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Ted Cruz: Resolution to declare Antifa a Terrorist Organization

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posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

*shrugs*

Start a thread on it.

This one is about Antifa.




posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

It's pretty relevant to the discussion to point out that labelling Antifa as a terrorist organization would lead to the same thing happening to conservatives. You even mentioned that yourself. I also think it's relevant to point out that there are just as many, if not more, domestic terrorists on the right in order to combat the idea that Antifa and leftists are the only ones doing it.

I guess you don't have to answer my question about what to do about domestic terrorism if you think it goes too far off-topic, but I was interested in what you had to say. I can change the question so it just asks about terrorism in general, and not only right-wing extremism. I can't think of a good solution to domestic terrorism. I guess it looks like you would just use the existing criminal code and lock them up for being violent, which is okay.

With our nation being divided at the moment, and no one able to engage in civil discourse, domestic terrorism may rise on both sides, so it could be an issue that needs to be dealt with in the future.
edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 22:37:22 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

Define domestic terrorism.

Is it "hurts feels" because of free speech?



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Okay, thanks for asking about that. No, I'm not talking about hurting someone's feelings. It would have to be something serious, and violent. In this case, there was a mass-murder.


The murder of 11 Jewish worshippers at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh more than four months ago was the most deadly U.S. domestic extremist attack since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, but it was far from an isolated incident. The University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database showed that, from 2010 to 2016, right-wing inspired terrorist acts in the United States have grown from 6 percent of total domestic terror attacks to 35 percent. The Anti-Defamation League’s report, “A Dark and Constant Rage,” catalogued 150 right-wing attacks from 1993 to 2017, noting that “right-wing extremists have been one of the largest and most consistent sources of domestic terror incidents in the United States for many years.”4 The Center for Strategic and International Studies also reported that, between 2016 and 2017 alone, right-wing inspired violence had quadrupled in the United States.5


In this case, someone was planning to attack prominent Democratic politicians and cable news journalists.


In the latest example, Christopher Hasson—a self-described white nationalist Coast Guard officer—was arrested in February for planning attacks on a target list of prominent Democratic politicians and cable news journalists.6 For at least two years, Lt. Hasson visited white supremacist and neo-Nazi websites; researched biological weapons and improvised explosives; and studied far-right extremist manifestos.


www.americanp... rogress.org/issues/security/reports/2019/03/07/467022/confronting-domestic-right-wing-terrorist-threat/" target="_blank" class="postlink">Confronting the Domestic Right-Wing Terrorist Threat

What has Antifa done?

Here is one example:


The Saturday attack using Molotov cocktails setting fire to the ICE center was in retaliation to President Donald Trump’s announced Sunday ICE raid sweeps that took place in 10 cities across America.


One News Now

It doesn't seem to be as destructive as the conservative terrorists I mentioned. But it still caused damage to a building. It looks like that's the most destructive thing they have done, other than that they go around punching people. I am open to discovering more articles about this.

I would define terrorism as something dangerous or violent or destructive motivated by politics or religion, although I'm no legal expert.

As far as just speech goes, Trump has to be careful, or he will end up accelerating right-wing acts of terror with his recent divisive rhetoric. I wouldn't label him a terrorist, I would just caution him to think about the ramifications of his words, as he will be held accountable in the media for them if they result in violence. The specific ones I am talking about are the "Send her back" chants shouted by his followers at a rally in reference to Omar which he endorsed today, or the tweet where he told Congresswomen to go back to their home countries.
edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 22:50:03 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

The synagogue killing was done by an anti-Trump person.

YOU have more in common with him than most of us.


Are YOU a domestic terrorist?



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

He's still a conservative. No, are *you* saying that I'm a terrorist just because I'm against Trump? That's the very attitude we need to prevent against, and I feel like you agree with me there. I'm not saying this guy was a terrorist simply because of his political views, I'm saying he was a terrorist because he shot 11 people for political reasons.

I'm pointing out the fact that right-wing domestic terrorism is on the rise, and it's just as dangerous as Antifa, if not more so. My point is, if we do something about leftist terrorism, we'd better also do something about terrorism on the right.

I should emphasize that it is extremely dangerous to lock people up because of their political views, be they right or left.

Your idea is that we shouldn't label organizations terrorists or something of that matter, and I agree with keeping civil rights intact.

