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Our economy stinks

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posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: SeaWorthy
"He has zero debt and is only 20 yrs old."

Someone paid for his training.

Yes... he did... worked two or three jobs.


Most people have to do it with student loans.

Because they aren't willing to work 2 or 3 part time jobs.




posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: projectvxn

I like AOC. I think she's great!


Of course you do.....anyone that doesn't believe you just needs to read a few of your posts and it all becomes clear!

Dorian Soran.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
I think If you take the minimum wage from 40 years ago, adjust it for inflation and productivity, and that’s what kids, Walmart greeters, and others similar should be getting.

Frack the minimum wage. Entry level jobs should get what the market provides for... nothing more.

Trying to artificially manipulate the market is what got us into this mess. You don't get out of it with more artificial manipulation.


From most of the research I’ve seen that’s $18-20 an hour. Wages may be pushed up in the near future, but it’s not because trump. It’s because sanders campaign has forced target, Amazon, and Walmart to push their wages up. This is not debated. Trump has done nothing to increase wages, just more tax breaks for the wealthy which led to stock buybacks and big bonuses.

A consumption tax is the most regressive tax of all,

Not if the necessities are automatically exempt, like I suggested.

Food. Toiletries. Ordinary clothing (fur coats, $1,000+ suits, etc would not be exempt). Gasoline. Cars below a certain amount. Things like that - and yes, I understand this would take a bit of thought to get right, and I would be 100% against any kind of 'tax credit' type of implementation - anything that is exempt, is exempt at the Point Of Sale, no ID or other type of tracking/records involved.


and would only tax .5% of the wealthy elites income while taxing 100% of the poor and working class income.

Wrong. Most of what the poor would be spending their money on would be tax exempt. they could easily avoid ALL taxes, if they didn't buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc.


Way to shift the burdens of societies cost onto those that benefit from it the least.

Wrong, see above - try again.


I agree labor should not be taxed at all. The only income tax should be on unearned income. That’s capital gains, rent, and other forms of exploitation.

I have two rental properties. I rent them for what I can get for them. Are you seriously suggesting I am exploiting the people who rent them?

By all means, edumacate me on how capital gains are 'exploitative'.


Lastly, the American people are not charitable for the same reason that they don’t pay enough in taxes to cover the deficit. All, directly, because their wages have been suppressed so long that they have no money to donate or to tax.

100% pure BS.

Charitable contributions went way up as a result of the Reagan tax cuts - just like they always do. That is fact.

As to wages being depressed - yes, they have been, by socialist programs and high taxes (personal and corporate).


Every single point you make is the narrative created by the wealthy elite, and followed for the last 30 years by the neoliberal model to make debtors and peons of everyone except the wealthy elite.

and every one of your points come straight out of the Socialist/Communist manifesto of how to destroy society.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015




The swamp hasn't been drained


But but - the wealthy got some great breaks - hoping everyone believes the lie that trickle down economics works.



I think the government needs to print some interest free money and get this economy going again in real terms!


Thats reserved for JP Morgan and their ilk who sold the toxic assets to the Government only to buy them beck for cents in the $.

You dont live under the same rules as "those" drivers of the economy and the "too big to fail"



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: Gargoyle91




Depends on what you are currently charging I'm a block away from the beach and my little 1000 sq foot 2 bed 1 bath is $2650 per month there's got to be weights and balances . It wouldn't be the renters fault if you refinanced and took out a bunch of money thinking you can just raise the rent to cover i


See this is what I dont get - most of ATSers deride Australia Britain and other 1st world nations that have nationalized medicine ( with choice of Private ) and scream it amounts to "commie thinking"

And yet you want Government intervention controls and expect upkeep/reno's from investors done for free.

Yeah right - are your salaries capped or negotiable? Do you work for free? - see how that works?



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: KnoxMSP

Whichever way you look at it interest rates were upto 17%. Irrespective of your purchasing power the ballooning of the amount owing was quite horrendous



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
"He has zero debt and is only 20 yrs old."

