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What Medium is Propagating Electromagnetic Waves?

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posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: AntonGonist

Sure angry little boy, don't maintain or make any effort for your thread then.

Angry little boy.




posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: AntonGonist



According to science there is a universal field so there is no void space. Literally noone not even here agrees with you.


Then quote a source.

Again. Things must be of this “fabric of reality” to “exist”.

And you didn’t quote the whole statement to provide context....

Again. Take a given area of outer space void of mass and essential radiation free. Or create a vacuum in a shielded tank to be radiation free.

A specific modulated electromagnetic radiation signal passes through that space under its own propagation.

The reference space is still void of mass, and once again free of radiation after the passing of the specific modulated electromagnetic wave.

So what did that reference space provide as a medium for the modulated electromagnetic wave to travel through?

edit on 18-7-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

Thats rich since you were one of the main factors that stopped the on topic discussion, constantly burying relevant posts. Hop along.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux




Then quote a source.


en.wikipedia.org...


In physics, a unified field theory (UFT) is a type of field theory that allows all that is usually thought of as fundamental forces and elementary particles to be written in terms of a pair of physical and virtual fields. According to the modern discoveries in physics, forces are not transmitted directly between interacting objects, but instead are described and interrupted by intermediary entities called fields.




not transmitted directly




intermediary entities




called fields.




Now you back up your "electric and magnetic wave packing and sprinkling x-ray flying through the void of space", ok.



edit on 18-7-2019 by AntonGonist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: AntonGonist
a reply to: neutronflux




Then quote a source.


en.wikipedia.org...


In physics, a unified field theory (UFT) is a type of field theory that allows all that is usually thought of as fundamental forces and elementary particles to be written in terms of a pair of physical and virtual fields. According to the modern discoveries in physics, forces are not transmitted directly between interacting objects, but instead are described and interrupted by intermediary entities called fields.




not transmitted directly




intermediary entities




called fields.




Now you back up your "electric and magnetic wave packing and sprinkling x-ray flying through the void of space", ok.




You do know they measure X-ray radiation from space. Right......



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

So you have nothing to say in response to the link you asked for nor can you back up your nonsense. Just an irrelevant and incompetent non response. Time for you to hop along too.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: AntonGonist

Better than that. Xrays through the void between galaxies.



GALAXIES, X-RAY EMISSION

Giuseppina Fabbiano

The study of the x-ray emission of normal galaxies is a very recent part of astronomy. This work has been made possible by the sensitive x-ray imaging observations of the Einstein (HEAO 2) satellite, launched by NASA in November 1978.

ned.ipac.caltech.edu...



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: AntonGonist
a reply to: neutronflux

So you have nothing to say in response to the link you asked for nor can you back up your nonsense. Just an irrelevant and incompetent non response. Time for you to hop along too.


Haven’t had time to read through your cited source to see how you butchered context again.

But it is a theory. Would you care to state the difference between theory and science law......



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Wow. Where does it it say that space is a void and that there is no underlying field. We are not debating wether or not xray can move through space. You are simply impossible. You are simply incapable of a logical discussion that is based on a mutual understanding of the discussed topic. Stunning Dunning.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

So sad. You ask for a mainstream source. I provide it and it backs up what I said but you simply dismiss it as a theory while your fantasy drivel is not even a theory.


According to the modern discoveries in physics, forces are not transmitted directly between interacting objects, but instead are described and interrupted by intermediary entities called fields.


What part do you not accept or understand.


edit on 18-7-2019 by AntonGonist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux




Would you care to state the difference between theory and science law......


Can you state what science law states that there is not a universal field?



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:07 PM
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Before getting into a discussion, I would like to know where the quotes in your original post come from that you are so hung up on? You are assuming they are correct?



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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AntonGonist my friend,

I really enjoyed reading this thread. I am glad you have not given up, because I traveled the same path as you and discovered things beyond imagination. It takes a solid combination of philosophy, logic, reason, and science to reach the truth. Unfortunately, some only use science.

This thread is a classic example of the hurdles one must go through to discover the truth. You will get people who think they know, but they really don't, but it doesn't stop them from talking down to you, and taking a false position of authority. They even avoid answering your questions and tell you to read a book, meaning, they don't know and they can't admit it.