I also wanted to point out that it might be an issue in the future if we remain divided as a nation. There might be pushes to lock people up for their political views. I feel like we are both against that, for sure. We are allies in this sense. I was interested to see what your thoughts were about dealing with domestic terrorism in general if it heats up in the next few years.

We should definitely avoid locking people up for their opinions or because they hurt someone's feelings, or disagree with Trump, as you stated.

I am against violence, I owned a BB pistol at one point, but gave it away to a friend because I felt I didn't want to own it any longer. I would rather engage in discussion and use words to persuade people over violence. If I ever found myself in a dangerous situation, I would prefer to get creative and figure out a non-violent solution over being violent. I might consider learning non-lethal martial arts to be used in a defensive scenario.
edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 23:05:23 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 23:06:40 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

Right wing terrorism isn't on the rise.

It's a left-wing talking point.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I'm not sure about that, I'm finding facts that suggest otherwise.


"The extremist-related murders in 2018 were overwhelmingly linked to right-wing extremists," the report states. "Every one of the perpetrators had ties to at least one right-wing extremist movement, although one had recently switched to supporting Islamist extremism. White supremacists were responsible for the great majority of the killings, which is typically the case."

Guns were involved in the vast majority of the killings - 42 of out 50. The Anti-Defamation League's findings are consistent with other recent research on right-wing extremism in the US, which shows it's on the rise.


Business Insider: All of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism, according to new report


A new terrorism database analysis shows almost two-thirds of the terror attacks in the United States last year were carried out by right-wing extremists. Researchers and journalists for the news site Quartz said they used data compiled by the Global Terrorism Database that has tabulated terrorist events around the world since 1970. The database is supported by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), affiliated with the University of Maryland.

“A Quartz analysis of the database shows that almost two-thirds of terror attacks in the (United States) last year were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations,” its posting says.


Source
edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 23:21:53 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: darkbake


From your link. . .


The report zeroes in on incidents such as the high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, in February 2018, and the mass shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in October 2018.


So some kid who hated conservatives and an anti-Trump Nazi are right wing?


How many cars were burnt from right wing protests?
How many windows were broken and property damage from right wingers were there?

Totally ignore the Bernie-supprting softball game shooter.
Totally ignoring the gay nightclub shooter.


You just want to blame conservatives for the violence.

You're on a thread about Antifa and you engage in whataboutism.


Have you no shame?



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

They are right-wing extremists, that doesn't mean they have to be Trump supporters. I'm not ignoring the left-leaning terrorists, you are ignoring the right-leaning ones. You yourself admitted to being in denial about the facts regarding the rise of right-wing terrorism.

I'm willing to admit both sides exist and therefore we need to treat them equally. I'm blaming Antifa for Antifa's violence and conservatives for conservative violence. You, meanwhile, are trying to spin the story to get away from holding right-wing extremists accountable. I'm willing to hold Antifa accountable, although I hesitate to do so because of the effect it would have on civil rights on both sides.

About the Tree of Life shooter: An anti-Trump NAZI would be right-wing, by definition. What do you think a NAZI is? I looked him up, and he was critical of Trump, but he was also motivated, in part, by his hatred of migrants from south of the border.

Here is what I read about the Parkland shooter:


He hurled slurs at blacks and Muslims, and according to the Anti-Defamation League, had ties to white supremacists.


CNN

Where are your links showing proof that these two aren't right-wing extremists? I'm open to reading the information. Where are your links showing that right-wing extremism is not on the rise?

I'm saying if the government wants to do something about Antifa, they had better do something about right-wing terrorism, too. I'm saying that conservatives should be ready for any anti-Antifa legislation to be used to support going against right-wing terrorists, too

This is the same point that you, yourself made a while back in this thread - the only difference is that you are in denial that right-wing extremists can be terrorists.
edit on 19pmFri, 19 Jul 2019 23:47:31 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 20amSat, 20 Jul 2019 00:29:28 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 20amSat, 20 Jul 2019 00:29:39 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 02:49 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I want to say that this is a big issue right now, some are saying that Ted Cruz Bill criminalizes dissent. Let’s be clear, dissent is not terrorism, it is free speech. We could get to the point of locking up liberals for their opinions, even if they don’t have any risk for violence.

I’m going to have to research this further. But I completely agree that something like that would be unacceptable for either side to impliment.

And you have to be clear in your language, we are talking about taking away civil liberties in a brazen abandonment of the constitution.

