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How Can We Have Civil Conversations With The Other Side?

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posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Lumenari

When your opposition literally defines you as Hitler, they quite logically aquire the moral obligation to 'deal' with you.

This is all going to go way beyond mere 'conversation' imo.




The sad part is I see the handwriting on the wall, at this point.

They lost a HUGE Progressive push when Hillary lost... it was the push that was going to take them over the hump, as it were.

So they're going to end up doing it the "other" way.

Intimidation, censoring, violence... to the point where they are going to get that spark that they need to fire up a hard civil war.

Just... unfortunate.

On the other hand, if the limb has gangrene, better to cut it off and live than let it fester till you die...

I'm feel sorry for the followers of the Democratic party.

But here we go....


edit on 28-7-2019 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

I feel sorry for all of us. In the end, there will be no winners.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:55 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

This is what happens when generations get far enough away from war, real war, that they forget what it really is. Some idiots decide it's not that big a deal and touch one off.

The last real war was WWII. We're about due for generations to learn the hard way that war is indeed hell. Too many people lack imagination and have to learn these things the hard way.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: DanDanDat

It's impossible have any conversations with the other side. The other side thinks their own opinions are facts. And other people's opinions are lies. Heck, they don't even respect the vote! This is not going to end well.


The best thing about this is that I can't tell if you're talking about the left or the right.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Lumenari

This is what happens when generations get far enough away from war, real war, that they forget what it really is. Some idiots decide it's not that big a deal and touch one off.

The last real war was WWII. We're about due for generations to learn the hard way that war is indeed hell. Too many people lack imagination and have to learn these things the hard way.


I guess that's what frustrates me about the left.

I've killed for my country, been shot for my country... I know what combat actually is.

For people that don't understand it but yet hope for it in our own country so that they can try to achieve some hopeless dream of a Hegelian utopia...

It's insanity.

And as Loam points out, there are no actual winners.

We all lose.

~sigh~



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 10:05 PM
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I like the fact that ever since just last week, one ‘side’ (who have been VEHEMENTLY partisan) has all of a sudden began the “its both sides” rhetoric.

Gee I wonder what happened?? (Yet another total fail, as expected)

Like another post said. When you’re labelled as racist for NOT being racist, or labelled nazi for NOT being a nazi and even worse labelled fascist by actual fascists then the ‘conversation’ is already over.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 11:45 PM
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This didn't go as well as i hoped it would.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 11:59 PM
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edit on 29-7-2019 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

You tried.




posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:30 AM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat
This didn't go as well as i hoped it would.


..... There was an attempt .

One day



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:08 AM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat
This didn't go as well as i hoped it would.


I’ve just been sitting reading the comments thinking how you probably are shaking your head.
I was going to chime in but then it started to get heated so I don’t want any part of that.

But I do agree with your OP dan.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:53 AM
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I come on ATS in order to converse with conservatives here and learn their viewpoints. I will engage in constructive arguments that I try to keep civil in order for my "liberal" ideas and their "conservative" ideas to troubleshoot each other and find and correct errors in each of the philosophical "codes."

I read a lot of news on Reddit and CNN that is left-leaning. While it is factual, it is biased and seems to leave out a lot of information. The left seems to be composed of intellectuals these days, who are interested in laying out logical arguments and looking at facts and data and science. There is the occasional opinion piece, but they are clearly labeled as opinion pieces, most of the time. One vital piece of information that has been left out of left-wing news is the cost of Medicare for All. Sometimes the left-wing media is idealistic and not trained in economics.

I notice that the right-leaning sources feel more emotional, are also biased, and don't seem to be so factual this time around. Yes, I am serious that they are emotional. Right-wing media often reads like some sort of emotional/philosophical rant or fear-mongering or propaganda instead of news. The left-wing sources seem to be highly engaged in reporting facts and logical arguments, but they will sometimes leave out important information. The right-wing sources also seem to be highly engaged in using psychological tricks to brainwash viewers, for example, reporting on that one time there was a transgender sex offender in order to fear-monger instead of looking at the overall data on how they compare to the overall population. In the right-wing media mind, it would be better to get every scary detail about the one instance on television in order to have the most emotional impact and promote their agenda than to look at facts and data and come to a logical conclusion.

I read other places, like Fox News, The Wall Street Journal, BBC, and some news apps on my phone, one of them goes out of the way to produce sources from both sides and label them accordingly. I had to start using it because I was getting too much bias to the left in my Reddit feed and online news.

Anyways, I have to come to ATS to engage in conversation, Reddit seems to have evolved into a place where each subreddit has its own social norms and it is easy to end up talking to a bunch of people who agree with you without ever seeing other perspectives. Also, you can get seriously downvoted if you enter the wrong subreddit (one that isn't aligned with your own take on life) and post a comment.