Someone paid for his training.

Yes... he did... worked two or three jobs.


Most people have to do it with student loans.

Because they aren't willing to work 2 or 3 part time jobs.


Many need to actually have time to study.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
I just read this:

"The story is even more dramatic in China. Real wages have risen just over 7.0 percent annually over the last decade"

Can you imagine your wages rising in real terms 7 percent per year for 10 years!! That's freaking amazing. That means the cost of goods and services has been dropping when taking into account inflation!! Can you imagine???????

The quote was taken from this article:

The “Aging Crisis” Is Actually Just a Labor Crisis for the Wealthy

In this country wages are flat or negative in real terms and we have a long way to go on this chart:

Employment–popu lation ratio and unemployement rate

This article talks about the economy with lots of graphs:

Trump Claims the Economy Is the Best Ever—These 11 Facts Tell a Different Story

"Despite Trump’s Massive Corporate Tax Cuts, Business Investment Isn’t Growing “Like Never Before”"

The swamp hasn't been drained. And the latest round of trickle-down-Reagonomics didn't work.

I think the government needs to print some interest free money and get this economy going again in real terms!



I tend to look at shadowstats that spans across all political spectrum's and the economy and wages have not really budged over the last last 30 years for most Americans. The corporate and financial globalists are winning in turning this into a third world country.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: FauxMulder
Well the average salary in China is about $23,000 a year (63,000 yuan) that is for 2017, most recent data. In the US its $56,000 and that was back in 2015, again most recent data.

When their average is on par with ours, you wont see those 7 percent increases.

www.google.com... &ie=UTF-8

www.google.com... F-8


Sounds like Ross Perot was right then.
He also said that ours would come down to meet theirs so it is we that have a ways to go.
And that would wreck the economy where people want $500,000 for their houses on people making 23,000 a year.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

You economy and my economy are apparently two different things.




Worker paychecks are showing their biggest gains since the recovery began a decade ago, and are more than keeping up with inflation. Labor Department numbers released Wednesday show that real average hourly earnings, which compare the nominal rise in wages with the cost of living, rose 1.7 percent in January on a year-over-year basis. A month ago, the increase was 1.3 percent. A year ago, the gain was just 0.7 percent. In all, the rise in inflation-adjusted hourly pay showed the best increase since July 2016.


link



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: KnoxMSP



Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

I remember the economy in the 1970's.
I think some genXers and millenials need to experience some of those 'easy times'.



Easy to disprove that with stats, if need be.

Look into the purchase power of the dollar in the 70's, along with pricing of needs, goods, and housing, and compare to now. You will find you are mistaken. Dont take my word though, look for yourself.


My dad worked at a restaurant in the 70's as a teen and was able to buy a new car and put himself through college.
You will not be able to do that today.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
Unnaturally massed produced foods do not require a lot of labor to produce, but the quality of the food chemistry is lacking.

We have importers hauling in imports from China who makes it cheap, but importers and high paid people jack the prices way up in this consumer based society. We could make the stuff and pay our workers decently with the difference of the profits taken by the rich people importing the stuff. But of course, low cost of living because you can eat garbage food and buy junk that does not last from other countries causes wage increases not to happen here in America.

Under Trump we got more jobs, but the top one percent is still making a very lot of money. We are well conditioned to spend money on things we really do not need and skimp on necessary things. Perfect way to destroy a society, people are getting sick from poor nutrition because they spend their money on phones and computers. Even our meats and vegetables are compromised, cows are not supposed to be eating what they are feeding them. The Veggies are treated to last weeks instead of days, so this chemistry causes harm to us yet they tout antioxidants like they are treated with as super foods BS coming at us from every direction, the economy is not so big of an issue as people getting way more cancer and diabetes these days from improper food chemistry being called safe.

