Science has provided evidence of the non physical universe

More evidence that shows the universe has a non physical nature and you can read my thread There's no objective universe all is vibration and you can see that what we call the physical universe can be boiled down to vibrations.

First let me start with a quote from Nikola Tesla:

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”

That day is here and more Scientist are embracing things like Panpsychism. Let me take you through some of the evidence. Here's a paper from 2013.

The wave-function is real but nonphysical: A view from counterfactual quantum cryptography

Counterfactual quantum cryptography (CQC) is used here as a tool to assess the status of the quantum state: Is it real/ontic (an objective state of Nature) or epistemic (a state of the observer's knowledge)? In contrast to recent approaches to wave function ontology, that are based on realist models of quantum theory, here we recast the question as a problem of communication between a sender (Bob), who uses interaction-free measurements, and a receiver (Alice), who observes an interference pattern in a Mach-Zehnder set-up. An advantage of our approach is that it allows us to define the concept of "physical", apart from "real". In instances of counterfactual quantum communication, reality is ascribed to the interaction-freely measured wave function (ψ) because Alice deterministically infers Bob's measurement. On the other hand, ψ does not correspond to the physical transmission of a particle because it produced no detection on Bob's apparatus. We therefore conclude that the wave function in this case (and by extension, generally) is real, but not physical. Characteristically for classical phenomena, the reality and physicality of objects are equivalent, whereas for quantum phenomena, the former is strictly weaker. As a concrete application of this idea, the nonphysical reality of the wavefunction is shown to be the basic nonclassical phenomenon that underlies the security of CQC.

arxiv.org...

What this is saying is that information can travel between Alice and Bob WITHOUT a physical medium!! Here's an article from 2015:

Counterfactual quantum-information transfer without transmitting any physical particles

We demonstrate quantum information can be transferred between two distant participants without any physical particles traveling between them. The key procedure of the counterfactual scheme is to entangle two nonlocal qubits with each other without interaction, so the scheme can also be used to generate nonlocal entanglement counterfactually. We here illustrate the scheme by using flying photon qubits and Rydberg atom qubits assisted by a mesoscopic atomic ensemble. Unlike the typical teleportation, the present scheme can transport an unknown qubit in a nondeterministic manner without prior entanglement sharing or classical communication between the two distant participants.

www.nature.com...

Again, information transfer with no physical particles! Here's another one from 2017:

Direct counterfactual communication via quantum Zeno effect

Intuition from our everyday lives gives rise to the belief that information exchanged between remote parties is carried by physical particles. Surprisingly, in a recent theoretical study [Salih H, Li ZH, Al-Amri M, Zubairy MS (2013) Phys Rev Lett 110:170502], quantum mechanics was found to allow for communication, even without the actual transmission of physical particles. From the viewpoint of communication, this mystery stems from a (nonintuitive) fundamental concept in quantum mechanics—wave-particle duality. All particles can be described fully by wave functions. To determine whether light appears in a channel, one refers to the amplitude of its wave function. However, in counterfactual communication, information is carried by the phase part of the wave function. Using a single-photon source, we experimentally demonstrate the counterfactual communication and successfully transfer a monochrome bitmap from one location to another by using a nested version of the quantum Zeno effect.

www.pnas.org...

I have one more from 2019:

In quantum mechanics, the pigeon and the letter do not always travel together

In standard communication the pigeon always carries the message; the information is linked to a physical entity/particle. Counter to intuition, in a new counterfactual communication protocol published in NPJ Quantum Information, scientists from the University of Vienna, the University of Cambridge and the MIT have experimentally demonstrated that in quantum mechanics this is not always true, thereby contradicting a crucial premise of communication theory.

Whether it is pigeons in the air, electrons in a telegraph wire, radio waves from a cell phone or single photons in an optical fiber, in standard communication, there is always a particle or wave involved in the information exchange between two parties; say Alice and Bob. However, in quantum mechanics, one can send information from Alice to Bob while the particle or wave involved in this information exchange travels from Bob to Alice.

In an international collaboration led by Philip Walther, scientist from the University of Vienna teamed up with the University of Cambridge and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology to implement a new counterfactual communication protocol. In standard photonic communication, the information is encoded in single photons; thus, the information and the single photons travel in the same direction. However, in counterfactual communication there is no carrier found travelling in the same direction as the message. In this implementation, single photons would travel from Alice to Bob while information would travel from Bob to Alice.

