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How Can We Have Civil Conversations With The Other Side?

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posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:28 PM
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The answer is we can't. There was a time when both sides wanted the same outcome, they just disagreed upon how to go about getting that outcome. Now it seems like we are a nation divided by what outcome we desire. If we don't have common goals then civil discourse doesn't really matter.




posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: loam

Yes, I believe you are right about that. Eliminated.

I beleive this is an error as well and there will be consequences long past my lifetime. I don't think people will be going quietly into that good night.

We've never had politicial cycles like we do right now. We've never had divides like we do now. 2020 is going to be interesting and possibly game changing.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
The answer is we can't. There was a time when both sides wanted the same outcome, they just disagreed upon how to go about getting that outcome. Now it seems like we are a nation divided by what outcome we desire. If we don't have common goals then civil discourse doesn't really matter.



I have to agree with this. Hell the first couple of pages show exactly why we can't. It's shameful, some of us want real discussion, want real thought and expression, want to discuss history and ramifications, want to discuss the future....

But some people are incapable of it.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

The problem is that change for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

I am not against change. If I was, I never would have lost weight, for example, but I need to be convinced that there is a real need for the change (the easy part), and then I need to be convinced that the proposed solution is actually going to meaningfully address the issue being changed in a way that is constructive and least harmful which is the real hard part. Unless you can convince me the cure isn't worse than the perceived disease, then I see no need to carry out *your* proposed change even if there may be a need for change.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Thanatos0042

I think we have. Try going back to the times around Lincoln's election. That's a scary thing to consider.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Thanatos0042

You are no longer a thing to be persuaded, but rather eliminated.

I maintain that the biggest error the left has made was to literally villainize the entire conservative base. It's beyond stupid, and the full consequences will likely reverberate for the next 20 years or beyond.

Moreover, we have never had in my lifetime an election cycle where that was true. 2020 will be a nightmare regardless of the outcome. Mark my words.


They made the error of thinking we were all dropping off the face of the earth dying. Some of us have quite a bit of life left yet.

But you cannot win votes from those you openly hate.

Therefore the only conclusion to be made is that they feel they don't need our votes. That we are irrelevant, and when you make a large group into the "other" like they have and then take steps to marginalize us in society by moving to remove our livelihoods from us for daring to not think like them, you put us into a corner.

How do you have productive discussions with people who do that? Why do you want to?



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

You may be right about that and the implication of that is a very scary thing to consider.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 04:52 AM
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Because the left doesnt want to hear about logic or statistics.
They are radical gamblers willing to take a bet on the country.

Everytime you try to have a logical conversation with a liberal it goes no where.

Money is free
The u.s. can help evey single person.

It's not hard to run your country conservatively and play it safe.

These liberals have radical ideas also known as liberal ideas.

Dont be liberal with your money
Dont be liberal with your sexuality

Conserve



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 06:14 AM
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The biggest problem is partisanship, which artificially divides us along with other labels like "left" and "right". It creates a tribalism mentality and people stop thinking for themselves. If people would stop viewing things through the lens of political parties, they would see things much clearer and see they have much common ground that would allow them to have reasonable discussions with one another. Partisanship is poison.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 06:49 AM
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There was a time when we could talk, have conversations, debate ideas......

But that time has gone..... There are two polarized sides now.....

Those who want socialism and those who will not tolerate it........ The middle is drown out on both sides

Sure there are those in the middle still, who want to figure this out, but it's clear they don't matter.... The media tells you so.....

You WILL believe a certain way or your voice doesn't count, or you're shut down.... Or your a racist or bigot...

They have cultivated this, raised it, watered and fed it for decades..... and soon they will be eaten by it
edit on 7/30/2019 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/30/2019 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 06:55 AM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
There was a time when we could talk, have conversations, debate ideas......

But that time has gone..... There are two polarized sides now.....

Those who want socialism and those who will not tolerate it........ The middle is drown out on both sides

Sure there are those in the middle still, who want to figure this out, but it's clear they don't matter.... The media tells you so.....

You WILL believe a certain way or your voice doesn't count, or you're shut down.... Or your a racist or bigot...

They have cultivated this, raised it, watered and fed it for decades..... and soon they will be eaten by it





You have bought into it hook line and sinker, read back to you yourself what you just wrote and then try and find a way to have a dialogue with it, you've already made up your mind are not willing to talk.

So whose going to kick this thing off again



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I've been laying out how to do it for a few pages now.