It's funny to watch people say light can travel/propagate through a vacuum. They don't realize a perfect vacuum is defined as being void of all matter and energy. That means, as soon as light enters this perfect vacuum, it is no longer a perfect vacuum. That is because light is energy, and a vacuum is supposed to be void of energy. Therefore, light can't exist in a vacuum, because the existence of light defines the opposite of a vacuum. You see? I am sure you do. Congrats, this is the point other minds short circuit and default back to some learned response that takes them in circles. After all, a short circuit is a closed loop, a short one.

The truth is, there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum. There is no such thing as "nothingness". Some energy will always exist in whatever area you claim is a perfect vacuum. In fact, you can't prove an area is a perfect vacuum without measuring it, and the act of measuring it destroys the vacuum. In reality, nothingness does not exist. As soon as you define "nothingness" it becomes "something". However, in mathematics it exists, its defined as zero. There is even debate on what zero really means. But, just because we can define it doesn't mean it exists. It only exists as a concept. This is where the fun starts...

Many believe the fabric of reality started at 0 (nothingness) and then formed into the seemingly vast and infinite space we observe (something). What really happened is the fabric of reality started at 1 (something), and it was divided into infinite parts (a lot of somethings). This paragraph is more important than you can imagine, because you know very well you can't get something from nothing.

Since we can't ignore the illusion of duality - if "something" exists we intuitively assume the opposite exists called "nothingness". That idea of duality stems from math. If we say 1 exists we assume we can subtract 1 to end up with 0. That is not how reality works. Reality started with 1 and was divided infinitely. You can subtract all you want, but there will always be one infinitely small piece left. That small piece must remain because there is nothing else around to subtract it. Think about that a bit longer.

By now you should see the fine line between existing and not existing. Nothing and something. The great paradox of reality. The ultimate question. You might conclude this alludes to the existence of "something" that both "exists" and "not exists" simultaneously. If you made it this far, good. Lets move ahead...

You are right. Light is a wave, and it does require "something" to propagate. Maxwell and other greats like Tesla were capable of so much because they knew this with certainty. Maxwell's equations were based on it really. They had to give it a name, and it was called the aether. However, it had undefinable properties and even conflicting properties, so we don't know what it is or how to define it.

At some point in time a few scientists erroneously attempted to define the properties of the aether, and then went on to create a scientific test to measure those properties. To their surprise their erroneous definitions were wrong, and they couldn't measure the erroneous property they invented. Somehow this translated into meaning the aether doesn't exist. In reality, they set up their own straw-man experiment and disproved it, and then used that to prove the aether doesn't exist - intentionally or not is unknown. Of course, I am talking about the Michelson-Morley experiment.

The Michelson-Morley experiment was a travesty to science, and caused a split in man's understanding of the universe which set them back hundreds of years. Now two groups of people existed, people who know light is a wave in a medium, and those who think light can travel in a vacuum. For example - Tesla was the former, Einstein the latter. If only Michelson and Morley truely understood how light propagated through a medium like glass, and understood how light reflected off of a mirror, two main components of their experiment. Maybe then they would understand how the experiment was flawed. I digress.

Fast forward 100 years to today, and Quantum Field Theory (QFT) suggests light is just a vibration of the electromagnetic field. They don't really tell you what the field is, they don't really know, but "something" is vibrating. Somehow they have come full circle, and instead of calling it an aether they call it a field. They think there are many different fields, instead of combining them together into an aether. Why doesn't the Michelson-Morley disprove QFT? Try to figure that out.

Now, let me tell you about light...

Light is the vibration of "something". It can vibrate at different frequencies. For some reason we split these frequencies into ranges to categorize them. We then named those ranges radiowaves, microwaves, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays. - We did the same for sound...

Sound is also the vibration of "something". It can vibrate at different frequencies. For some reason we split these frequencies into ranges to categorize them. We then named them notes such as A, B, C, D, E, F, G. - Both light and sound can be categorized by octaves.

Both light and sound also undergo constructive and destructive interference (basic wave phenomena). For example, you can cancel out (destroy) sound waves by playing the same exact sound waves 180 degrees out of phase. You can also amplify sounds by playing the same exact sounds in phase so they add together (construct). You can do the same with light. You can amplify light by adding more light of similar frequency. You can also cancel out light. The best example is radiowave (light) interference. Playing the same radio signal out of two antenna at the same frequency but 180 degrees out of phase will cancel out the radio signal where they overlap and you will not detect the signal.