What carries the message then? Even before receiving the single photon, Bob prepares his setup according to the information bit that he wants to send, either 0 or 1. In this way, he sends the single photon back if he wants to send a bit 1 or keeps the photon in his laboratory if he wishes to send a bit 0. Counterintuitively, the Zeno effect, which was first discovered by cryptanalyst Alan Turing, enables Bob to send the photon back without actually interacting with it. Alice will then interpret Bob's message by observing whether the sent photon is returned or not. Thus, the presence and the absence of single photons is enough to encode any message.

In previous counterfactual communication protocols, there remains some uncertainty as to whether Bob interacted with the photons or not. In this new implementation the two main drawbacks of earlier implementations, weak trace and postselection, have now been completely overcome. "In our implementation, there is no trace of the photon travelling in the same direction as the information and we are able to compensate the message errors without discarding information bits." says I. Alonso Calafell, one of the authors from the publication.

phys.org...

Here's a link to the paper:

www.nature.com...

This is HUGE and shatters yet again the myth of objective physical reality

a reply to: neoholographic

Fantastic information, thank you for sharing.

An Esoteric order I studied through said something along the lines of the relationship between science and religion being akin to temple construction where; the timber scaffolding is temporary and guides the way whilst the stone work is building upwards.

Thanks again, this is what ATS was made for!

a reply to: neoholographic

I don't know how "huge" of a breakthrough this really is.

EMR, such as photons or other types of emergy, has been known to propgate through a vacuum, devoid of physical particles for some time now.

How is this different than what you are proposing?

a reply to: Mach2

We're not talking about energy propagating through a vacuum but information going from point A to point B without a physical mechanism. There's no energy or trace particle transmitting the information.

Yes it's huge, but of course it will be downplayed by materialist because how can you have this all or nothing material world if information can be transmitted From Alice to Bob without a physical medium?

originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
a reply to: neoholographic

Fantastic information, thank you for sharing.

An Esoteric order I studied through said something along the lines of the relationship between science and religion being akin to temple construction where; the timber scaffolding is temporary and guides the way whilst the stone work is building upwards.

Thanks again, this is what ATS was made for!

No problem.

I agree with your analogy.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Mach2

We're not talking about energy propagating through a vacuum but information going from point A to point B without a physical mechanism. There's no energy or trace particle transmitting the information.

Yes it's huge, but of course it will be downplayed by materialist because how can you have this all or nothing material world if information can be transmitted From Alice to Bob without a physical medium?

How do you know there is no energy involved?

Even if I take your premise at face value, such as in the case of telepathy for example, I see no reason to beleive that it goes beyond the physical realm. We certainly don't have a complete definitive understanding of everything involved in the universe, or even our own sentience for that matter.

Just because someone can't comprehend things with our limited understanding of the physical world doesn't mean we have to invent non physical ways to to reconcile them.

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Mach2

We're not talking about energy propagating through a vacuum but information going from point A to point B without a physical mechanism. There's no energy or trace particle transmitting the information.

Yes it's huge, but of course it will be downplayed by materialist because how can you have this all or nothing material world if information can be transmitted From Alice to Bob without a physical medium?

How do you know there is no energy involved?

Even if I take your premise at face value, such as in the case of telepathy for example, I see no reason to beleive that it goes beyond the physical realm. We certainly don't have a complete definitive understanding of everything involved in the universe, or even our own sentience for that matter.

Just because someone can't comprehend things with our limited understanding of the physical world doesn't mean we have to invent non physical ways to to reconcile them.

What? Because there's no evidence that energy was involved. There's no evidence that trace photons were involved.

This is your wishful thinking. If you think energy was involved, provide the evidence. It's not my job to prove your asinine argument.

I linked to papers from 2013 to 2019. Read them and find evidence to support your assertion.

It's not my job to prove a negative. It's like saying the universe is formed by entangled Boltzmann Brain's. Then I say prove to me that it's not. That's just idiotic.

Like I said, if you think that energy caused this an all of the Researchers are idiots who carried out these experiments, show me the evidence.

a reply to: neoholographic

You links cite no evidence either. The first one references a siplificatoon of "protocols", and the second talks extensively about a theory.

This is NOT evidence, whatsoever. Its a thought exercise, a premise without substance.

Feel free to believe what you want, but the scientific method relies on real repeatable results. I don't see that here.

Im familiar with the concept of quantum emtanglement, and it is very interesting, as is the information you provided, but don't purport that any of it is "proven", because it isn't.

a reply to: Mach2

You can't be serious.

