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Iowa Doesn't Only Control Politics, It Controls How We Eat

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posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: DanDanDat

For what its worth, thank you for the article and link. My apologies for any rudeness as I am a jerk in the grand scheme of things.

I wish they would have stuck to the farming issues and left out the politics, but maybe they were trying to draw in and educate an audience that would normally just gloss over important information and possibly the main point of the article, our farming practices.

I was a very hardcore free market/capitalist type person, but anymore I am not so sure. I just think that if we don't starting moralizing some of our actions, we are doomed.

Again my apologies and thank you for your time.


ClovenSky no apologize necessary; I do not think you were being a jerk. All discussion is welcome with me ... especially when I'm wrong. It's the only way to learn.

But I don't think I agree with the idea that we need to moralize issues in order to solve them. Or more precisely if we are going to moralize them we need to be careful that the practice doesn't close us off to others who might have different morals. We're all in this together and the only way we get out is together.




posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

Hmmm, that does make sense...in a very frustrating way. Maybe moralizing is why our homeless problem is so bad instead of facing simple reality.

....grrrrr ... back to the drawing board .... there just have to be some middle ground somewhere.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


Is it just me or is there something fundemantly wrong when people from New York agonize over how the people from another state live their lives?

No, it's not just you. Yankees have been trying to tell us how to run our lives ever since the first carpetbagger stole the first acre of land from a Southerner after the War of Northern Aggression. That's why we have "Yankees" and "Damn Yankees"... Yankees come to visit and just provide some irritation in return for the cash they spend; Damn Yankees come here and stay.

There is something mentally askew in anyone who would come to an area to escape the hell-hole they created at home, then immediately try to turn their new home into an identical hell-hole. Not everyone that comes here is like that, but if they have a New York accent... let's just say it's a safe bet they are.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

From your link:

The far right’s love of the markets plays into a larger fascist talking point that idealizes pastoral life and demonizes “degenerate” urban living. The contrast attempts to cast white supremacy as a purer alternative.

Really?

Really?

So if I don't want to swim in a cesspool, I'm a fascist? Well, all I can say is, the idiot that wrote that needs to mosey his happy little SJW butt out here to Alabama and tell us to our face how fascist we are for preferring clean air, clean water, and low crime. I'm sure someone will set him straight... after twisting him into a pretzel for calling them a fascist.

There's been quite a few people on here, including myself, warning about a second domestic war, this time between the cities and the country. Do we need more proof?

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Hey now, we New Yorkers don't have an accent.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:42 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Breakthestreak

He's not all bad the old trumpy, he really just seams to have an overly sensitive ego and that makes him seem childish sometimes, it is what it is.


He’s funny I rekon

He loves poking the wasp nest

Which is probably childish but I like doing it too so I can’t fault him for that.
edit on 18 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky


Farmers ego themselves into trouble by trying to keep up with the joneses. They need that brand new pickup (which some skillfully write off as business expense). They need that brand new 500,000 combine where their 5 year old one still works fine, but doesn't look as cool as a fully loaded, full suspension, AC/heating, GIS navigated computerized deviced autopilot status symbol.

They get themselves so loaded up with debt, they have to play the game to even keep solvent.

Yes, they need that new pickup because the old one is worn out and spends more time being fixed than doing a job. They need that new combine because they are spending days fixing the old one instead of harvesting crops... or is ready to catch on fire and burn down a few acres of food. That's a common problem with older combines.

You sound like someone who has absolutely no idea of what it takes to be a farmer. I'd bet good money you couldn't grow enough to feed yourself, much less enough to feed all the other families who don't farm. But I'll give you credit for one thing: you are very good at bitching about how others do it!

Farmers work from sunup to well after sundown, 7 days a week, trying to eek out a living from the ground and in doing so feed you and everyone else. They have to expend huge sums of money to keep up with the factory farms that churn out low-quality, high-quantity food lookalikes that people like you will gladly pay for because they cost less and come in purty cans. They own massive tracts of land, lease even more, and have to have a wide assortment of equipment. A farmer can't just have equipment for one crop; they have to rotate crops to keep the ground fertile. The farmers around here may grow corn this year, soybeans the next, cotton the year after that, and wheat the year after that. Every crop requires special equipment to tend and harvest.

