U.S. Citizen Detained For Weeks, Nearly Deported By Immigration Officials

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

lol
ancestors
how far back?
ancestors from the fertile crescent?
out of curiosity of course.....

also what punishment?
being detained until id is established?
not really "punishment" now is it?


how far are you willing to go to justify falsifying documents?

rediculous

I am not in favor of random border checks
I am also not in favor of people making fake documents

You people attempting to twist this into something it is not to vilify ice is hilarious
any other laws you people dont like and are willing to overlook to justify your stupid politics?

Calm down dude, its a simple question, I'm not trying to 'gotcha' or anything. In my example above, you are detained for a damn long time because odds are your ancestors came to the US a hundred years ago or more. I'm just trying to flip the scenario for the sake of context to examine how you would feel in a seemingly unjust/unfair situation.

If it helps lets just pick a number, say, 4 months. Would you be ok with being locked up for 4 months while whatever incompetent/underfunded government drone lazily hunts for corroborating evidence to clear up the misunderstanding?

a reply to: Wayfarer

Calm down dude

lol
like you would know

In my example above, you are detained for a damn long time because odds are your ancestors came to the US a hundred years ago or more. I'm just trying to flip the scenario for the sake of context to examine how you would feel in a seemingly unjust/unfair situation.

no
you propose a ridiculous comparison to justify a mom falsifying a kids birth certificate
you attempt to make the authorities at fault when in reality it is the mother who is the criminal

If it helps lets just pick a number, say, 4 months. Would you be ok with being locked up for 4 months while whatever incompetent/underfunded government drone lazily hunts for corroborating evidence to clear up the misunderstanding?

what incompetent/underfunded government drone are you speaking of?
more ridiculousness in an attempt to justify crime
pathetic

ps
there would be no "misunderstanding" if the mother had not falsified the birth certificate
funny how none of you want to acknowledge that simple fact

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

Calm down dude

lol
like you would know

In my example above, you are detained for a damn long time because odds are your ancestors came to the US a hundred years ago or more. I'm just trying to flip the scenario for the sake of context to examine how you would feel in a seemingly unjust/unfair situation.

no
you propose a ridiculous comparison to justify a mom falsifying a kids birth certificate
you attempt to make the authorities at fault when in reality it is the mother who is the criminal

If it helps lets just pick a number, say, 4 months. Would you be ok with being locked up for 4 months while whatever incompetent/underfunded government drone lazily hunts for corroborating evidence to clear up the misunderstanding?

what incompetent/underfunded government drone are you speaking of?
more ridiculousness in an attempt to justify crime
pathetic

ps
there would be no "misunderstanding" if the mother had not falsified the birth certificate
funny how none of you want to acknowledge that simple fact

I'm referencing specifically your criminal ancestors. Why are you so keen to ignore that fact in lieu of your argument against the kid and his erstwhile mother? You and that kid both have relatives that had inconsistencies in documentation, so why is it totally cool when your relatives did it, but righteously criminal when this kids mother did it?

a reply to: Wayfarer

I'm referencing specifically your criminal ancestors.

nice try
my mother did not falsify my birth certificate
shame on you for suggesting so

you in no way reference any fact in your delusional attempt to justify criminal behavior

nice try tho

a reply to: Wayfarer

Can you tell me which of my ancestors were criminals with inconsistent documentation?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

I'm referencing specifically your criminal ancestors.

nice try
my mother did not falsify my birth certificate
shame on you for suggesting so

you in no way reference any fact in your delusional attempt to justify criminal behavior

nice try tho

Uh, did you fail to catch the part where I proffered the example as a hypothetical in my first response? I know you are capable of empathy, and I know you are capable of putting yourself in a victims shoes. My endeavor here has merely been to find an example your comfortable enough with answering from that perspective.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

Can you tell me which of my ancestors were criminals with inconsistent documentation?

I'd be happy to try and track down any info on family history (I've got a couple open ancestry accounts for when I did my own genealogical research), but of course I'd need personal information to do so and I can't honestly believe you'd want to give that out (and I wouldn't recommend you do so anyways just out of prudence).

I spoke with another individual earlier last year who I had referenced for my own family tree research and apparently the overwhelming majority of immigrants at the turn of the 20th century and earlier had almost all contained inconsistencies and irregularities in their immigration application forms (since we've got plenty of records), that today would bring about immediate deportation/family separation and various other actions that are being referenced in this thread (hence why I chose that as the hypothetical example).

a reply to: Wayfarer

So you are simply making false statements then. Hint, I have the signatures of my ancestors coming legally into Ellis Island. So go spew your nonsensical progressive talking points elsewhere.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

So you are simply making false statements then. Hint, I have the signatures of my ancestors coming legally into Ellis Island. So go spew your nonsensical progressive talking points elsewhere.