The economy is going fine, lots of jobs being created in the medical and pharma industry to make the numbers look good.



Good post.
I have taken a look at a lot of items once made in the USA.
The profit margin may have been 5% while moving to China would change that to 30%.
Labor is always cheaper under Communist systems since workers do not have any rights.
An iphone is sold for $800 but only costs $200 to make with labor included.
It could be easily made in the USA, but wall street would not get as big a fat cut.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: KnoxMSP



Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

I remember the economy in the 1970's.
I think some genXers and millenials need to experience some of those 'easy times'.





Yeah, the seventies and early eighties were great, before they exported all the real jobs from this country.

I was speaking of the 70's of the Nixon/Ford/Carter era that had double digit inflation and unemployment.
I was forced to eat government cheese.



Well, that is an interesting take...forced...
So the losers from globalism in our economy today are forced to take hand outs?
edit on 26-7-2019 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: pexx421
I think If you take the minimum wage from 40 years ago, adjust it for inflation and productivity, and that’s what kids, Walmart greeters, and others similar should be getting.

Frack the minimum wage. Entry level jobs should get what the market provides for... nothing more.

Trying to artificially manipulate the market is what got us into this mess. You don't get out of it with more artificial manipulation.


From most of the research I’ve seen that’s $18-20 an hour. Wages may be pushed up in the near future, but it’s not because trump. It’s because sanders campaign has forced target, Amazon, and Walmart to push their wages up. This is not debated. Trump has done nothing to increase wages, just more tax breaks for the wealthy which led to stock buybacks and big bonuses.

A consumption tax is the most regressive tax of all,

Not if the necessities are automatically exempt, like I suggested.

Food. Toiletries. Ordinary clothing (fur coats, $1,000+ suits, etc would not be exempt). Gasoline. Cars below a certain amount. Things like that - and yes, I understand this would take a bit of thought to get right, and I would be 100% against any kind of 'tax credit' type of implementation - anything that is exempt, is exempt at the Point Of Sale, no ID or other type of tracking/records involved.


and would only tax .5% of the wealthy elites income while taxing 100% of the poor and working class income.

Wrong. Most of what the poor would be spending their money on would be tax exempt. they could easily avoid ALL taxes, if they didn't buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc.


Way to shift the burdens of societies cost onto those that benefit from it the least.

Wrong, see above - try again.


I agree labor should not be taxed at all. The only income tax should be on unearned income. That’s capital gains, rent, and other forms of exploitation.

I have two rental properties. I rent them for what I can get for them. Are you seriously suggesting I am exploiting the people who rent them?

By all means, edumacate me on how capital gains are 'exploitative'.


Lastly, the American people are not charitable for the same reason that they don’t pay enough in taxes to cover the deficit. All, directly, because their wages have been suppressed so long that they have no money to donate or to tax.

100% pure BS.

Charitable contributions went way up as a result of the Reagan tax cuts - just like they always do. That is fact.

As to wages being depressed - yes, they have been, by socialist programs and high taxes (personal and corporate).


Every single point you make is the narrative created by the wealthy elite, and followed for the last 30 years by the neoliberal model to make debtors and peons of everyone except the wealthy elite.

and every one of your points come straight out of the Socialist/Communist manifesto of how to destroy society.


Sure. Let me help you out. Capital gains are exploitive because any time you are making money without working for it, you are taking it away from those who do work for it. That’s the free lunch. It makes far more sense for people to be taxed on money that they don’t work for rather than money they have to create with labor.

As to the market. The market is not some magical, self regulating thing as libertarians seem to think. They are taught to think this way by the wealthy elite corporations and oligarchs because those are the people who control the market. So when people say “let the market dictate” they’re really saying “ let the oligarchs dictate”. Which they’ve been doing for 40 years. And what an amazing job they’ve been doing, apparently. They manipulate labor with outsourcing, and force labor to compete with third world countries, and they manipulate legislation so they don’t have to pay their share of taxes, or their products become mandated, or they take taxpayer money in no bid contracts, or they limit harvest or production to create false scarcity, or they start a war to get arms, munitions, and rebuilding contracts, or they make propaganda to manipulate the public to keep mj illegal so they get more prisoner money.....


