Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

actually the only truth is that something crashed at roswell. That something must have been an experimental usa craft possibly by the then nazi scientists from project paperclip. The alien angle is used when cia wants to hide stuff and misdirect researchers and enemy states.Germans were indeed ahead in aviation technology but ufos?no ,never had ufos

We might have to look at the angle that bigelow aerospace is a shell company run by cia. It only needs a few lines by green and then for the three stooges dolohowecameron to snowball it to a nice fable

originally posted by: mirageman

So Kit Green claims he was "deceived by powerful people, outside of politics, using a method to promote monetary links to associated projects"

Since Green is a smart bunny, is it feasible that he didn't work all this out for himself in 2001 (the year of the AA memo)? Is his current expression of confusion and anger directed more at himself for not realising sooner? After all, following the death of his first bullsh*tting mentor in 1997, he again got excited about his next mentor's similar promises in 2002, who then strung him along until 2011. (It seems the 2005 SERPO hoax in the interim didn't nudge his common sense despite his alleged involvement in that scam alongside best mate Doty.)

Does the mention of "aliens" bring him out in a cold, rather ashamed sweat these days? Or did he suspect all along?

Cameron, Howe and Dolan all suck money from gullible believers and their livelihood depends on it. Before that a certain bunch of feathered friends did too. Although they had much better qualifications and were able to bleed the US taxpayer first. But then found a credulous billionaire.

Follow the money..........

Dolan is just taking longer to fall from grace. Perhaps because he's intrinsically a nice, sensitive and thoughtful guy - I can sense that instinctively - but give it a four or five years and he might be at Greer levels of absurdity once he hits that 'wall' that all researchers do when it becomes clear that no answers to the mystery are forthcoming. So they may as well play to the true WannaBelievers and take them on special Woo outings etc. Or he could just jack it all in and retain some dignity.

Bigelow's belief in UFOs/aliens is clearly deeply entrenched, bubbling since childhood and still evident in his infamous '60-Minutes' interview a couple of years back when he laughed at the absurdity of there NOT being an alien presence among us. Zipping back 15 years, it's no wonder then that Davis and Co believed they had an easy moneybags target to seduce and exploit, even when using something as ridiculous as a memo about Ray bloody Santilli (who must be wetting himself with laughter right now).

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Well here's my theory (feel free to pick it apart)....

I don't think this is really about alien autopsies or even autopsies of progeria sufferers with six fingers and internal organs that don't match human physiology at all. I'm not sure how you could mix up the two myself.

I think it's all smokescreen. The memo was an attempt to bleed more cash from Bigelow. I don't think he was taken in by it though. He reduced NIDS to almost nothing beyond a website from that point on. Finally it was closed down completely in 2004.

Luckily Bigelow was awarded the $22m AAWSAP contract in 2008 and the old gang were back together again (at least Big Eric and the Hoff were). What did the $22m go on?

• We know MUFON's databases were plundered for around $0.5m by BAASS.

• 38 DIRD papers - cost unknown (estimate £1m). But a nice earner to Davis and Hoffster who wrote some of them on the list. We know Davis made $25k for writing an 88 page paper on how teleportation was real back in 2004

• Skinwalker Ranch - costs unknown

A ranch in Utah, known for decades as the site of bizarre encounters, became a living lab for the study.

Las Vegas Now

Why was this being used as a 'lab for study' (hadn't NIDS previously spent 5 years there with nothing but a bunch of stories?). Seems to me like the strange mythology is nothing but that. Despite claims I've never found any UFO stories (except one) or any history of strange goings on at that ranch prior to the Shermans moving there in the 1990s.

I think you can make a case that Bigelow is part of the MIC. He's been working with these people for decades. Maybe not completely by choice.

originally posted by: mirageman

I think it's all smokescreen. The memo was an attempt to bleed more cash from Bigelow. I don't think he was taken in by it though. He reduced NIDS to almost nothing beyond a website from that point on. Finally it was closed down completely in 2004.

It certainly seems like they tried to bleed him. The Autopsy story only serves to feed UFOtainers today, the actual motives of the memo brushed aside or even not considered at all, although I doubt Dolan is that naive; if only he'd popped that important question to Kit - at least as part of the article's 'on the record' account. Off the record, such a motive may have been fully discussed, hence the rather cryptic conclusion. Whether Green was an unwitting co-conspirator in 2001 and how much truth lies behind the eccentric stories of mentors offering 'special access' arguably remains open to question.