So how do we create light? I sometimes like to think of light as "the sound of the medium" and or the "sound from electrons". According to science, every time an electron moves it emits a photon of light. So if you quicky vibrate an electron back and fourth, it will emit a lot of photons. But where do those photons come from? There are many theories where those photons come from, however, they are all silly. Saying an electron emits photons is like saying a loud speaker emits sound particles. It's easier to say an electron creates light waves in a medium when it moves, like a swimmer creates waves in the water when they swim. Since all matter is made of electrons, when any matter moves it will create light, even when you wave your hand.
edit on 18-7-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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Moving electrons can create light waves, but also, light waves can move electrons. When light hits an electron it vibrates it. Similarly, when a water wave reaches a swimmer, it moves the swimmer. This gives rise to another phenomena - resonance! If a swimmer of the same shape, size, weight moves and makes waves in the water at a certain frequency, a nearby person of the same shape, size, and weight will be moved at the same frequency by said waves. Similarly, two tuning forks of the same frequency in the same medium will resonate together if you strike only one of them to make sound waves. Google "tuning fork resonance" to see a video.

That is how radio communication works. Its just resonant sound of the electrons! The most simple radio communication is done by using two antenna of the same exact size, like two similar tuning forks. Then you vibrate the electrons in one antenna, those electrons will make waves in the medium (radiowave light), and those waves will vibrate the electrons of the other antenna of similar resonance, which can be converted back to the original signal. It works exactly like tuning fork resonance, but instead of entire atoms moving air in waves, it is electrons moving the medium in waves. When you tune an old radio you are basically changing the size of the antenna which changes the resonant frequency of the eletrons in the antenna. This is how Telsa invented radio, he knew the similarities between light and sound. Radio antenna are just big tuning forks. They are also lightbulbs!

Tesla imagined radar with this knowledge... It's quite simple. Sound echos. Light echos too. Radar is just like sonar. You send a sound out and measure how long the echo took. Same with light, you flash a light and measure how long it took to reflect / echo. When you think of light as just sound of the medium you can invent many wonderful things.

But why does light reflect? What is it doing to the atoms it hits? Well, put simply, the light is vibrating the atoms, and the atoms are vibrating the medium (creating light) in return. Different atoms vibrate at different frequencies, so they reflect different colors of light. It is said that light travels through glass the same way. Light hits the first atom, vibrates it, that atom then creates new waves (emits light) which then hits the next atom, then rinse and repeat as it goes through the object. Some of the light is canceled out by surrounding atoms, and some light is at such a wavelength it doesn't vibrate the atoms much at all, but the majority of the vibrations pass through in some form. There are other theories too, and some think this one doesn't explain everything, but it does. Even refraction.

So then what is electricity? Many think its the movement of electrons through a wire. However electrons move way too slow for that to be the case, we can measure it. For example we have measured it moving about a quarter of a milimeter per second through a wire at 10 amps. That is slow. However, lights turn on instantly when you flip a switch. So what propegates through the wire at what seems to be light speed if its not the electrons? Vibration of electrons, the sound of electrons, light. When electrons move that is called "electric current", but that is not what creates force, it is "electric charge" that does the work. Electricity is just a wave of vibration traveling through the electrons of a wire like it is a waveguide. This vibration results in some very slow movement of electrons too, but all of the work is from the wave that passes through. Much like sound can travel from one plastic cup to another through a tight string as a kid, or if you hit one end of a long stick a sound wave travels to the other end of the stick at the speed of sound. Electricity is a similar wave, but only with the electrons of the atom, not the entire atom like normal sound waves. Non-conductive matter just has issues propagating the wave, mostly destructive interference with itself, or electrons that can't vibrate much. Conductive matter has issues, we call it resistence, but mostly still passes through with little destructive interference. Superconductivity means the wave passes through without any resitance, there is no destructive interference.

