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Our economy stinks

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posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Edumakated




Economy is booming for the professional and entrepreneur classes. If you have skills, you are doing well. Economy is definitely stagnant for the low skilled. Not really sure what can be done about that in the short term.



We also know that artificially inflating minimum wage won't fix the issue

No but it will push out small business so the big corps can get bigger.


Yep
And most every time we speak out against the power of big corps and lobbyists over our government, the topic gets derailed into why do you hate the rich. Seen it too many times.




posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: dfnj2015

Yeah, totally.... Meanwhile, back in reality: DOW ends just shy of record as stocks rise on news of resumption of face-to-face China trade talks


That means nothing. The DOW is not an indicator of economical health in this country. I don't see how you correlate the two. Please expand your position on this. You do realize what the DOW represents, right?

This thread is astonishing. Did any of the posters here, besides myself, go to college for business, or are you all going by feeling like liberals like to do? I am conservative, dont hate Trump, yet can still see we are in the tanks by statistics, and empirical data.

If you say the economy is doing great, and can see beyond your short sighted first hand experience, post some numbers, and links to back your facts. Instead of BS like, oh well everyone is hiring here, give us some numbers. Wages, housing pricing, goods/needs pricing, debt to income, etc to back up your claim.



Yea, I do not quite get how the DOW has anything to do with the economy or capitalism even.
The financial markets cannot exist without capitalism, but capitalism can exist without the financial markets, they are a third party in it.

Before many companies went national and global and most business were small mom and pop run operations that did not have stocks on wall street. The financial markets are actually a drain on our system since they are the cause for globalism and the cause for our debt where the government constantly props it up with many tricks.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

China is a Communist Dictatorship , the United States is a Democratic Republic . Comparing the Two Economically is just Asinine . MANY Middle Class Americans are MORE Well Off Financially Today than they were 3 Years Ago . A Direct Result I must say of President Trumps Personal Decisions as Commander in Chief . WE THE PEOPLE Elected Someone to LEAD this Great Nation , His Decisions have the Full Support of the MAJORITY of Americans in this Country , and when it comes to OUR Economy , Nobody Except a " Select Few " Somehow Have a Problem with it . Tough Titties I say , He knows what he is doing is Good for " Our Country " , and the Bottom Line is that is All that Matters to US ........



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Edumakated




Economy is booming for the professional and entrepreneur classes. If you have skills, you are doing well. Economy is definitely stagnant for the low skilled. Not really sure what can be done about that in the short term.



We also know that artificially inflating minimum wage won't fix the issue

No but it will push out small business so the big corps and get bigger.


Minimum wage has been artificially pushed down for decades through outsourcing, immigrants, and offshoring. Bumping it up to lower than it would have been had it increased with productivity and inflation? That’s not “artificially inflating” more like a partial correction.


Wages are just where supply and demand intersect. You can't change wages without causing other issues...

I agree that outsourcing, immigrants, offshoring, etc have helped to suppress wages. I'd also argue feminism is a HUGE contributor as well by bringing a ton of women into the workforce. All of these things affect the supply side of the curve thus putting pressure on wages.



In what world? Where do kings of capital not manipulate the system to push wages as low as possible? It’s the whole primary target of neoliberalism. Pushing economies down to be the cheap labor suppliers for the consumer nations. It’s what we did to Eastern Europe, South America, Africa, China, etc. and now it’s results are coming to roost on the average American worker. All of pay scales are a random joke. They’re not based off of actual ability or productivity. Let’s take, for instance, the change since 08. All the economy was in recession so we can’t afford raises! They said. Prior to that in the medical industry we regularly got our 5% per year. Since then we’re lucky to get 3. Most years it’s 2. For about 5 years it was 0. At the same time our hospitals are making banner profits, each year better than any year before. What bs.

Because business lies. They promised more jobs and investment in our own industries with better wages in exchange for trillions in tax breaks. Well we’re still deindustrializing. 95% of it spent on financial shenanigans. But you go right on thinking that the oligarchs will let little things like “supply” and “demand” effect their profits. They create artificial scarcity, they price fix, and they create demand. If the military is topped off on weapons and supplies, they’ll create a war so they can sell more munitions. They probably see global warming and environmental catastrophes as a good plus for future profits too.


One of the biggest lies told in capitalism today, is that everyone under capitalism is under no pressure to buy or sell their wares or labor and have free choice in it. Upon close inspection in this country and with our trading partners, it is proven to be a big fat lie.

Big Business Organizes with Lobbyists to tailor policies beneficial to them in this country and with other countries where workers do not have rights.
When labor tries to do the same, the business close the doors to prevent this from spreading.
When we pressure other countries to give workers rights, the business class steps in and says we should not meddle in other countries affairs lol.

