Is spirituality possible without religion?

a reply to: Creep Thumper

People know what is right and wrong some not knowing right from wrong.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Creep Thumper

People know what is right and wrong some not knowing right from wrong.

That is the failure of parenting and socialization. There will be those who fall through the cracks.

Religions are a signpost to spirituality that eventually comes to a dead end. At a certain stage we need turn our backs to all the dogma so we can immerse our essence into spirituality.

Jesus said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Think of it as we aren't looking for answers, but we are answering something for someone/something else.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
You know, you'd think spirituality has something to do with a spirit and wisdom not from earth gained from (a) spirit(s).

I see no spirit anywhere while some say they they are invisible.

What if people in contact with spirit(s) wrote what these entit(y)(ies) had to say and ended up with a religion that way?

How delusional must one be not to believe in the existence of spirits?

Humans gain knowledge of the earth, like science and agriculture. Is there really nothing more to this existence than eating and driving your car or making smartphones in a factory?

How would you know people own a spirit?

If spirits existed they must have been here since the beginning. Is it possible they created man?

Or are spirits just stories people made up to scare their children?

Is religion from spirits or is Trump president of the USA?

Absolutely. I consider myself very spiritual but I am wholly against organised religion.

originally posted by: glend
Religions are a signpost to spirituality that eventually comes to a dead end. At a certain stage we need turn our backs to all the dogma so we can immerse our essence into spirituality.

Jesus said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Once again, it's all about the context...

Matthew 18:2-6

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Matthew 21:15-16

15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,

16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these (children) say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Psalm 8:1-2

1 O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

For people who believe in the absolute truth of philosophical materialism spirituality simply does not exist. All that exists is the material World.

The thing is we do not live in a clockwork Universe. When you look at double slit type experiments in quantum mechanics what exactly is the IT the determines something is being observed? Who or what is observing something is being observed!! I think one is being delusional to think we live in a material World when the evidence from double slit experiments is pointing to something completely different.

a reply to: Deetermined

ok, lets break the scripture down.

3 "Except ye be converted, AND become as little children"

The "And " tells us that there are two conditions. One is not the other.

Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

'become as little children" has been further expanded by including the word 'humble" like a child. As children we are very humble and receptive to knowledge of this world. In the same way we should be humble and receptive in receiving spirituality.

We can both agree that knowledge of the world is learned by our brain
Where we seem to differ is I believe knowledge of spirituality is received by the soul (aka light), through love. Whereas you believe its still received by the brain from the bible.

And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

Whoever is kind to children of God will be rewarded.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Whoever is unkind to Children of God will be punished.

a reply to: glend

The "And " tells us that there are two conditions. One is not the other.

While one is not the other, they BOTH apply. That's the only point I'm making. "Converted" and "humble".

While those who treat "children of God" well will be rewarded, it still requires the other person to be "converted" as well.

These are just simple points that shouldn't be overlooked when using scriptures from the Bible. Context is everything.

a reply to: Deetermined

Sorry thought you were arguing the "humble" bit. "Converted" in the text without any interpretation as to what it really means sounded a bit iffy. So I looked it up in the oldest bible. Its seems "converted" was something added after the fourth century.

It was also added to Matthew 13:15, Luke 22:32, John 12:40 after the fourth century.

Looks like Rome didn't want the unconverted to believe they could attain spirituality.

18:1 In that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who then is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens? 2 And calling a little child to him, he placed it in the midst of them, 3 and said: Verily I say to you, unless you turn and become as little children, you shall in no way enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 4 Whoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens. 5 And whoever shall receive one such little child in my name, receives me. 6 But whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that an upper millstone were hung about his neck and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Alas for the world because of offenses; for it is necessary that offenses come, yet alas for the man through whom the offense comes.

Codex Sinaiticus.

Nobody can prove the objective existence of anything whatsoever without being able to measure it by our senses or our technologically extended senses.

You can however subjectively prove, to your self anything at all.

Spirituality is an individual path with twists and turns, ups and downs and an ever evolving understanding. It is not an either/or questions but a neither/both answer - hence all the contradictions.

a reply to: ARM1968

What are you thoughts on the Bible? I think it has wisdom and knowledge.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
For people who believe in the absolute truth of philosophical materialism spirituality simply does not exist. All that exists is the material World.

I assume they get confronted with a lot of evil in this world.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Possible !!!!! Its a foundational necessity.

a reply to: glend

Sorry thought you were arguing the "humble" bit. "Converted" in the text without any interpretation as to what it really means sounded a bit iffy. So I looked it up in the oldest bible. Its seems "converted" was something added after the fourth century.

Even if the word "converted" was added, it doesn't change the meaning from the original "turn" that you show once you put it into context with the rest of the verses.

It was also added to Matthew 13:15, Luke 22:32, John 12:40 after the fourth century.

These are prime examples. Go read the entire chapters related to these verses and it's clear that "turn" or "converted" has to do with an issue of "faith" and "belief" of who Jesus/God was.

John 12:39-42

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

a reply to: Deetermined

Even if the word "converted" was added, it doesn't change the meaning from the original "turn" that you show once you put it into context with the rest of the verses

Every word has a variety of senses and connotations. 'Converted' can mean disciple. That was not the strict interpretation of "unless you turn and become as little children". But I am not saying that belief in Jesus is wrong in any way or form. I am suggesting that religious dogma can result in belief of Jesus. But once belief has been attained then religious dogma can be a roadblock to ones spirituality.

How can one totally submit to the Fathers will, if they still under the preconceptions of their own will.

a reply to: glend

I am suggesting that religious dogma can result in belief of Jesus. But once belief has been attained then religious dogma can be a roadblock to ones spirituality.

Not when you believe that true spirituality comes from the Holy Spirit, which testifies of Jesus/God.

How can one totally submit to the Fathers will, if they still under the preconceptions of their own will.

Doing the Father's will is a choice that's made through one's own free will. Submitting to the Father's will doesn't prohibit me from choosing to do so. We all have a choice to accept it or reject it.

When the people asked Jesus how they should pray, He told them that they should pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. When our own free will interferes with God's, it causes problems and chaos. We should strive to align our will with God's.

a reply to: Deetermined

My eyes instantly glaze over when someone quotes a "holy book".

Try harder to engage your brain instead of relying on the old rancid.

It bores the rest of us to death.

a reply to: Creep Thumper

My eyes instantly glaze over when someone quotes a "holy book".

Being "Holy" isn't for everyone.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Creep Thumper

My eyes instantly glaze over when someone quotes a "holy book".

Being "Holy" isn't for everyone.

When it comes to Homo sapiens, none of them are holy.

And your divine "God" is a murdering, sadistic, psychopath. Read the book again, objectively, if you can.

He's a spiteful SOB who does not deserve a whit of attention or adoration.