For those chasing superconductivity, think of how each and every atom of the crystaline structure vibrates, and how those vibrations propegate through the rest of the structure, and interact with other atoms constructively or destructively. Aim for a lack of destruction, or even support construction. Frequency matters too. You will see how the structure is very important, but also the resonant frequency of the atoms are important too. You will also understand why cold temperatures support superconductivity. Cold increases the strength of the bonds between atoms, the rigidity between atoms, which transfers vibrations easier. Hot decreases rigidity between atoms. It is the difference between a slack string and a tight string when using cup phones as a kid.

When thinking of electricity in this light, many wonderful and crazy things can be invented. The best part is you don't have to completely rewrite all of history and science to do it. The existing equations and knowledge we have plug in nicely. The explaination is the only thing that changes. All of the photon->matter interactions remain the same as well, but the explaination is simplified. For example, the photoelectric effect, compton scattering, coherent scattering, pair production, photodisintegration, all of these can be explained quite simply with vibration of the medium as if it were sound. It can be explained with wave physics. Even matter and anti-matter has a simple explaination of just being 180 degrees out of phase vibration, which can cancel eachother out. String Theory itself is based on this sound foundation, however, they have been lead astray by the something from nothing paradox.

I can explain any physical phenomena with this line of thought. Even gravity. I hardly scratched the surface here. However, the interconnectvity of all things is difficult to discuss without jumping from one point to another which ultimately comes out as incoherent to some. To further the trouble of discussing this topic, some feel certain experiments disprove this line of thought and will shut discussion down. In reality they must have overlooked certain variables of said experiments and they should revisit the entire experiment with this line of thought to explain it. It also doesn't help when controvertial characters support said theories too, specifically Nikola Tesla. If someone is wrong about one thing, it doesn't mean they are wrong about everything. It means they should probably revisit their thoughts. It seems emotions, dogma, and appealing to authority has a tight grip on science. Since science is based on observation, there are some truths that science will never obtain due to limitations of observation. The blanks must be filled with philosphy, logic and reason. Mathematics can fill the blanks too, but unfortunately mathematics is like water and can change shape to fit into any place. Mathematics shouldn't be used to build a structure, it should be used only to define a structure. It is the structure you need to discover first, then math just becomes the detail.
edit on 18-7-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-7-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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Now you know Tesla's secret. Light is sound.

I call it luxsonous.

-Nikola Tesla

I am part of a light, and it is the music. The Light fills my six senses: I see it, hear, feel, smell, touch and think. Thinking of it means my sixth sense. Particles of Light are written note. A bolt of lightning can be an entire sonata. A thousand balls of lightening is a concert. For this concert I have created a Ball Lightning, which can be heard on the icy peaks of the Himalayas.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: AntonGonist

So what was it you were trying to achieve with this thread again, angry little boy?

Angry little boy.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

My friend,
If it wasn't already obvious, AntonGonist was highlighting a contradiction in current science. It is also an unknown, highly controversial, intensely studied and debated topic of science. Mainstream science doesn't know what light is. Neither do you.

They only know light is a wave, and sometimes that wave has particle like interactions. Waves, by definition, are a property of a medium. Science says light is a wave in a field. So the question becomes, what is the medium of light? What is this field?

If a perfect vacuum is the absence of all matter and energy, and light can propagate through a vacuum according to science, then what does that say of light? What does that say of a vacuum? Light must be a wave of a medium that still exists even in a vacuum. Otherwise, how does the light even exist? What is propagating? What is the wave of light? A small bit of "something" in "nothing"?


edit on 18-7-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

This sounds interesting to say the least!

Fits very well into how i see this field! Would you mind elaborating a bit on refraction?

Honestly No Clue



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: AntonGonist

You have no understanding of what a field is because you have no clue what tensor values are and why they are used.

Fields are a mathematical way to show movement of energy from one point to another.

For example you keep asking about the magnetic field. The magnetic field is made of photons and as these photons propagate we show their movement in a field. The more tensors the more variables we are adding to the field. For example I could start with 1 tensor say movement of water. Add a second to the field say temperature of the atoms. I could add a third to our field by totalling the amount of sun light a particular point gets.

Fields are mathematical representations of energy transfers there is no aether propagating anything.



posted on Jul, 18 2019 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The fields you mention all need mass to be measured.
Do they exist without mass?

Maybe they exist 1 light second in the future or the past depending what you put first?

Clueless guess at best




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