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Should all women be believed???

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posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

Should people be considered guilty until proven innocent?




posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:08 PM
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By default all human lives should be considered innocent of crimes until proven guilty. All accusations made by any human against any other human must be considered false until they are proven credible with evidence. Don't bring in male, female, black, white, Muslim, Catholic, any other unique distinguishing avail.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:09 PM
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This may help to understand why its a good idea.
The number of unreported rapes is nearly half of actual sexual assaults committed.
Women are often reluctant to report for many reasons mostly because of a fear they will not be believed.
If half the women who are raped are not reporting it how many would be willing to go through something like that to falsely accuse someone?
Just a thought.
www.nij.gov...



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Again... is it par for the course for conservatives to just respond without reading the OP or actually providing a counterpoint?!?!

I mean it fits and would explain why such bad logic is so wide spread... but damn


Wow. You were provided counterpoints. They just went over your head. Again and again and again. What you are really asking -- in practice and effect -- is if we should just do away with investigations, evidence, and trials. Should we just "believe" or "not believe." You received a resounding "no."

For "context," it is not an either/or situation... our choices are not limited to either "believing" or "not believing." If a crime is reported, the fact is that a crime has been reported, not that a crime actually occurred. Nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing to "believe" at that point.

Rather, the reported crime should be properly investigated, and determined if there is enough evidence to bring charges, and this evidence is provided to a jury, who then decides based on the evidence if the reported crime was committed.

If the crime cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury upon examination of evidence, then the verdict must be "not guilty." It is not up to a jury to decide who they "believe," but only what can and has been proven with evidence. Even if any/all jurors "believe" a crime took place.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

All women should be heard.
But so should all men.

Women like the one in the duke university lacrosse case dont help the cause of real victims.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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"Should all women be believed???

yes.

at some point in every womens life they should be believed.

just not every point.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny


That is all having to give someone the benefit of the doubt.


Benefit of the doubt is a personal sediment. Court of law has no room for that.

Not everything is black and white, and there is more nuance to this than giving one party more benefit of the doubt than the other. I'm sure if I sat down and reviewed a bunch of cases, I'd give benefit of the doubt to the accuser more times than not, but that does not equate to evidence or proof of anything.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Shouldn't an investigation be done in every case?
Sure she could be lying. But how will we know if it is just assumed that its a false accusation?



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Again... is it par for the course for conservatives to just respond without reading the OP or actually providing a counterpoint?!?!


I mean it fits and would explain why such bad logic is so wide spread... but damn


Your thread is the classic 'I have a question, but already have my answer' we've seen before that is full of misconceptions.

You're asking the question about benefit of the doubt like it means something. Which means you think like a leftist. You think people should be tried in the court of public opinion. The #metoo movement isn't just about rape anyway. You're trying to be a good leftist, but you don't even understand the thing you're trying to defend.

Remember how you were for Trump before he brought the Clinton accuser party to the debate? How you were a big fan before he brought those women? Sound familiar? How about them?



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: 0zzymand0s

So what happens if sex is granted in exchange for a promotion and then the promotion is never given? Is that considered rape?

What happens if sex is granted with the belief that marriage will soon follow and the other partner ends up fleeing, is that considered rape?

Maybe it is time to go back to the values of yesteryear and the prudish. It appeared the lines between consent and force were much clearer. Except for the sexless marriages where one partner was willing and one wasn't, that one always confused me.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

What kind of investigation are we talking about?
Just talking to the man?
Complete investigation into his past relationships?

What would be the standard?



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: network dude

Shouldn't an investigation be done in every case?
Sure she could be lying. But how will we know if it is just assumed that its a false accusation?


I know I won't get any intelligence from you, but could you point to where I said that?

I think any case should be investigated, and the liar should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
If a guy rapes a girl, and it can be proven, he's done. Even if he's a nice guy, or some rich guy. But by the same token, (and keeping the Duke LaCross team in mind) if a girl lies about rape, and it can be proven, she needs to be done and made a huge example out of. It's not cool to ruin reputations forever because you think you can get some attention and a few bucks.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:24 PM
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So “should all women be believed?? “ a reply to: JustJohnny

I believe that Led Zep said it all... The soul of the woman was created below



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

No. Rape is still rape. It might be breach of contract if one were allowed to contract for sexual services.

Nope. How do you prove the partner didn't flee when they determined the sex was super bad and the chemistry was wrong? Or even when, (anytime) after the sex (but before the marriage), one partner determines that the other is unsuitable for marriage for completely unrelated reasons?

I'm with you. Rape is a real thing and it used to involve fairly concrete and immutable characteristics, but the lines have been blurred. I don't know that we can go back to the values of yesteryear but we certainly need to examine the motives of any philosophy that suggests accusers never lie.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

Physical evidence of trauma to the vulva. Bruising on arms and legs indicating someone being held down. Other injuries that indicate someone has been forcefully detained or beaten.
Yes these can be indicative of rough consensual sex but go a long way to the accusation of sexual assault.
In a case of rape it will seldom simply be he said she said. There will very likely be physical evidence if it happened.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny




So “should all women be believed?? “

No.
I have had a number of them lie to me.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:29 PM
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Ask Crystal Mangum about believing all women........
Or Julie Swetnick .....
Or Tawana Brawley......

edit on 18/7/2019 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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How about we investigate and wait for evidence while respecting the rights of all parties involved?

Sorry, does that not fit in a hashtag? Not catchy enough?

Here's a hashtag:

#dueprocess



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: loam

I agree and my own arguments only go to investigating an accusation. It does not assume guilt.
That is up to a judge and jury.
But the police should certainly err on the side of caution and at least investigate every claim. Its not up to them to assume any kind of innocence or guilt.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 01:34 PM
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NOBODY should automatically believe ANYONE when it comes to things like this.







 
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