You said this isn't evidence. Of course it is. They carried out these experiments. This is how you get observable evidence. One experiment transmitted a monochrome bitmap from one location to another.

NEWSFLASH!

This is EVIDENCE that information can be transmitted from one location to another without a physical medium.

Intuition from our everyday lives gives rise to the belief that information exchanged between remote parties is carried by physical particles. Surprisingly, in a recent theoretical study [Salih H, Li ZH, Al-Amri M, Zubairy MS (2013) Phys Rev Lett 110:170502], quantum mechanics was found to allow for communication, even without the actual transmission of physical particles. From the viewpoint of communication, this mystery stems from a (nonintuitive) fundamental concept in quantum mechanics—wave-particle duality. All particles can be described fully by wave functions. To determine whether light appears in a channel, one refers to the amplitude of its wave function. However, in counterfactual communication, information is carried by the phase part of the wave function. Using a single-photon source, we experimentally demonstrate the counterfactual communication and successfully transfer a monochrome bitmap from one location to another by using a nested version of the quantum Zeno effect.

phys.org...

Tell me, what magical energy that nobody knows about but you is the phase part of the wave function?

This is basic stuff. For you to say there's no evidence is just asinine.

originally posted by: Mach2
a reply to: neoholographic

I don't know how "huge" of a breakthrough this really is.

EMR, such as photons or other types of emergy, has been known to propgate through a vacuum, devoid of physical particles for some time now.

How is this different than what you are proposing?

That and the very nature of dimensions (not alternate ones, or branes) but 2d, 3d, 4d etc, show us that there is an invisible nature to reality. There is also the microcosm as you've mentioned, and then the macrocosm. What if the structure of something so immense is fundamentally empty 'space' between atoms.

We are only able to perceive a slither of anything. We exist on a sheet of canvas that all of reality passes through as if sunlight on a curtain, illuminating only that which is close to us, providing us creatures with sensory organs designed to exist only on this planet, the ability to see...

I am always reminded of Battlestar Galatica when I consider our limited ability to witness reality...

I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!

But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I’m a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I’m trapped in this absurd body! And why? Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way!

Brother Cavil.. Dean Stockwell, great actor.

Scientist are lovely people. They put so much effort in it their work that it looks painfully overwhelming. Nevertheless the universe is a thing of its own nature, not of our mind-perception nature and its just our inability to describe it with the tools we have. So it is more of a linguistic question than a philosophical or theoretical question: "what the universe is". Even "if" we know... we won't know, instead we will just run in circles trying to name the beaver a cat and the cat beaver, without realising that it matters not, for if we cut the words out it remains just a creature. A creature like the universe itself, one which is met and felt, thus realised fully. And if realised fully in its genuine potential, it looses its capacity for observation, thus becomes what it really is - indescribable.

a reply to: neoholographic

That's because what 'appears to be' a vast Universe with various localities, is almost certainly actually a singularity collapsing in on itself (which paradoxically is how we end up with the illusion of distance between spaces, because within the singularity collapse it expands inwards).

Everything would seem to exist in 1 spot.

Think of the X Y Z Cartesian coordinate system:


Note the distance towards infinity from ANY location plotted on the graph is EQUAL to the distance to infinity from any other location you might plot. This indicates that Every location is the exact center of the Universe; therefore there is only 1 location despite the illusion of multiple distinct locations.

Remember the "beginning" of the Universe was thought to be a singularity exploding as a "Big Bang" emanating the currently visible Universe - but because of gravity - if we imagine all matter in the Universe to be in one location it would have to be a mega black hole (we are, after all, combining every black hole, star, planet, and spec of dust into one little infinitesimally small spot - so it should collapse inwards rather than explode outwards - but since there is no limit to how small of a space we can divide 2 distances into - than it expands inwardly infinitely).

So yes, there is only 1 location in the Universe - right here.
This, as I see it, ought to explain Quantum Entanglement:

Quantum entanglement is a physical phenomenon that occurs when pairs or groups of particles are generated, interact, or share spatial proximity in ways such that the quantum state of each particle cannot be described independently of the state of the others, even when the particles are separated by a large distance.

a reply to: neoholographic

Which incidentally was the gist of what I was getting at in this thread that I'm sure you remember from not too long ago Universal String Singularity.

That's why I brought up the old '1 particle theory' because it touches so closely on the concept.

