Is spirituality possible without religion?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God has a spirit, we have a spirit, and angels have/are spirits.

"God is a Spirit" says John 4:24 (KJV, NW, Darby, YLT, Webster, etc.). Being a Spirit is not the same thing as having a spirit.

But there are different ways the Bible uses the word "spirit", with different definitions or meanings. The above quoted text is speaking about being a spirit being, as opposed to being a physical being. The same is said about angels being spirits, or spirit beings.

Now another sense the word "spirit" is used has to do with mental attitudes (still used that way in modern English). In that case you can talk about a person having a particular spirit/mental attitude. But that's not what you are talking about when talking about God, us and angels having a spirit, or having spirits.

More info (this article does not address the meaning for "spirit" that I just described, but it does address yet another meaning that is different from the meaning "spirit being"; it also addresses the misconception that "spirit" is just another word for "soul", which is the way you seem to have used the word in the sentence above, since you also believe the ones you mentioned have souls):

“Soul” and “Spirit”​—What Do These Terms Really Mean?

a reply to: whereislogic

Most versions of John 4:24 say:
God is spirit...... not God is 'a' spirit.

What difference does it make???

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Hence me naming a bunch of translations, including the well respected and used KJV, defended by Deetermined in ChesterJohn's thread about that subject, that have "a Spirit".

The reality that Bible translators tend to favor a rendering that facilitates their theological doctrines is no big news here. This is especially true for Tinitarian translators that teach the doctrines involved with the immortality of the soul, a word that they too conflate with "spirit". The immaterial part of man that survives the death of the physical body, however they refer to it. Which is not a Bible teaching. Or they are keeping people somewhat in the dark regarding the different meanings and usages of the word "spirit", misinterpreting one type of usage for another type (often to make a text fit in better with their eisegesis).

And even if it's rendered "God is spirit", that's still not the same as saying that God has a spirit or soul (or an immaterial part that can be separated from the rest). Which was the main point I was making to deetermined, since that is what he believes regarding "us" (humans).

There isn't a huge difference in the 2 renderings, but the "a Spirit" rendering makes it much more clear that we're talking about a spirit being as opposed to a physical being (like humans); making it harder to keep people in the dark about this and conflate concepts such as souls and spirits, using the words and accompanying concepts interchangeably. Confusing people in the process and promoting this notion of people having an immaterial part that survives the death of the physical body.

Not sure if the description "most versions" applies to what you said though. Maybe if you change that too "most of the crappy ones", but I'm not sure I wanna go there cause then I perhaps have to get into why I consider the NIV for example as a crappy one and the ASV for example as a pretty good one (the former having "is spirit" and the latter "is a Spirit"). Too many translations to really accurately determin what is "most" in this case. And one may want to consider the sheer popularity of the KJV and bibles based on this translation (such as the ASV) in all this.

Just as a summary for clarification, when the Bible says that individuals like God or angels are spirits, then it's speaking about them being spirit beings, being made up of spirit, rather than anything physical or material. Humans are not spirits in this sense, so one shouldn't conflate the notions that angels are spirits with human beings having a soul or spirit, as Deetermined somewhat did (implied, or at least thinking of it as such in the sentence he used, giving that impression).

a reply to: whereislogic

God is spirit could mean the entire thingless thing.....this that is.

Whereas 'God is a spirit' implies there is more than God.

a reply to: whereislogic

God is not a being...... God is being.

God is being all that is.

Life is appearing as it is.... What is happening is happening.

There isn't any thing other than happening (being).... this is so immediate it requires no thought... it surpasses understanding.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

No, the God the Bible describes is a living (spirit) being*, an individual, a person. A spirit to be more specific about His nature (one of His attributes). That is the God Deetermined was talking about in the sentence I was responding to.

*: "being" as used here is not a verb, but a noun that means "a living thing", "especially: person" (definition 3 from Merriam-Webster).

You are using the word quite differently now. Which is just confusing the issue.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Itisnowagain

No, the God the Bible describes is a living (spirit) being*, an individual, a person. A spirit to be more specific about His nature (one of His attributes).

God is spirit or God is a separate spirit?



This that is... life, is the living being.

Just because you believe you are divided from the whole does not mean you are.......it is just ideas and concepts that make the belief possible.

What is happening is!!!!!!

You are using the word quite differently now. Which is just confusing the issue.

Everything is being what it is.....one without a second.
The One is what actually is.... The way the truth and the life..... this that is.

a reply to: whereislogic

God is not a person.

Apparent people appear within the image of God.

The ever present ever chaning image that is visible is Christ.... Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.

There is nothing other than what is appearing to happen.... this is it.... no thing, just happening... isness... suchness.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Creep Thumper

Why do you reflect your relation with God on a book?

Do you understand your own irony?

a reply to: Creep Thumper

Oh, so you don't. Fine.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Creep Thumper

Oh, so you don't. Fine.

You might want to audit a few psychology and philosophy classes at the local "U".

What I'm seeing is a pathetic effort to spar with me based on Bronze/Iron Age concepts.

a reply to: Creep Thumper

Then who or what were you talking about with these bronze/iron age concepts you were mentioning?

Anything wrong with our ancestors of that time and what they knew?

Sorry, I don't believe we evolved from neanderthal.

Is this ad hominem:

originally posted by: Creep Thumper


What I'm seeing is a pathetic effort to spar with me based on Bronze/Iron Age concepts.

Or were you kindly pointing out to me as an atheist that I'm wrong, somehow deranged and pretty much pathetic?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: miri2019

God is holy...... God is the whole.
The way the truth and the life.

Agreed, true words.

There is no thing separate.

I think there needs to be some context to that general statement so we can have an opinion on. For example we see a unity in the physical nature, atoms which are made of the same components, are the foundation of the matter, but a step higher than atoms we see the differentiation of the matter.

originally posted by: miri2019

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: miri2019

God is holy...... God is the whole.
The way the truth and the life.

I think there needs to be some context to that general statement so we can have an opinion on. For example we see a unity in the physical nature, atoms which are made of the same components, are the foundation of the matter, but a step higher than atoms we see the differentiation of the matter.

The ocean may appear as waving on the surface... but deeper down it is still ocean.

I'm not afraid of fading.

Spirits are what we would call matrix entities. They are programmed by the matrix and they are designed to take source players energies by misleading source players.