Really the ways that those with money control the market keeps going on and on and the fact you don’t recognize it is testament either to the power of their propaganda or your state of denial. A self regulating market is a fairy tail. There is no market that exists that those at the top don’t totally control or dominate. It’s delusional to think that any system of trade or transactions will be free of the pressures that those with money and power can bring to bear to ensure they will continue to get more of the money and power.

But I do like the idea you had of no taxes on the majority of standard goods. The govt itself would have to massively shrink and I think we’re all ok with that, so long as it retained the money and power to handle infrastructure, defense, and to protect its citizens from the power of the oligarchs. After all, that’s what govt is really supposed to be there for.

FYI, the “free market” was originally a socialist idea, and it meant a market free from rent, monopolies, and exploitation. Take those away, and that’s exactly what you think the market is supposed to be. But so long as we have those a market will never be free, it’s just a mechanism of control and power. In exactly the way that the us uses SWIFT to steal the money and sever from the world markets anyone who they don’t like.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: dfnj2015

At $100,000 living in Los Angeles I'm still pay check to pay check - Rent and taxes are killing me here in LA it costs me over $2000 a month just to go to work between gas, taxes and insurance So I agree .


It's funny how people ignore half the equation. We have no free-markets left in this country. All we have is cartels and monopolies. On top of that local governments are froth with corruption driving up local taxes.

It's going to be a long time before people figure out corporations are gaming the system on every level.

Contrary to the delusions of right wing Retardicans, the facts simply do not support their mindless devotion to party:

Purchasing power of the consumer dollar

I might as well have said "Trump stinks" in my OP judging by the responses.


We used to hear a lot about the Bilderberg and CFR Groups, consisting of the heads of corporations, banks, and politicians getting together in their meetings on how to enrich themselves and now we do not hear about it as much anymore since those that profited from it are on the winning side, and those on the losing side do not have the money nor speech to speak out against it.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:12 PM
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originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: Gargoyle91

Depends on supply and demand. Charge what the market will bear - if nobody bites at $2650 lower the price. If people are beating down your door to pay $2650 raise the price. Couldn't be simpler than that. But not in L.A., that's somehow unfair.


I think your statement tells it all though.
"What the market will bare" rather than what is a reasonable price and profit margin.

They say the consumer benefited from globalism but I think this is BS. The major beneficiary was the finance industry and upper level management.
The sellers move to China and sell their stuff here at the same price because the market could bare it before and it can bare it after.


If you sold a widget for $50 bucks in the USA before at 5% profits and then moved to some slave labor country, you are going to charge the same price and reap the extra profits and not pass the savings to the consumer.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: pexx421

I’ll tell you what caused the middle class boom. Massive public investment. The opposite of the austerity which we force on people during economic travails, and the exact way you’re supposed to handle depression and recession. Govt pushed hard on infrastructure and industrialization. Here we do the opposite, our govt prints tons of money, like they did, but then it just gives it to bankers to save their profit. No jobs created. No markets saved. All the people allowed to go to hell.



Our government used to work for the people, now they work for the corporations and banks.
75% of DC is filled with corporate and banking insiders.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: pexx421
Chinas actual purchasing power has quadrupled for the average citizen over the last 10 years. Their manufacturing has exploded and industrialization and middle class have grown faster than any civilization in history. They single handedly kept capitalism from total collapse for the last decade.