As for the $22m expenditure, by far the most notorious is the Skinwalker Ranch saga that created its own modern legend and enjoys an undeserved fascination when, as you say, we have nothing but a bunch of enticing campfire tales stemming from an area that has no antecedents for anomalous events. I have tried to find other stories myself but to no avail, any accounts seemingly restricted to Kelleher and Knapp's 2005 book and Corbell's 2018 documentary.

And we're promised even MORE stories courtesy of an upcoming new TV show, anonymous ranch security guards coming out of the woodwork to spook potential consumers. Attracting a new generation of gawpers.

I think you can make a case that Bigelow is part of the MIC. He's been working with these people for decades. Maybe not completely by choice.

I think that's a fair assumption. For great swathes of his involvement he may have simply been one of those "useful idiots' - just far wealthier than most.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I usually agree with a lot of stuff you bring up, which is why this was kinda odd.

Dolan is just taking longer to fall from grace. Perhaps because he's intrinsically a nice, sensitive and thoughtful guy - I can sense that instinctively - but give it a four or five years and he might be at Greer levels of absurdity once he hits that 'wall' that all researchers do when it becomes clear that no answers to the mystery are forthcoming. So they may as well play to the true WannaBelievers and take them on special Woo outings etc. Or he could just jack it all in and retain some dignity.

WTF did I just read? What exactly is the "Greer levels of absurdity" you are getting at here? And since when would it be the researchers fault that everything juicy is hidden behind a veil of National Security concerns? This is what the critical method in action looks like? Un-fcking-believable.

"They" would have the public at their heels all the fcking time if it wasn't for WannabeSkeptics like you and statements like that. Go ahead and shoot more messengers cuz those fools have the audacity to make a living with a highly intriguing topic?

As if they would be fooling people with lies and deception. But are they?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

What exactly is the "Greer levels of absurdity" you are getting at here?

Assuming you're being serious, pick a Greer thread. Any Greer thread.

And since when would it be the researchers fault that everything juicy is hidden behind a veil of National Security concerns?

It's a vital part of their livelihood that they state - and make us believe - that everything juicy (I take it you mean Real ET Secrets) remains hidden behind a veil of NS concerns.

As mentioned before, why didn't Dolan ask Green about the PURPOSE of the 2001 memo? Because it pops the very bubble of 'juiciness' for his audience that was originally meant to hoodwink Bigelow?

"They" would have the public at their heels all the fcking time if it wasn't for WannabeSkeptics like you.

Thanks for the R-rated 'Scooby Doo' quote!

Never seen myself as a WannabeSceptic, though. Far from it - I just take each case (and researcher, and organisation) as they come, and on their own merits. They either ring my personal BS bell or they don't. Simple really. There are no absolutes in this crazy ballpark.

Go ahead and shoot more messengers cuz those fools have the audacity to make a living with a highly intriguing topic?

Will do, if they take us for fools.

I'm not as generally critical of Dolan as others, but he's teetering on the brink of falling into the same pit as Moulton Howe, Cameron and Greer - all of whom, to be fair, started out with the best of intentions and some impressive work.

As if they would be fooling people with lies and deception.

Again, are you being serious here? In fact, I'm not sure if your entire post has its tongue in its cheek - which would make me a short-sighted, short-humoured fool.

originally posted by: pigsy2400

Dr Charles Stahl mentioned in the NIDs emails as well as escorting Kit to this facility where the “alien tissue samples” were stored?

Who is Dr Charles Stahl?

Stahl co-authored an article with Green and a Dr. Farnum in the Journal of forensic Science, summarized in a 1985 Wall Street Journal article. This copy of the article is in the CIA files, since declassified.

www.cia.gov...

The subject of 'Yellow Rain Weapons' is itself a controversial one, probably there is a thread about it somewhere here on ATS.

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Thanks Rob, I wasn't aware of the declassified doc, thanks

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Thanks Rob, I wasn't aware of the declassified doc, thanks

Actually, its just an article from the Wall Street Journal, but the CIA has it in their files. Note that the name "Christopher C. Green" is underlined, the only one. As if to say, "He is one of ours?"