But if there is money to be made in bombing a country, the business in the defense sector is all on-board with meddling.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Why is high population density a plus?

The number of people in an area seems to be an arbitrary of measure of its quality for living.


Well like I said, everything goes up with population. I live in a low population area, we have no jobs and the ones we do have are low pay. Homes are made shoddy because we have no real skilled work force and it takes them a year to do what a more populated contracter does in a month.
Just my own experience example, I didn't research why they chose to include population.


It used to be a good thing in this country when you had a mass of wealthy people move into town.
Ever since Globalism, it has the opposite effect.

Wages remain the same since they are competing with global labor while the cost of living rises since the mass of wealthy people put upward pressure on housing prices and other services and end up pricing out the lower class sending them to the streets.

Austin used to be a nice town with almost no homeless until the tech sector moved in.
It drove housing prices to the roof and the working poor and homeless population has grown by leaps and bounds.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: dfnj2015

China is a Communist Dictatorship , the United States is a Democratic Republic . Comparing the Two Economically is just Asinine . MANY Middle Class Americans are MORE Well Off Financially Today than they were 3 Years Ago . A Direct Result I must say of President Trumps Personal Decisions as Commander in Chief . WE THE PEOPLE Elected Someone to LEAD this Great Nation , His Decisions have the Full Support of the MAJORITY of Americans in this Country , and when it comes to OUR Economy , Nobody Except a " Select Few " Somehow Have a Problem with it . Tough Titties I say , He knows what he is doing is Good for " Our Country " , and the Bottom Line is that is All that Matters to US ........


I voted for the guy, but I am just not seeing it. A trickle here or there. 1 or 2 steel factories opening. 1 or 2 parts manufacturers opening. Then the salaries they offer compared to COLI is ridiculous.

People still think 50k is a decent living. Its not.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: SeaWorthy


I thought they meant gap between income and expense?


Actually meant more like;

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO's Executive Paywatch news release today. May 22, 2018

But that goes hand in hand. The average american has less purchasing power with their wages, compared to almost anytime in history, and COL is higher than ever.

We live in the Corporatocracy of America now. Big business makes the rules, and tells you the numbers, and if you don't like it, there's the door, we will find someone to fill your shoes, or ship your job to (insert even lower avg wage country here).



Times have changed.
I remember in the 50's, the MOTTO was the Customer was Number 1.
We looked to the Communist Soviet Union as example of what happens when the state has all the power and the workers have none and thanked capitalism for our ability to organize as workers as we are entitled to.

That MOTTO changed the last 30 years to where the shareholder is Number 1.
Customers get obsolescent and cheap widgets and workers get to compete with slave labor overseas.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: dfnj2015

China is a Communist Dictatorship , the United States is a Democratic Republic . Comparing the Two Economically is just Asinine . MANY Middle Class Americans are MORE Well Off Financially Today than they were 3 Years Ago . A Direct Result I must say of President Trumps Personal Decisions as Commander in Chief . WE THE PEOPLE Elected Someone to LEAD this Great Nation , His Decisions have the Full Support of the MAJORITY of Americans in this Country , and when it comes to OUR Economy , Nobody Except a " Select Few " Somehow Have a Problem with it . Tough Titties I say , He knows what he is doing is Good for " Our Country " , and the Bottom Line is that is All that Matters to US ........


China is not a communist dictatorship. They have private business, and a mixed market economy, two things which absolutely don’t exist in communism.

The us is not a democratic republic. The people’s votes and opinions have zero actual measureable effect on policy or legislation. That’s the opposite of democracy.

The percentage of people in the us who are middle class is much lower now than at any time in the last 40 years.
50% of working Americans make poverty wages of under $19 an hour.

The majority of Americans do not support trump, and have not supported his actions.

You live in an echo chamber.

The bottom line is all the signs that lead up to the crash in 08 are leading us again to a crash in ‘20, and trump is doing nothing to stop it, either because he doesn’t even realize it’s coming, or because he’s busy helping his friends extract as much money from this sinking ship as possible before it implodes.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: pexx421 Our system is not a meritocracy, not for the vast majority at work, and not in society as a whole.


This boils it down pretty succinctly. If people were paid fairly for their contributions to these huge corporations (in your field, the new trend of huge hospitals swallowing smallers ones, and dictating wages, and healthcare pricing), things would be different. They have too much power, and as much as I am for small govt' and free market capitalism, we need more oversight, and regulation to bring rhe average workers wages up, and quit paying these executives these ridiculous amounts of money.


If Global Corporations had to pay the military bill for global defense, like patrolling the Hormuz Straits, patrolling the east and so on, and the tax payers had to pay 0, it would give a leg up to local business to out price them at the lower end.