I'm so glad to be back here at ATS with you guys/gals!
I really missed reading/discussing all this stuff with yall!!
So much fun!!

Science can't prove nothing non physical simply because there's no evidence for it.

The present is a memory in the future.

The quantum entanglement of subatomic particles demonstrated in both gedanken experiments and real experiments do NOT confirm the claim that the universe is non-physical. This is a misinterpretation. What they prove is that the universe is not governed by classical physics but is subject to a non-local connectivity that cannot be caused by transmission of energy travelling at a finite speed because this connectivity is instantaneous. No wave/particle propagation of an information-carrying signal is involved, and so Einstein's Special Relativity is NOT violated.

A better candidate for the claim that theoretical physics has proven the non-physical nature of the universe is the fact that E8xE8' heterotic superstring theory, one of the five classes of superstrings, predicts that matter is confined to one of two parallel 10-d space-time sheets separated by a small gap that extends in the 10th dimension of space predicted by supergravity (and, more generally, M-theory). Quantum mechanics applied to spinless strings requires space-time to have 26 dimensions. Imposing supersymmetry cuts this down to 11 dimensions and eliminates the tachyon states predicted by quantum mechanics for strings without spin. In E8xE8' heterotic superstring theory, E8-singlet states occupy one sheet and E8'-singlet states are confined to the parallel sheet. This implies that there are two ever-separated universes, both occupying the same 9-d space of superstrings but never the complete 10-d space rquired by M-theory. Being singlet states with respect to the other unified symmetry group operating in the twin universe (although in the form of its broken-down subgroups) matter occupying one universe is invisible to that existing in the other (it emits and absorbs no light) and is incapable of interacting with it except through the gravitational force, which acts across the narrow gap, the width of this gap setting its strength through the magnitude of the Newtonion gravitational constant. Everything that exists in the so-called "shadow matter" universe governed by E8' is invisible to everything that occupies the ordinary matter universe governed by E8. This is the main source of dark matter.

Consciousness functions in various levels of reality beyond 26-d space-time. I have shown (see here) that 91 levels are mapped out by the Kabbalistic Tree of Life and the Hindu Tantric Sri Yanta, as well as by other examples of sacred geometry. Physical space-time is mapped by the lowest 7 levels. There are 84 super-physical levels. Some of these, such as "Nirvana" and the "Kingdom of Heaven", are known to the world's religions. Others are so transcendental (cosmic) in scale that they have not been identified by religions for the simple reason that no one in history ever reached these evolutionary states of consciousness. However, mathematics has no difficulty in predicting them, only in describing them.

In conclusion, the "non-physical universe" has two levels of meaning which must not be confused because they represent entirely different categories:
1. non-physical in the experiential sense that, although having mass, it has properties that do not affect scientific instruments. This is the E8-singlet states of shadow matter that occupy the parallel universe predicted by E8xE8' heterotic superstring theory;
2. non-physical in a purely metaphysical sense. These are the higher realms of consciousness, some labelled "heaven", etc by religion, that exist outside of the space-time continuum.

P.S. Please do not reply by pointing out that no sign of supersymmetry was detected by the latest experiments at CERN, throwing doubt on superstring theory. There are good reasons for this that do not discredit supersymmetry and superstrings, e.g., supersymmetry does NOT apply to quarks because they are made up of more fundamental, yet-to-be-discovered particles to which it DOES apply.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Mach2

We're not talking about energy propagating through a vacuum but information going from point A to point B without a physical mechanism. There's no energy or trace particle transmitting the information.

Yes it's huge, but of course it will be downplayed by materialist because how can you have this all or nothing material world if information can be transmitted From Alice to Bob without a physical medium?

the act of witching or dowsing, for underground water sources for example, involves the crossing of two metal rods - one each thin, metal rod held in either hand

there is No particle or photon being transmitted or received...Yet 'information' is received from some source which is recognized as 'crossed metal rods' directly above the hidden object/water source...


dig up a You-Tube video of modern Dowsers using 14" 'L' metal rods (use 12 gauge copper electric wire, stripped of insulation'

this one is too long @ 7 minutes: www.youtube.com...

a reply to: neoholographic

No, they did not carry out this experiment.

It plainly says a theoretic experiment. Which means they did the math. It is still evidence towards understanding quantum entanglement, but it’s not an observation or proof of anything. Certainly not that the universe is non physical.



It’s a math problem, that they did on a computer.

originally posted by: St Udio

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Mach2

We're not talking about energy propagating through a vacuum but information going from point A to point B without a physical mechanism. There's no energy or trace particle transmitting the information.