Its not nonsensical, nor is it false. Furthermore, I'm not sure why you seem so angry about discussing the subject; I have not attacked or belittled you, so I'm failing to see why you feel the need to respond so negatively (I'm not personally hurt mind you, it just takes away from any points you are trying to make).

I applaud you for having a copy of the intake forms of your ancestors. Unfortunately, there are more fields on the form than just a signature line. Just like today with immigration forms and also with the OP's reference, inconsistencies in said forms are being used as a basis for immediate deportation and family separation (even if its not the subject in question who was responsible for said errors).

If you'd like you can post the form with the name/portions scrubbed out of the image and I/we can take a look to make sure they didn't mis-spell or put incorrect information in the wrong fields.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Uh, did you fail to catch the part where I proffered the example as a hypothetical in my first response?

yeah
its ridiculous

I know you are capable of empathy, and I know you are capable of putting yourself in a victims shoes.

yep
and I posted it was a crappy thing for his mother to do

That in no way makes it the fault of ice, as some have attempted to do

Were the subject approached in a honest manor perhaps my replies would be different; it has not been.

Did it suck that he was detained? Yes it did.
Could this have been avoided? Yes it could.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

Uh, did you fail to catch the part where I proffered the example as a hypothetical in my first response?

yeah
its ridiculous

I know you are capable of empathy, and I know you are capable of putting yourself in a victims shoes.

yep
and I posted it was a crappy thing for his mother to do

That in no way makes it the fault of ice, as some have attempted to do

Were the subject approached in a honest manor perhaps my replies would be different; it has not been.

Did it suck that he was detained? Yes it did.
Could this have been avoided? Yes it could.

Ok, I'm glad you were able to express whats been frustrating you in this thread. I will endeavor to not be dishonest or disingenuous with you in this discussion.

As I said I'm not trying to catch you in some kind of argumentative trap. I know you have sympathy for the gentlemen in question.

I'm using a hypothetical for reference because you are not in a position that has to deal with what the exact circumstance the boy has had to, so I pose a scenario that has some relevance and that I think you could imagine as taking place, merely because I am curious and value your opinion (as someone who I don't agree with and wish/seek to understand) as to what you would think about the situation if you were in his shoes (as the immigration form example I used could have in some bizarre reality affected you).

I know I would feel unfairly treated to be punished for a mistake that I didn't directly make. I would want to work to eliminate lineage affects on immigrants for that reason. That's just my take on it. I'd love to hear yours.

a reply to: Wayfarer

You started with the claim our ancestors were illegals with bad documentation. Then play the victim when people call you out on it. Hilarious.

I applaud you for having a copy of the intake forms of your ancestors. Unfortunately, there are more fields on the form than just a signature line.

Please tell me the form they had to fill out and what it entailed. I will wait.

a reply to: Wayfarer
So he was able to contact someone and get his attorney to bring the documentation to get him released.
How that was done with "no phone calls" I will never understand.

www.cbsnews.com...

His lawyer, Claudia Galan, brought necessary documentation, including his birth certificate, to border officials, but they continued to hold him. She told the newspaper it appears he was detained due to conflicting information on a visa his mother had used for him as a child. Finally, on Tuesday, Galan announced Galicia had been released.

It also appears his attorney was given information by border officials, so while not ideal the system worked.

Were I "in his position" I would have done the same thing I guess. Not a lot more than he can do than have an attorney work with the authorities to verify his identification.
He was 18 so he was not a child and responsible for himself, which makes the actions of his mother even worse.
He should be mad at his mom for screwing him.
The 23 day detention I have a problem with. Did he just sit and not speak to anyone? How did he make contact with his attorney? I think there is more to this than the press is letting on. Just my opinion.

Point of fact, I have been "detained" by the authorities tho it was for a few minutes. They told me I had an active warrant and put me in their car. When they checked again before taking me to the station, they found they had input the wrong information into their system. They released me, apologized and that was the end of it. That was at a "crime" scene where one person was already arrested tho, not a border checkpoint.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

You started with the claim our ancestors were illegals with bad documentation. Then play the victim when people call you out on it. Hilarious.