The us, on the other hand, has continued to increase its wealth, albeit at a far slower rate than China. However for some reason, while We are wealthier than we have ever been, the middle class continues to shrink, wages continue to decline, and life continues to get worse for the majority of Americans. But, we have freedom here! The freedom of the wealthy elite to steal all the profit created from increased productivity of the workers over the last 40 years. At the same time that people are talking about how well they are doing, how good the economy is, the very same indicators that signaled the coming crash in 07 are here today. But they were saying how great the economy was in 07 as well. Because people have lost the ability to understand real economics or to be able to see when things are about to drop off. Ah well.

For anyone else, I’d strongly suggest switching to bonds and other non volatile instruments, as the us will be bottoming out in the next 6-8 months, and this time I doubt China will save us.


Unfair trade deals are causing middle class boom in China. We essentially shifted our middle class jobs over there... we basically raised them up and out of poverty at the expense of our own middle class.



The only ones making unfair trade deals are Americans. It’s insane the doublethink. What did China ask for? Markets. That’s really it. What does America demand? We demand that they don’t subsidize their business, while we do. We demand they don’t use tariffs while we do. We demand their banks don’t give low interest loans to business. We demand they buy our farming supplies and equipment, and try to force our gm foods on them, which nobody wants. Not too different from the opium wars, where we invaded and forced them to buy our heroin, except we can’t force them at gunpoint anymore. Oh, boo hoo, how unfair they are.


And we finally have a President that is stopping those trade deals despite opposition from both parties...



No, he is only plugging the hole for China, but the hole is not plugged for other slave labor countries.
Business follow the most profitable model and there are tons of countries cheaper to exploit rather than return to the USA.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:39 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: SeaWorthy

And that’s the problem is many can’t see past their own experience and beliefs. I think this is the goal of neoliberalism and the current narrative because folks like this are easier to fill with nationalism and xenophobia. I see on here so many times “well it’s going well for me!” And it reminds me of Clinton saying “remember how well things went under Obama” never realizing that for the majority it didn’t. Or trump thinking we all pay $500 a year for insurance. It’s a complete lack of understanding of how the majority lives, not because you haven’t heard it, we all have, you just refuse to believe it.

And half the time, they’re so divorced from the truth that when I talk about the situation they start attacking me for being poor and not working hard enough. Despite the fact that I’m far from poor, and quite gainfully employed. I can only assume it’s because they don’t understand why someone would support or speak for people struggling and impoverished unless they were impoverished themselves. Oh well.



Good Post
I live in one of the best states according the US map posted by the previous poster.
I also have a good job, make good money and live in a low crime area so for me it was spot on.

But I also look at our country as a whole, not by state nor by party and there are many things wrong and unless we change course, that map will be red across the USA.



posted on Jul, 26 2019 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: KnoxMSP



Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

I remember the economy in the 1970's.
I think some genXers and millenials need to experience some of those 'easy times'.



Easy to disprove that with stats, if need be.

Look into the purchase power of the dollar in the 70's, along with pricing of needs, goods, and housing, and compare to now. You will find you are mistaken. Dont take my word though, look for yourself.


My dad worked at a restaurant in the 70's as a teen and was able to buy a new car and put himself through college.
You will not be able to do that today.


I did that in the late 90's . Worked as waiter and when I couldn't afford to pay for a full semester I took 1 class.

It can be done. However , I think the issue is not so much the cost of the education but people picking the wrong field to get into debt for.

My wife 3 or so yrs ago got her nursing degree and we paid 60k for it. It could have been cheaper and half that but we felt the program was worth it.

She worked as a secretary in the er and we ran the numbers to see if it made sense to get her 4 yr degree in nursing. It made sense , she already had contacts in the er, knew what nurse were getting paid in the er, and she specialized in the ER as she enjoyed it and was in higher demand.

Long story short she went to school full time as a requirement of the program , graduated and made more in one year out of college than the cost of her education.

So basically for a little more than your average cost of a truck she got an education that is paying her back.

So the moral of the story research what field you go into and make sure it's worth the cost and their is a demand for it and not saturated when you graduate.
edit on 42731America/ChicagoFri, 26 Jul 2019 17:42:55 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



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