I told you. I'm not adverse to change, but there are a few things that must be done before I'll support it. The part where most people get stuck is in the fact that their solutions don't pass the smell test for me as things that will actually do something meaningful about the perceived problem while also doing the least harm.

Look at the ACA (Obamacare) for a good example. The reality was that very few were ever uninsured as compared to the larger US populace and many of those were uninsured by choice, not because they couldn't have gotten insurance or because they did not qualify for a program like Medicaid (yes, the numbers were done and out there). A simpler, cheaper solution would have addressed that cohort directly instead of a drastic overhaul of the entire system that ended up hurting far more people than it actually helped in terms of finances and coverage and care received.

In a lot of ways, the ACA broke things that weren't exactly broken or broke broken things worse. And where people who had read the actual bill brought up the problems that were seen even back then, they were called racists because the president at the time was black. There was no productive discussion on it. The march to go in to vote on it was made into some massive racial thing when it was really many people who paid far more attention to what was going to happen to them under the new law than lawmakers paid to reading the law themselves and those people were angry about how they were being sold out in the name of helping a very, very few.

So change for the sake of change isn't the answer.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I agree there change for the sake of it is pointless, still the only way to find solutions is through dialogue.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

I agree there change for the sake of it is pointless, still the only way to find solutions is through dialogue.


When most dialogue consists of calling someone who disagrees with you a Faux News, Trump cultist, racist, bigot, homophobe, Islamophobe, flyover, bitter clinger, moron, whatever slur they can think of (oh, yes, white supremacist Nazi, how could I forget), the dialogue is very, very short.

As I explained, who wants to have a conversation with people who do that? Why would you want to? People who come in with that attitude have already assumed they are intellectually and morally superior and are going to automatically discount everything that is said because of that attitude.

There are a few people on this site who don't take that tack. I can have productive dialogue with them.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 08:21 AM
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Civil conversation with liberals who daily call you a racist and accuse you of much much worse. Sorry, no thanks. Whenever they want to come back to the middle with reason and common sense they can try again. Seems like they are years away from that.



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Wrong...


The fact you lost weight is still “conservative “ because you are returning to a bygone era of perceived greatness (when you used to be in shape).


That is why “Make America great AGAIN” is rightwing.. your specifically telling the sheeple, “Don’t be afraid.. I’m not offering anytthing new.”



If I did not say so in my post , I meant to add the disclaimer that “that doesn’t mean every idea the left has is good..but that does mean EVERY good idea comes out of the left..


Which BY DEFINITION, means conservatives are wrong about EVERYTHING they want to keep the same, because we all agree nothing is perfect..



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Yup!!!

That is definitely worse than “they are murdering babies!”

I mean call me a baby murderer or pretend I’m running an elite pedophile ring before you EVER call me a racist..

Right??


Right??



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed




You have bought into it hook line and sinker,


Says the person who regularly engages in the very same hard line I was illustrating......


Perhaps you instead, should go back through your old posts and be honest with yourself before addressing the issue
.....



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: ketsuko

Wrong...


The fact you lost weight is still “conservative “ because you are returning to a bygone era of perceived greatness (when you used to be in shape).


That is why “Make America great AGAIN” is rightwing.. your specifically telling the sheeple, “Don’t be afraid.. I’m not offering anytthing new.”



If I did not say so in my post , I meant to add the disclaimer that “that doesn’t mean every idea the left has is good..but that does mean EVERY good idea comes out of the left..


Which BY DEFINITION, means conservatives are wrong about EVERYTHING they want to keep the same, because we all agree nothing is perfect..


Sweet gymnastics..... Where do you study



posted on Jul, 30 2019 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Prager had a good column at PJ today.

There are three questions you can ask a conservative to tell if they're racist or not:


Ask any white conservative, including one who supports Trump, the following three questions:

1) Do you have more in common with, and are you personally more comfortable in the company of, a white leftist or a black conservative?

2) Would you rather have nine white leftists or nine black conservatives on the U.S. Supreme Court?

3) Would you rather your child marry a black Christian conservative or a white non-Christian liberal?


For most conservatives, the values and beliefs are far, far more important than the ethnicity of the person. So we'd side with the conservative. We'll regularly put up Thomas Sowell against Paul Krugman because Sowell is more in line with the beliefs most of us have about the economy.

But for a racist, skin color is all that matters, and it will trump beliefs and politics every time.



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