Everything we do in our country currently is done to reward globalist shareholders and corporations and punish Americans stuck here in this country with ever increasing housing prices and cost of living.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: KnoxMSP

Why brag about a work ethic?
Doesn't everyone have one?

As for two parents working, I'm the only one who works, my wife home-schools and takes care of everything so I can concentrate on work.

We adjust our lifestyle for one salary.



The way you play the game to get rich, as I am told by other posters on others boards, is to use as many loop holes as possible to pay less taxes, use other peoples money via politicians to grow your business, use other countries labor if it is cheaper, lobby politicians to tailor policies beneficial to you and so on.

It seems like you are saying we should let the above people alone to do as they please while everyone else just accepts it.
What is wrong then in everyone engaging in that kind of behavior then?
Drop the laws and let everyone do as they please to make money.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: Slichter
a reply to: shooterbrody

Its the credit utilization that brought down my score.
Wonder if the same thing might happen with the US?
We already have a lower national credit score than Canada and Australia.

Back in 2005 through 2007 the US central bank loaned money to banks and the banks loaned it out for sub prime mortgages which turned into worthless junk bonds..

The Federal Reserve didn't step in and cut rates again till the Dow Jones stock average fell from over 14,000 in 2007 until December 2008 when the Dow reached 8,000.

We don't need a repeat of that.


The 2008 crisis was a bankers game and they won.
They made money on the up and were bailed out on the crash.

There are 10 banking lobbyist for every politician in DC so they got what they wanted.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: KnoxMSP

I Live in a Blue State , My Personal Income since President Trump was Elected has Almost Doubled . I Lost my Home to a Sheriffs SALE in 2015 during Obamanations Second Term . Money Talks and BS Walks , who am i Supporting in 2020 ? Duh ?



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:25 PM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Good for you! My income has more than doubled over the last 5 years as well. I switched careers, and bounced to another state (blue) with higher pay. Had nothing to do with trump. Guess who I won’t be voting for 2020? I’d prefer to not have a moron in office during the economic crash of 20/21.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: KnoxMSP

The Country is Not Totally Dependent on Manufacturing , this Present Economy is being Driven by Middle Class Labor and Consumer Confidence . My Advice would be trying ti Start your Own Business . Be Your Own BOSS , the Perfect Economic Atmosphere to do that it Today .



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: KnoxMSP

The Country is Not Totally Dependent on Manufacturing , this Present Economy is being Driven by Middle Class Labor and Consumer Confidence . My Advice would be trying ti Start your Own Business . Be Your Own BOSS , the Perfect Economic Atmosphere to do that it Today .


Uhm, I have, and I am.

I went back to school, as did my wife. We are doing ok, getting by frugally, doesnt change anything about average Americans, and what my children have to deal with as adults.
edit on 26-7-2019 by KnoxMSP because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

Never Give a Sucker an Even Break . You are Delusional if you think President Trump did not have Anything to do with your Present Alleged Good Fortune . To Seriously Get Ahead in a Capitalistic System , it takes a Sincere Effort ,. Those who Lack that Conviction are just Treading Water ...



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 07:55 PM
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You dont want to use china as an example. It's a false economy and unsustainable. Property is created which no one buys the government just pays to have entire cities built. Currently they have warehouses full of stuff they haven't sold. The factories continue to churn out products even though sales are decreasing in the US.

When you have a government that controls everything you can create a fake economy on a huge scale.

www.nytimes.com...



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: pexx421

Never Give a Sucker an Even Break . You are Delusional if you think President Trump did not have Anything to do with your Present Alleged Good Fortune . To Seriously Get Ahead in a Capitalistic System , it takes a Sincere Effort ,. Those who Lack that Conviction are just Treading Water ...


Such as?

What bills or actions of Trumps directly affected the DI and COLI for the labor force?

I thought he would do what he said, and it's not really his fault, his hands have been tied unfairly in a lot of ways, but I just dont see the follow through for his base. He's at the helm of this ship I voted him Captain for, so lets steer it the direction he said he would.

Signed,

A Disheartened Trump Supporter

edit on 26-7-2019 by KnoxMSP because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: jacobe001

I'm not sure how or why you went off like that.

*shrugs*

All I'm saying is that blaming the "economy" for your financial woes is placing the blame in the wrong place.

People can and have succeeded in bad economies.

People have failed in good economies.

Be responsible for your own success.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: jacobe001

I'm not sure how or why you went off like that.

*shrugs*

All I'm saying is that blaming the "economy" for your financial woes is placing the blame in the wrong place.

People can and have succeeded in bad economies.

People have failed in good economies.

Be responsible for your own success.



You’re a human. This is the real world. You think the women and children killed in Iraq were being irresponsible towards their own success? You are just as subject to influences outside yourself as they are.



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