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

The Toxic Mold element (yellow rain) is very interesting, particularly when over exposure to it, the side effects are essentially "paranormal".

In old buildings where there are "hauntings", they dub it "SBS - sick Building syndrome"

Potentially could have use it elsewhere;
"here boys get some of this into your lungs and go hunt that large black Wolf and Skinwalker"

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Interesting.

Was this WSJ article a sidebar to a longer piece about Yellow Rain Weapons?

I would like to read the whole thing.

a reply to: mirageman

I've done work with digital imagery as a hobbyist, using everything from photoshop filters to 3d and animation software.

When I first saw that alien autopsy video that came out in the 90s, I immediately felt it was a fake, because the grainy-ness of the video just reeked of that procedurally-generated "film grain" filter that was so commonly available in software then and since. Real film has grains of various size and orientation, and these frames of the video had too much consistent spacing and a kind of binary "on" and "off" nature to the alteration of the luma values. Also, too much of a "sepia" imposition on the color whereas real film has a lot more stochastic chroma information.

Sorry if that sounded technical.

Now, nothing I say here is intended to debunk any related UFO lore. I am 100% a believer, I just think this video is just a rather well-done hoax. Well-done, but I don't buy it, though I think there is always a chance I am wrong.

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...

Keith is on a roll.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

He certainly is. Although I don't really see where that information can take us in regards to revealing much more about the Alien Autopsy memo at present. Maybe something will come to light later on.

Keith also revealed that Don Flickinger was one of Dr. Green's advisers who was going to find him a placement in the Top Secret Alien UFO project. Funnily enough there was also an FBI agent with the same name (no relation).

Flickinger's son also imaginatively named Don Flickinger was a priest in San Jose when his father died in 1997. He was later accused of abusing young boys.. But apparently settled out of court. If it works for Michael Jackson I guess it works for the clergy too.

That doesn't get us anywhere either. I just found it was a rather bizarre twist.



I do wonder why such old and flaky stories are being revived. First it was Skinwalker, then the Lazar story and now this hoax. What next?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

So Is Jack Brewer;
An article he wrote back in 2013 - there are many parts within that article that are interesting to the whole, but I thought these excerpts were most interesting of all;

Gary Bekkum of STARstream Research has long reported on areas in which ufology overlaps with the IC. He published a 2007 piece by Gus Russo documenting how CIA and DIA men Ron Pandolfi, Paul Murad and Kit Green regularly manipulated and interacted with the UFO community, both live and online.

“What has been confounding UFO buffs for years,” Mr. Russo wrote, “is the regular presence of these well-informed 'spooks' (and others less active) in both the physical UFO world and the world of cyberspace saucers. Mr. Bekkum is the author of the book, Spies, Lies and Polygraph Tape.

Additional articles on his site include documentation of the manners members of the intelligence community directly seeded the venues of ufology with unsubstantiated statements and, by any other name, fantastic rumors. Such circumstances have permeated UFO conventions, online discussion forums and virtually every aspect of the UFO community.

Source

originally posted by: pigsy2400
He published a 2007 piece by Gus Russo documenting how CIA and DIA men Ron Pandolfi, Paul Murad and Kit Green regularly manipulated and interacted with the UFO community, both live and online.

Blue Jay & The Dolphin, eh? Sounds like the cue for a really naff 80s TV series.

Since the Dolphin claims to be married to an inter-dimensional alien female, can we assume he spent TOO much time interacting with the UFO community?

Or too much time in the CIA.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Wasn't the wife found floating down a river in a pod? Something zany.

I do wonder why such old and flaky stories are being revived. First it was Skinwalker, then the Lazar story and now this hoax. What next?

I genuinely wonder if they can’t make new fake alien stuff (bc the fake program ended during the cold war), so they rehash what they have left in the box of tricks.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Wasn't the wife found floating down a river in a pod? Something zany.

I didn't delve too deeply, Baa - the headlining details were enough to make me keel over laughing.


As for which other old and flaky stories that could be revived (as MM asked), isn't it time for dear 'ole George Adamski to come into the limelight again?

I wonder what the newbies and Young Guns would make of a new, revitalised re-telling of the world's first infamous contactee - saucers, mother-ships, cute blondes 'n' ray-guns 'n' all...