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Goodbye Los Angeles - Welcome Los Ratas

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posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, the rat problem is recent, but that was just part of the theme of the thread, correct? The theme of the thread is how the overpopulation of homeless and the problems they present to major cities has come about. That is if I read the OP correctly.

An angle you presented is certainly one aspect of how this situation has come about, of that there is little denying and of which you will get none from me. In my addition to the thread I made no attempt to deny the validity of the already expressed, several times expressed, causes to the immediate problem of rats.

As I see it the rats are a symptom to which you and others offered a cause and that is fine. But symptoms are often not so easily diagnosed when making attempts to understand what brought them about. Sometimes the problems are more complicated then just '' take this pill and call me next week''. Sometimes we need to explore more deeply into the web of possible maladies that have made us sick.

That is what I offered to help with in that post, offer a little deeper understanding of the reality of homelessness instead of just accepting the ''them guys done it'' because it was not just ''them guys'' but rather the compounding of larger trends and their root causes that so often go un discussed because in doing so we might have to come to grips with just how deep in the rat turds we really are.




posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I gave two reasons... well, technically the publishers of the report gave two reasons...

The homelessness problem has only recently begun to spiral out of control, and that is primarily due to two things: the extreme cost of living, and the apathy toward drug use. Both of those are recent shifts in position.

The other reason cited is the ban on effective rodent control, put in place because of fears it might "harm the ecology." That is also a recent development.

Both of these things are the result of the Progressive agenda: more taxes driving up costs, less law enforcement, and literally hysterical actions toward ecological issues without any real thought behind their consequences to said ecology.

Yes, cities have been cesspools of humanity since their inception, and that is an ongoing side effect of capitalism. But it also has a social aspect; people are social critters and inherently lazy (which is why they are so inherently filthy). That is not the real issue here, though, although it may be seen as a contributing factor. The real issue is the lack of the Progressive agenda to control these natural impulses from humans in the cities and the results, in this case potentially deadly or even genocidal results, of their inability to think ahead and accept reality.

One either accepts reality, or reality claims them.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


The homelessness problem has only recently begun to spiral out of control,


Yes, though it's roots were already a problem decades ago, but let's go on.




and that is primarily due to two things: the extreme cost of living, and the apathy toward drug use. Both of those are recent shifts in position.


These two points are true as well. Drug programs do not meet the rising needs of the problem and I would guess that many people are just willing to look the other way as that point suggests. If as you observe humans are inherently lazy then this can explain away the drug problem because people being lazy means they would rather just hang around in euphoric stupors then to find the energy within themselves to either kick the habit or steer clear of it in the first place.

The social remedies that liberalism has called for are not working and that is clear. However what is the alternative. The old alternative is the more conservative choice which is to lock them up and either force breaking the habit or just keeping them incarcerated on the tax payers dime. Not being an expert in the drug problem I have no remedies other than to listen to the experts but thus far any programs or policies all seem to sway to either of those two sides above.

As to the soaring cost of living, well that reverts back to capitalism and the issue I raised in my first reply doesn't it?
Jobs. This is why the cost of living is so high in those areas, it is where the hubs of certain economic trends are located. They locate there because they want to draw people to them, people who want the convieniences of locale that they can get in those hubs. High wages and all it provides.

To house these throngs of high paid workers the real estate class and the landlord class have stepped in to either help with the needs or depending on how we wish to view it, take advantage of the situation. Landlords who are rich enough to put of collateral to the banks take out loans to buy more property to rent or lease to these workers and then in response to the needs to make their profit as well as paying back the loans they need to secure high rents . This is basically true for home ownership as well. Take out the loan to build the houses to sell the houses to pay back the banks and make their own profit at the same time.

But you know all of this and as you say it goes back into antiquity. These circle jerks of history.I don't have the solutions to these problems other than to recognize that putting all the blame on the shoulders of only one segment of our social structure is not the solution at all.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

The cost of living is high in those areas primarily because of NIMBYs, restrictions on buildings, environmental regulations/costs, rent control and affordable housing schemes, etc.

The reason you only see luxury buildings built nowadays is that it cost so much just to even break ground, that there is no way to even build affordable housing.

One of the issues with progressive thinking is that the left often creates problems with over regulation, etc and then attempts to solve the very problem their initial policies created with more of the same. They never connect the dots.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I can't believe the hatred in this OP.

According to my sources at IMadeThisUP.com

Alexandria Occasio Cortez said this. . .


In a speech to the Screeching Lesbians of Urban Toronto (SLUT) AOC stated that, "The evil Hitler Donald Trump is now trying to POISON undocumented rodent-Americans who only want an opportunity to seek asylum from racial hatred".

When asked to clarify, AOC screamed more about how much her shoes cost and demanded a raise.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:24 PM
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Once something like this actually runs out of control in an urban environment, what can be done?

I think there are issues that would make the urban environments better for humans, but once an animal like a rat has the resources to go bonkers.. Its a real serious problem. They are incredibly adaptive and even if the resources that enabled their population boom is taken away, there are plenty of other options for them that are natural byproducts of even 'clean' human civilization.

I honestly dont know, Ive never lived in a place where this was an issue. Even in a less dense suburban environment, cats can do an extraordinary job of keeping things in check (sometimes too good).



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:34 PM
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I had no idea the magnitude of this problem!