I am in search of factual and scientific information that can help produce coherent conservative arguments, economics is a good place to look for that sort of thing. It is also good to get a conservative perspective.

I might try just listening and not even stating my own opinions.
edit on 29amMon, 29 Jul 2019 02:11:37 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

If we had communism in America we would all be dead.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


How can we have a conversation?!?!?! The leftist political agenda is being taught through MOST public schools and media. They are taught not to listen because the right is so evil that it can't see that its evil.... where as from the right, we think what the left is doing is evil but not because they are evil but because they are stupidly following the blind.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat
This didn't go as well as i hoped it would.


I'm not sure what you were expecting.

You can try all you want to converse, but it quickly turns into hyperbole. It's either all or nothing. No one wants to hear that there are very much certain things some of us aren't willing to give up.

For instance, I'd love to help the poor and fix health care, but I am very much not at all open to doing it through more taxes. I feel like I am taxed more than I should be as it is. I also feel like the politicians *never* spend the money I send them now wisely, so why should I approve any more new spending.

Not to mention, as I am in the tax liable bracket, a lot of people think I'm rich, but really my life is difficult enough as it is. Just being in the brackets that get taxed doesn't mean your life is financial easy street. At this level, you're responsible for everything and get no help for anything. None of these programs will ever help you, so you end up paying for a bunch of other people through force and then paying for your own family on top of it all with the crumbs left over after the government takes to provide.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

Do you know why the left leaning stuff seems factual and logical while the right leaning stuff seems emotional?

Because it fits you personal world-view schema and bias.

Now consider very, very carefully that for every right-leaning person here, you can flip-flip what you said 180 degrees and it will be equally right.

Then consider that you maybe aren't as fair minded as you think you are. You're only about halfway there if you haven't realized what I told you yet because you aren't self-aware of your own mental bias.

That isn't to say your personal schema is right or wrong, only that you are unaware of your own bias. Until you own it and admit it and understand that people of goodwill and intellect can and do go entirely the other way, you aren't ready to engage in deep discussions.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 08:24 AM
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It's no longer possible to have civil discussions in our society. Society has become too fragmented and consumed by a large number of people who apparently have no ability to apply critical thinking skills or are simply too emotional or shutdown to allow truth to seep into their lives. Where it really gets strange is the majority of those who act out that way need change the most, change that benefits all Americans. They continue voting for those who care nothing for them, time after time. I guess it's easier to pretend everything is hunky dory than face reality.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:09 PM
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...I am an old white dude...I've tried listening, but I tune out once I get preached at. It's one reason why I don't go to church.

After all, I get tired of being told that because I didn't support Hillary and the Democrats I'm:

Evil.
Racist.
Misogynistic.
Sexist.
Capitalistic.
Homophobic.
Transphobic.
That I'm anti-immigrant.
That I need to die.
That my family needs to die.
That I've got blood on my hands because I am not anti-2nd Amendement.
That I need to give all I own to immigrants, natives and pay restitution for everyone ever wronged by a white person.

I've gotten that a lot...so I tune people out once they start down the path. Doesn't matter I don't believe I am any of those things...it only matters what they want to believe about me.

So, I'm not sure there can be a real conversation across the divide on a larger scale. Sure, on a small or individual scale, but not on a larger one. You can't come together if one side percieves you are evil and need to be destroyed.

I'll say this though, it's soured my opinion of even trying to talk to those with opposing viewpoints. And I think the time for compromising is done - every time you do, they push further. Compromise is supposed to be on both sides, but it doesn't seem to go that way anymore.

Hopefully I'm wrong...but I'm not very hopeful.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

I’m sure that would be a fix if you were EVER going to get the conservative side to listen to new ideas...


That has literally been the way of things for all of human history...


On repeat you will have the old establishment fight tooth and nail to resist change....and doing WHATEVER is required to get enough of the peasants to help keep them in power..

Propaganda, buy offs and shifting blame for societies ills from those who make the rules and hold all the wealth, to those who make no rules and hold no wealth...


And yes it is always the conservative side.....

That for damn sure doesn’t mean the liberals are always right, but, assuming we all agree nothing is perfect.. the conservatives are always wrong...


By definition....


If whatever system we point at is not perfect, and your the ones arguing we should not fix it .. your wrong.. lol


Now that doesn’t mean every fix is progress, but notice is never progress..



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Thanatos0042

You are no longer a thing to be persuaded, but rather eliminated.

I maintain that the biggest error the left has made was to literally villainize the entire conservative base. It's beyond stupid, and the full consequences will likely reverberate for the next 20 years or beyond.

Moreover, we have never had in my lifetime an election cycle where that was true. 2020 will be a nightmare regardless of the outcome. Mark my words.




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