Yes it's huge, but of course it will be downplayed by materialist because how can you have this all or nothing material world if information can be transmitted From Alice to Bob without a physical medium?

 

the act of witching or dowsing, for underground water sources for example, involves the crossing of two metal rods - one each thin, metal rod held in either hand

there is No particle or photon being transmitted or received...Yet 'information' is received from some source which is recognized as 'crossed metal rods' directly above the hidden object/water source...


dig up a You-Tube video of modern Dowsers using 14" 'L' metal rods (use 12 gauge copper electric wire, stripped of insulation'

this one is too long @ 7 minutes: www.youtube.com...

LOL!! You might as well look up some spoon benders as well while you’re at it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: neoholographic

No, they did not carry out this experiment.

It plainly says a theoretic experiment. Which means they did the math. It is still evidence towards understanding quantum entanglement, but it’s not an observation or proof of anything. Certainly not that the universe is non physical.



It’s a math problem, that they did on a computer.

You can't be serious.

The experiment has been carried out successfully several times. All you had to do was take the time to actual read what was posted. I know what happened and I knew someone would make an asinine comment like this because they didn't read the paper. Here's what was quoted from the article:

Intuition from our everyday lives gives rise to the belief that information exchanged between remote parties is carried by physical particles. Surprisingly, in a recent theoretical study [Salih H, Li ZH, Al-Amri M, Zubairy MS (2013) Phys Rev Lett 110:170502], quantum mechanics was found to allow for communication, even without the actual transmission of physical particles. From the viewpoint of communication, this mystery stems from a (nonintuitive) fundamental concept in quantum mechanics—wave-particle duality. All particles can be described fully by wave functions. To determine whether light appears in a channel, one refers to the amplitude of its wave function. However, in counterfactual communication, information is carried by the phase part of the wave function. Using a single-photon source, we experimentally demonstrate the counterfactual communication and successfully transfer a monochrome bitmap from one location to another by using a nested version of the quantum Zeno effect.

phys.org...

You read:

In a recent theoretical study

You thought this line was talking about the current experiment, which is sad I must say because it shows you didn't bother to read what was posted, you saw that one line and thought you had a gotcha moment. PLEASE READ before you respond.

It's obvious he's saying, that theoretical studies have been talked about for years when it comes to counterfactual communication, and now he's carrying out an experiment to realize these theoretical studies. An 8th grader could have figured that out. It goes on to say:

To determine whether light appears in a channel, one refers to the amplitude of its wave function. However, in counterfactual communication, information is carried by the phase part of the wave function. Using a single-photon source, we experimentally demonstrate the counterfactual communication and successfully transfer a monochrome bitmap from one location to another by using a nested version of the quantum Zeno effect.

I have to say, I don't know how anyone can read this an not know they carried out the experiment to confirm the theoretical studies in this area. It tells you they sent a monochrome bitmap using the set up described in theoretical studies over the years. Here's more:

Recent theoretical studies have shown that quantum mechanics allows counterfactual communication, even without actual transmission of physical particles, which raised a heated debate on its interpretation. Although several papers have been published on the theoretical aspects of the subject, a faithful experimental demonstration is missing. Here, by using the quantum Zeno effect and a single-photon source, direct communication without carrier particle transmission is implemented successfully. We experimentally demonstrate the feasibility of direct counterfactual communication with the current technique. The results of our work can help deepen the understanding of quantum mechanics. Furthermore, our experimental scheme is applicable to other quantum technologies, such as imaging and state preparation.

www.pnas.org...

Again, all you have to do is read. It says, papers have been published on theoretical aspects of the subject and HERE THEY CARRY OUT AN EXPERIMENT THAT DEMONSTRATED SUCCESSFULLY THAT THEY WERE CORRECT.

It doesn't take an Einstein to understand something so simple.

You also said:

Certainly not that the universe is non physical.

Of course it shows this. The information was carried from one point to another by the phase part of the wave function.

TELL ME, WHAT PHYSICAL PROPERTIES IS THE PHASE OF THE WAVE FUNCTION MADE OF.

a reply to: neoholographic

Smh....... Particles and waves are both considered physical.

Even when we are talking about entangled particles, we don’t know how the information is passed from one to the other, but at no point does anything we have ever observed point to a non-physical explanation.

You see a gap in understanding and you’re trying to push ghosts and spirits into it. Give it up.