I applaud you for having a copy of the intake forms of your ancestors. Unfortunately, there are more fields on the form than just a signature line.

Please tell me the form they had to fill out and what it entailed. I will wait.

Its funny? Well I'll take a laugh where I can but I wasn't trying to be humorous. The claim about ancestors being illegal (as I assume you're referencing) is the hypothetical situation I posited. As a hypothetical, its just a thought experiment and not an actual real reference, so I'm not sure why you think I'm playing the victim (or need to) over something so trivial.

The ship passenger manifest (what I'm colloquially referencing as a form) for immigrants arriving at Ellis Island at the turn of the 20th century would be what is checked against their verbally reported information to the immigration officer to confirm if they were who they said they were when they arrived. I can't really give direct reference to the amount of issues caused during this stage in the process, but anecdotally it seems less than 10% of folks were detained for inconsistencies or medical reasons primarily because that's all the US was equipped to sequester at that time.

Now, leveraging that information hypothetically, if we apply the rules of whats transpiring today to those immigrants retroactively to punish you or others for ancestral errors then we can arrive at a scenario wherein even folks like you or I (who at least at this time have no fear of ICE visits or deportation) can imagine ourselves victim to these effects.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

Were I "in his position" I would have done the same thing I guess. Not a lot more than he can do than have an attorney work with the authorities to verify his identification.
He was 18 so he was not a child and responsible for himself, which makes the actions of his mother even worse.
He should be mad at his mom for screwing him.
The 23 day detention I have a problem with. Did he just sit and not speak to anyone? How did he make contact with his attorney? I think there is more to this than the press is letting on. Just my opinion.

Super stoked to hear your take on it, thanks for sharing!

I agree its excessively hard to get all the details on this (as even the articles are going on often incomplete or unverified information). I know I too would be pretty upset over being locked up for 23 days as a citizen getting my citizenship proven.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Keep your hypotheticals to yourself. Especially when you phrase them as factual. If one of my ancestors lied to get into the US and was deported I would say they got what they deserved.

What strikes me is how Leftists argue against the State and immigration and citizenship laws yet still want the state to control everything. We need the state for welfare, free healthcare etc but please no rules - we like to make those up as we go along.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I think it was 23 days because he had multiple identities thanks to his mother. His birth certificate says it belongs to someone else because his mother lied on it and put false names. His ID belongs to someone who is a Mexican national according to official paperwork.

His mother said her son can not get a passport because of all the identities they can not confirm he is a US citizen. So in 18 years she could not prove who he was in order to get a passport, but BP is bad for taking 23 days?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

Keep your hypotheticals to yourself. Especially when you phrase them as factual. If one of my ancestors lied to get into the US and was deported I would say they got what they deserved.

They weren't phrased as factual; at most you can accuse me of being lazy because I don't want to retype 'hypothetical' in front of the same referenced scenario a dozen times in a row.

Also, it seems you've misunderstanding the objective of the hypothetical. It wasn't posed to get your opinion on how you'd feel if your ancestors were arrested for errors, but rather how you'd feel if today you were arrested for one of your ancestors errors.

I have no desire to fight with you or get into some smarmy back and forth verbal jab fight. If you don't want to answer the question just say so and I'll respect your wishes politely and stop asking. I genuinely want to develop my empathy for you and those who share your views, and I'm trying to get your viewpoints on scenarios that to me seem black and white. I realize that I think the way I do because I am unable to rationalize the constructs that lead to your viewpoints, and I am keen to expand my understanding to both better communicate with those I don't agree with and to learn where we can meet in the middle. If you feel like it is unfair but still correct that you be punished for your ancestors(or if the hypothetical is too much of an issue for you, just assume you are the kid who's mother #ed up the forms) error I really would like to know why.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I know I too would be pretty upset over being locked up for 23 days as a citizen getting my citizenship proven.

There has to be more than we are hearing for this to go on.
From what I can find to read he would have been assigned a "deportation officer" if he was detained.
So either he did no cooperate, or his story is bs.
www.nilc.org...

In most cases, Immigration must decide within 48 hours whether to put you into immigration proceedings (in front of a judge), and whether to keep you in custody or to release you on bond. After 72 hours, Immigration must give you a Notice to Appear (NTA). This is the notice that provides you with the information about your hearing before an Immigration Judge.

or perhaps it took that amount of time for his mother to come clean and admit she falsified his documents?

I doubt there was anything dubious going on with ice.