I really do agree with you on this, so I’ll stop going on about conservative terrorists now.

But this is the kind of stuff I warned people about on ATS all the time in the 2000’s with the Patriot Act. I’m not sure when ATS turned into an anti-civil liberties place.

I do notice that at the moment, they are going after violent actors, but it’s not entirely clear. Could a person on a forum be considered a left-wing activist?
edit on 20amSat, 20 Jul 2019 02:59:01 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: projectvxn

I thought Antifa was devoted to fighting against far-right fascist type organizations who use violence to promote their agenda. Is Ted Cruz now supporting fascism and the violence far-right groups are promoting?

"The idea in Antifa is that we go where they [right-wingers] go. That hate speech is not free speech. That if you are endangering people with what you say and the actions that are behind them, then you do not have the right to do that. And so we go to cause conflict, to shut them down where they are, because we don't believe that Nazis or fascists of any stripe should have a mouthpiece."

Antifa claims hate speech endangers people.

en.wikipedia.org...(United_States)



You most definitely thought wrong

Antifa spouts hate speech, it is not against hate speech one single bit
Antifa attacks those who oppose leftist ideology. Opposing leftist ideologies is NOT hateful or fascist. Holding right wing views is perfectly acceptable.

Attacking people ‘for being right wingers’ is 100% fascist

And you say “groups who use violence to promote their agenda” while you defend antifa. A far left group that uses violence to promote its agenda.
edit on 20 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn




"The discussion of a rebellion against oppression"

Yeah, Ted. That's right. This is how you rebel against the establishment, with another resolution to protect the establishment! Do you need more FEMA camps for your Patriot Acts or would Gitmo and the Walmart's suffice for now?

"I am your father"





posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Your post doesn't contribute to the topic at all.

Please post on the topic.



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

This is not part of his rebellion against oppression?

You saw actual evidence for the crucial point, that Ted Cruise is a lying sack of Nanny State politics. It's a charmingly easy concept to deal with politiclowns in general: watch their track-record, judge them by their own deeds and scrutinize their alleged credibility.
This would most certainly apply to the topic at hand, amirite?



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I think it's fine that the KKK and the far right Nazi's can express their views but this antifa BS needs to shut up.


Lol. The KKK are socialists and the former militant arm of the Democrat party in the south. The right didn't want them a hundred years ago and the right doesn't want them now. Stop trying to tie the dirty Democrat history to Republicans, it won't work.

But then anything to the right of full fledged Communist dystopia is far right according to the measure of most "moderate" Democrats these days...



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 11:54 AM
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"Far Right National Socialist" is an oxymoron in America. It works in the European spectrum where on the left you have world socialists and on the right you have national socialists. It doesn't work stateside though because no where on the right is their socialism. It exists only on the left.

The US left right dichotomy is Majority Rule (Democrat) vs. Representative Rule (Republican). I don't care if it's world socialism, national socialism (NAZI), or Democrat socialism. Any socialism in the US is Left Wing Democrat majority rules political philosophy, which is why many on the American left at one point or another actually sided with and praised Hitler. The NY Times praised Hitler, the KKK campaigned for Democrats, and the fascists in Iran were sent billions of dollars on pallets by Democrat leadership.

But now all those sins, even slavery, belong to the Republicans???

Yeah, sorry, but that doesn't fly with anyone that has more than below average intelligence.



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Literally everyone and everything that diverges from the religion is "alt-right."

Super easy to link people and events in this way, to make everyone "not of the flock" look evil. If info comes out that puts this into question, its just tapped down by institutional means and the propagandaphiliacs will eat it up. This all may be *significantly* exacerbated by modern technology, but this is an old play.

Antifa is "of the flock," therefore righteous and good. I do believe they have terrorists in their ranks, and some I assume are good people (
).

I think the biggest factor here is their institutional support. Im not sure classifying them as a terrorist organization will make them anything more than martyrs, at this point. And, I mean that in a religious context as much as social, political, etc.

Im ambivalent about it in this current climate. It might be an accurate label, but I think it will have the opposite effect desired.



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 04:34 PM
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The bill seems to lump antifa, protesters affiliated with antifa, and left wing activists all together.

www.newsweek.com...

I imagine that if it was white supremists and separatists, protesters affiliated with them, and right wing activists you all would be screaming at the top of your lungs..



posted on Jul, 20 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

Sucks doesnt it?

2nd.







 
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