For all this, they make a good living.

A factory farm doesn't care about the soil... they'll just throw more fertilizer on it. A factory farm doesn't care if that corn is nutritious or not... it's yellow and will sell. They make massive profits by taking shortcuts that drain the soil and harm the ecology. But yeah, keep talking down the real farmers that do a hard job you wouldn't do. It's OK... it's just a bunch of dumb farmers, right?

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Truth bomb there that many small independent farmers appreciate!



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: DanDanDat


Watch out Iowa ... some people on the coast don't like you very much.


I read the article. Absolutely nothing in the article suggests that the author doesn't like Iowans. The author's problem is with the government regs that govern farming, creating the mess we have now, affecting not just Iowans... and not just farmers in Iowa... but the entire country.

Yet somehow you missed all that.


This is whst i read as well. Id like to rant for twelve paragraphs ripping the commerce clause and futures market gaming apart but ill spare the community this time.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: seeker1963

I have close kin who are farmers... literally thousands of acres around here, and while they are not indigent by any means, they are not exactly wealthy either. But they have literally hundreds of thousands of dollars wrapped up in equipment and millions in land both owned through the farm trust and leased. Why do they stay at it? Because it's in their blood. It's what they do. They've farmed for generations, and all those assets were accumulated over those generations. They like to farm.

If they buy new equipment, you can be sure one of two things is happening: they either need it because they can't handle the crops fast enough, or one of their old pieces of equipment broke down too much to bother fixing. My cousin is up at the crack of dawn heading out to the fields and only comes home after the sun sets. Then he's usually in their shop for a while fixing and maintaining equipment until he has to get to bed to get up the next morning. Crops don't wait around until the weather breaks. You have a certain time range that you either harvest the crops or watch them rot in the field. You have a specific window when you can plant a crop and it have time to mature before frost kills it off. You can only do so much in the rain, so you work based on the weather. if your window of time is during a rainy spell, an equipment breakdown is lost crops.

It was a couple of years ago I spotted one of their combines sitting off by itself at the edge of a field, burned out. I asked about it the next time we talked. They had tried to get one more year out of it before buying a new one, and it had caught fire as they were using it. They managed to save some of the crop they harvested, but it was a total loss for the combine, and it took a few acres of field with it before the fire department could get out there to help put it out.

I get that people don't understand how hard a family farmer has to work. I don't expect them to know the ins and outs of the business; even I don't know them all. But it irks me when these same people who have no idea what a farmer goes through and why they do what they do condemn them for things that make no sense in the light of reality. The family farm is one of our most precious resources; without it, we would all be going hungry.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: DanDanDat


Must be a new angle the Progs are going for. Hadn't seen this one, but the loving Communists @ The Daily Beast just put out one of their brilliantly unthought out pieces...
In public they sell organic vegetables. In private they join white supremacist groups. Now activists are pushing back.


HONK HONK


Honk honk indeed.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 05:42 AM
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a reply to: ClovenSky


I am a dreamer. I think our approach to food is a travesty. Unless you consider all endeavors of man to be good if judged solely by profit, then DAMMMMMNNNN we are doing a bang up job.


YUP! That's about it. I know they still keep their own chickens and have their own veggie plots for themselves, and they still trade with their neighbors... but commercially, it's a whole different story. I know one cousin has gone to pig farming, and another to sheep, and they're trying to get away from crops because it's become such a drain. It's really a shame. And all down to crony capitalism and regulatory capture by Big Ag.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: drewlander


This is whst i read as well. Id like to rant for twelve paragraphs ripping the commerce clause and futures market gaming apart but ill spare the community this time.


I hope one day you do! I think that would actually be a very interesting OP... I'd read and comment, and probably learn much. I just know enough to know it's bad at this point. And Monsanto (now Bayer) is much of the problem. Just the revolving door between Monsanto/the FDA/the USDA is a thread in itself. And a very worthy topic for ATS.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

And for many farmers, like my cousins, farming is a second job, not the main one. So they do all that grinding work as a sideline, not their main source of income.

