Ford fudges mileage numbers

Actual title..

"Suit seeking $1.2B says Ford falsified F-150 fuel economy tests"

The lawsuit alleges that for cheated on the fuel mileage testing stated on its vehicles.

"Drivers of the nation's top-selling vehicle, the 2018 or 2019 Ford F-150 pickup, could be spending an extra $2,000 in fuel because Ford Motor Co. falsified fuel economy tests."

"According to the suit, plaintiffs conducted tests using EPA-mandated coastdown procedures and found that Ford overstated the fuel economy in its F-150 trucks by 15% for highway mileage and 10% for city mileage."

Now i will point out that the lawsuit has been filed and that alone is not proof of wrongdoing.

"Auto expert firm Edmunds declined to comment on the validity of this lawsuit’s research Monday."

Here's the link.

www.freep.com...


Ok, there ya have it.
I will not hammer on ford "yet".
I've been driving for 30 plus years and can say without a doubt that every vehicle I've ever owned had an average fuel mileage claim that was higher than the real world numbers.

And let's be totally honest here, with stupid government regulations like 10% ethanol in gasoline and emission controls its amazing that car companies can build anything.
Those vary regulations destroyed a locomotive company. They cant sell their locomotives in north america but can sell them overseas....

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

a reply to: Bluntone22

Fuel economy tests are based on optimal conditions, so this will go nowhere.

By optimal conditions, I mean that you would have to drive your vehicle in a climate-controlled world (70 degrees Fahrenheit) where it was always flat and had no weather, no stop signs, no curves and at sea level for the highway mileage.

City mileage is calculated off a percentage of stops and wheel torque at under 55 mph.

That's without any weight in the vehicle and a single driver that weighs under 180 pounds, with Supreme gas.

The numbers for the last 20 years or so are computer generated based on wind co-efficiency, vehicle weight and wheel horsepower and torque.



ETA... this might be ironic but I learned that at a Ford factory mechanic class...

a reply to: Bluntone22

I'll wait for all the facts.. Hopefully this is a mistake.
I am curious though. If it's true, I wonder who is to blame and who knew about it.
Engineers under pressure from higher ups that lied about the numbers to please their bosses?
Or the bosses themselves, lying about the true, but unacceptable numbers from the people in the field who couldn't get the numbers down enough.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I've been driving for 30 plus years and can say without a doubt that every vehicle I've ever owned had an average fuel mileage claim that was higher than the real world numbers.

No car that i have ever known can be driven in the way that the numbers are calculated on by the car manufacturers.
It's always been a little under the stated numbers.

But if they falsified the data, well then they're in big trouble i would think

originally posted by: Bluntone22

Those vary regulations destroyed a locomotive company. They cant sell their locomotives in north america but can sell them overseas....

EMD killed itself by not developing new technology. If it were solely regulations why is GE's locomotive division still selling them here?

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Bluntone22

I'll wait for all the facts.. Hopefully this is a mistake.
I am curious though. If it's true, I wonder who is to blame and who knew about it.
Engineers under pressure from higher ups that lied about the numbers to please their bosses?
Or the bosses themselves, lying about the true, but unacceptable numbers from the people in the field who couldn't get the numbers down enough.

It's always been a jockey for position in MPG in a certain class.

So they very well may have been fudged for the class trophy... we'll see

a reply to: Bluntone22

I used to work in the Heavy Truck and Automotive industry for General Motors. As far as I am concerned and based on my experience GM really tried to do the right thing. So did heavy Truck. I worked for Worldwide Purchasing in GM Powertrain so I had access to corporate headquarters information. I worked on Engine and Transmission launches and touched on everything from fires to broken Piston Rings to oil leaks on Corvette engines. All were always fixed ASAP. I worked in USA, Canada, Mexico and Shanghai China Vehicle Assembly Operations as a Black OP. Systems were redundant so no one could hide anything as several people would be working and seeing and hearing the same thing among several plants, suppliers and countries.

I now live in the "your purty til yer 30" country. Yep the deep South, where the native born bigglies usually weigh in at 400 pounds plus each and yes that includes the wife. So throw in that weight along with the supersized kids at the young age of eight and guess what that does to mileage estimates.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Emd developed a new engine and it failed to preform as hoped. They were forced to abandon a reliable engine.
General electric managed to make one work.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Bluntone22

I'll wait for all the facts.. Hopefully this is a mistake.
I am curious though. If it's true, I wonder who is to blame and who knew about it.
Engineers under pressure from higher ups that lied about the numbers to please their bosses?
Or the bosses themselves, lying about the true, but unacceptable numbers from the people in the field who couldn't get the numbers down enough.

Yep, it comes down to whether it was intentionality falsified or just tweeked...
And by who's order..

I worked in Fuel Systems Engineering at GM for 20 years and it's all a guessing game but in the end the EPA has to approve the numbers.

Ford has always had lower MPG than GM on comparable vehicles.

a reply to: mikell

I know my wifes car is supposed to get 30ish mpg but gets closer to 26.


That's 15% just like it says in the lawsuit.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Emd developed a new engine and it failed to preform as hoped. They were forced to abandon a reliable engine.
General electric managed to make one work.

That's pretty much what I was alluding to.

a reply to: Lumenari

True dat!!!!?
Since those numbers have appeared, I have never gotten the kind of mileage promised.

Does anyone take those numbers seriously???????

a reply to: Bluntone22

every vehicle I've ever owned had an average fuel mileage claim that was higher than the real world numbers.

From my side of the peanut gallery, I can testify to the same experience.

And to add as well, I dont know anyone who buys the F-150 while giving a care about the fuel economy. They never give it any thought whatsoever.

a reply to: TonyS

Kinda true..
I have a crew cab and it's not great on gas.
But honestly if a competitor promises 20% better mileage it would be tempting to change.

a reply to: Bluntone22

One thing I found out many years ago was the ethanol in the gasoline really decreased miles per gallon. You could still buy gasoline in Texas and Oklahoma without ethanol ...The mileage was a few miles per gallon better with non ethanol gas. Been a long time ago but I always tried to buy non ethanol gas even if the price was higher because you still got more bang (mileage) for the buck...

a reply to: Bluntone22

Does anyone take those numbers seriously???????

obviously the idiots behind this lawsuit do

published MPG figures are a joke - they SHOULD get 20 independant reviewers - and set them various tasks - then average the results

a reply to: Bluntone22

Yea, except we both know the competitor would be lying as well.

And you may be the excepton, but at least half the Ford owners I know use the trucks in either the Oil or Agri-business and its all a write off anyway. And then there is the construction trades.

Its all a game.

a reply to: 727Sky

I was in texas last year and filled up with straight gasoline and my mileage improved noticeably.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: Lumenari

True dat!!!!?
Since those numbers have appeared, I have never gotten the kind of mileage promised.

Does anyone take those numbers seriously???????

At least with diesel trucks (with Ford anyways) they are truthful.

If you look at the sticker the MPG is blank.

Because let's be honest... if you are driving a one ton diesel truck to go get groceries and drive your kids to work, were you seriously interested in the mpg it gets?