I also love how they rip the cattle thing. That's Iowa. Flint Hills are a little different. You don't see intensive crop agriculture there as much, and acres and acres of cattle grazing on pasture. Feedlots are a side effect of the American love for grain fed, well marbled beef. In order to finish beef with grain, you need the cattle not to move as much and to eat all they can. It's the last step before they go on to slaughter - about 5 months or so.

We can argue about the ethics of that, but until you change the liking for grain fed/finished beef, that's the process. The reality is that most of a cow's life is spent out to pasture somewhere other than an Iowa (or other) feedlot.
edit on 19-7-2019 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 06:23 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


Well I do apologize if you dislike my attitude; perhaps we can talk about that further.


I'd like that... it would be a conversation worthy of ATS and making posts on ATS worthy again.


But I simply disagree with you that this article's only goal is too discuss the best way to practice agriculture.


I don't think the author has enough gray matter to figure out the best way to practice agriculture, and in large part because he does seem to have a huge White-privilege-guilt-chip on his shoulder. I would say if he held anything against farmers, it's because they didn't confide all their woes in this city slicker with an attitude.

But of all the things he did write about, you chose to focus on what you could frame as personal hate for all Iowans. Instead of highlighting the problems with the system, you chose to talk trash about the author... any five-year-old can do that. Big whoop. Does anyone have a better understanding of farming and our food supply and how it's been compromised and poisoned (literally) by crony capitalism? Nope. Because you just wanted to talk trash about the author because he didn't -- what? Praise those poor farmers enough? Cry enough for the farmers? I really don't know.

On a greater level, did this OP in any way serve to "deny ignorance"? Does it inform and educate in any way? Did you break down his criticisms of the system in any way for better understanding of the issues? Because talking trash about the author doesn't fix anything... just piles on to the b.s.

How did the system get to be what it is? Government. Where is the real problem? Government. Who made it happen? Government. Who has the power to change it? Government.

At least the author brought up the problems and addressed them as well as he probably could. You didn't even do that much. In fact, seems to me that you did pretty much what you accused him of doing.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

The author has the typical coastal attitude toward people who live in flyover.

We're dumb and uneducated and just don't know what's best for us like uber-educated city-folk do.

He has all the problems figured out and lays them out in condescending language while offering no actual solutions. Did you miss that part?



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I understand your criticism of my OP; If I did not convey my thoughts on the subject I wanted to talk about clear enough at the onset for you to understand I do apologize. Let me explain it better.

I am personally not intrested in talking about the best practices of agriculture; I do not have enough gray matter on the subject to do so correctly. And if I did I wouldn't start such a subject in the mud pit. You do seem interested and knowledgable in that particular subject so I invite you to start a thread on it; I look forward to reading it.

Howerver the scientific subject mater is not what I wanted to discuss. The sciencetifc subject mater could have been on any subject from Agricultur in rural areas to Zoning regulations in urban areas and my OP would have been the same.

What I want to discuss is the increasing additude among the US citizenry to believe their opinions are so important and righteous that they believe it excuses bad social behavior (As was demonstrated by the author of this article and creator of the linked to podcast.). And how this bad social behavior is very detrimental to any progress we might have when debating the best practices on scientific issues such as Agricultur or Zoning regulations

You are absolutely right that a five-year-old can so easily understand this concept of civility and probably would have a lot to tell us on the subject if we adults where willing to listen. However this fact does not make this a glib subject and in my opinion our bad social behavior is worse than any problems we might be facing in agricultural; because it transcends that one issue and touches all issues we face in this country.

By having this conversation we can "deny ignorance" in the fact that how we deliver our messages and opinions may be just as important, if not more important, than the subject matter itself. If we fail to create an atmosphere where people are willing to listen to our opinions than its completely useless if we have any of the solutions.

The author of this article and creator of the podcast may have "brought up the problems and addressed them" but they certainly did not do us "as well as [they] probably could". They delivered them in the worst way they probably could and as a result I guaranty that the only people willing to listen to them are other New Yorkers with White-privilege-guilt-chips on their shoulders ... clearly not the people who wil be the ones to fix any issues with agriculture in Iowa.

Unfortunately people like the author and podcast creator have an outsized role in shaping the debates we have in this country and in our media.

I hope I have explained my opinion on the linked article and podcast better this time.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

The author has the typical coastal attitude toward people who live in flyover.


And? So what?


We're dumb and uneducated and just don't know what's best for us like uber-educated city-folk do.


I'll bet that ain't the worst thing midwest folks have been called... and I'll bet it isn't the first time or the only time or the last time. Who the frick cares? Why would anyone care? He has no power over you or anyone else. Well, except that power you give him. As in, "oh no! someone said something mean! poor poor me -- whatever will I do??? I know! I'll talk trash too!!! That's it... yeah, that'll make EVERYTHING all better."


He has all the problems figured out and lays them out in condescending language while offering no actual solutions. Did you miss that part?


Did YOU miss the part where I said pretty much exactly that? So you think the solution is talking trash about him? Not those problems? What solutions did the OP offer? What solutions did you offer? Oh, that's right... none. Just crying because someone said something mean. Boo hoo.

As long as the go to response to talking trash is just talking trash back, then that's all we've got. Trash talk. And we all know where that gets us: the political critters and CEOs are laughing all the way to the bank. I can guarantee you far worse has been said about critters and CEOs, and I can also guarantee they don't waste their time caring one whit.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


I understand your criticism of my OP; If I did not convey my thoughts on the subject I wanted to talk about clear enough at the onset for you to understand I do apologize. Let me explain it better.


Thank you for being big enough to give my response some thought and consideration. I am duly impressed and appreciate that. You have my respect for that.


By having this conversation we can "deny ignorance" in the fact that how we deliver our messages and opinions may be just as important, if not more important, than the subject matter itself. If we fail to create an atmosphere where people are willing to listen to our opinions than its completely useless if we have any of the solutions. The author of this article and creator of the podcast may have "brought up the problems and addressed them" but they certainly did not do us "as well as [they] probably could". They delivered them in the worst way they probably could and as a result I guaranty that the only people willing to listen to them are other New Yorkers with White-privilege-guilt-chips on their shoulders ... clearly not the people who wil be the ones to fix any issues with agriculture in Iowa.


And that would have been a very worthy OP. So show the author how to do it right!!!

By all means, do point out the White-privilege-guilt-chip on his shoulder and how it colors his article but provides no real solutions to the root problems. Point out how the author is far too focused on the farmers, which he knows have been "trapped" within a system which is tailored to serve the interests of Big AG, rather than the best farming practices or the best food supply system for the people. Take it to the next level and point out that cannabis -- industrial or otherwise -- is not just a healthy food product with medicinal qualities, but also a viable fuel, and that cannabis roots/stalks can be plowed right back into the soil and condition the soil and make it healthier for the next round of crops -- whatever it is. Point out that the Big Ag patents on naturally occurring genes in food crops have grossly limited not just the farmers' options, but our options for food and fuel as well, and our poisoning people in the process.

You are an ATSer. Be bigger than the author. Show the author -- and the world! -- how it's done.



posted on Jul, 19 2019 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
And not to be totally for the farmers because there is a lot of stupidity to go around. Farmers ego themselves into trouble by trying to keep up with the joneses. They need that brand new pickup (which some skillfully write off as business expense). They need that brand new 500,000 combine where their 5 year old one still works fine, but doesn't look as cool as a fully loaded, full suspension, AC/heating, GIS navigated computerized deviced autopilot status symbol.

They get themselves so loaded up with debt, they have to play the game to even keep solvent.



Exactly, I saw/see it all the time, the “poor me, Sky is falling” farmer buying a new F350 truck every year with tax free farm tags. But has fancy rims and drives on our public roads, never seeing a dirt road, until next years trade in for a newer Platinum. Brick 5,000 square feet home with pool, with a discreetly hidden Corvette and Harley in the garage.

Crop duster operators just as bad or worse, can spend that money fast enough on “toys”

I see a sticker all the time, “Enjoyed your lunch? Thank a Cropduster” WTF. Yeah like I want poison on my food.

Iowa isn’t the only state, it’s all of the Midwest states, including all of the eastern states as well. Corn and soybeans, mixed in with winter wheat.

Farmers complaining at the local hang out that they can’t get their subsidy checks fast enough, or the insurance company is too slow in paying off their loss crops. Win win for the farmer.
edit on 19-7-2019 by 38181 because: (no reason given)




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