Just watched a few videos from a local news
station in L.A. that is trying to get the mayor
to pick up the enormous piles of trash that
accumulate for weeks and months.

I saw rats scurrying about, it was just sickening!

And people wonder why there is a Typhus outbreak?

What is wrong with the mayor of LA? Is he trying
to intentionally kill off the homeless population?



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

You know, I don't dissagree with any of that you point out, when added to my observation of profit driven enterprise.

You rightly suggest that


One of the issues with progressive thinking is that the left often creates problems with over regulation, etc and then attempts to solve the very problem their initial policies created with more of the same. They never connect the dots.


I see this as being the fragmented aspect of progressiveness rather than the centralized notion of progressiveness. One group focuses on one specific problem without recognizing the full outcomes of their actions. The next group down the line sees the problems, but only because they ARE problems and seeks a remedy only to not be cognizant of the full ramifications of their own actions. I see this as being part and parcel of my original post in this thread, the compounding of problems that I sought to add to this discussion.

Progressive ideas need to be defended and supported against the tide of past policies and structures. In doing so they themselves then become the conservative structure that the next progressive ideas come along with and on down the line.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire



One group focuses on one specific problem without recognizing the full outcomes of their actions. The next group down the line sees the problems, but only because they ARE problems and seeks a remedy only to not be cognizant of the full ramifications of their own actions.


This is exactly what I mean when I said progressives don't connect dots... and why their social policy prescriptions usually fail. They are unable to see beyond their good intentions or assess a root cause.

In fairness, the right can do the same thing, but I find it more prevalent on the left.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Thomas Sowell describes it as two dimensional thinking (I think) when you can only think direct cause/effect. When you only think A -> B, you then miss out on the idea of connecting B to C and to D and so on and so forth, all of them rippling out from A.

Progressives are very good at A to B, but they don't consider that nothing else is a static vacuum that will not change in response to the changes of A to B. Well, either they don't or they refuse to care because then they package the new "problem" A to B created as a new crisis they must solve, and they rely on most other people not to think beyond A to B.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I think we agree here Ed. From my perspective the right can be mired all to deeply in the fantasy of the past to even recognize the problems that are seen by the left, it's just that the left fails to offer solutions that can help much.

I have come to think that things are changing so fast on all fronts of our exploding civilization that no one can keep up with it all without making things worse.

I kind of base some of my thinking on one experience I had as a teenager. A few of us were racing up a hill. As we crested the hill the race continued. Where, from the crest????? Back down the other side. As we descended our pace picked up as we were now not fighting gravity but were indeed aided by it. Faster and faster until we, I at least, recognized that I could not keep going faster and faster because that would end me up in a pile of broken bones further down the hillside. I also realized that by that point my leg muscles were so tired that any attempt to break the rhythm would be met with such faltering steps that my legs would give out beneath me and I would end up in a pile as well. So I just took a second and decided that my only hope of avoiding dramatic injury was to take a conscious spill of my own accord so I took a small leap that my legs could handle and rolled into a ball that limited my injury to bruises when I rolled to a halt.

I know that is kinda goofy but that is how I see our problems now. We have crested and from now on it is all down hill.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire


Drug programs do not meet the rising needs of the problem and I would guess that many people are just willing to look the other way as that point suggests. If as you observe humans are inherently lazy then this can explain away the drug problem because people being lazy means they would rather just hang around in euphoric stupors then to find the energy within themselves to either kick the habit or steer clear of it in the first place.

The goal of a solution would be to enable people to understand the self-destructive nature of dangerous drugs and allow them a chance to get clean as painlessly as possible. Some "locking up" (I would prefer a treatment program to a prison for this) might be necessary; one of the major problems is that the addiction is often too powerful for someone to handle on their own.


The social remedies that liberalism has called for are not working and that is clear. However what is the alternative. The old alternative is the more conservative choice which is to lock them up and either force breaking the habit or just keeping them incarcerated on the tax payers dime. Not being an expert in the drug problem I have no remedies other than to listen to the experts but thus far any programs or policies all seem to sway to either of those two sides above.

That's because it is not a binary issue. That gets back to the laziness principle; it is easier to simply pick a side and assume the other side is wrong because they fail, while ignoring your side's own failures.

What will work better than what we have now is to stop the drugs from coming in. At the present time, that is from the southern border. Here again, we have evidence of progressive values (open border) being at cause.

The best solution I can envision would be to
  • Differentiate between which drugs are at fault. Marijuana is not the same as opiates, which are not the same as meth. Solutions must be targeted toward specific situations, not broad brush, one-size-fits-all.
  • In the same vein, attention must be focused on the specific reason for the drug use. Is it a true addiction or just a way to ease social/financial pain? is the addiction due to a medical problem that causes physical pain? What will the user likely respond to? What does the user need to cut back the need for the drug?
  • I have already proposed a solution to those who are homeless due to financial distress.
  • In that same thread linked above, another poster had what I thought was a workable plan for those who are simply addicted but not ready to give it up.
  • Stop thinking inside the box! There are plenty of ideas, but the ones that have a chance of working will not neatly fit into a conservative or liberal classification.


As to the soaring cost of living, well that reverts back to capitalism and the issue I raised in my first reply doesn't it?

Actually, no, not to the extreme we see this happening. Capitalism promotes competition, which serves to lower prices. A huge part of the cost of living is taxation. Not the taxes you pay on the cost of a purchase or the ones you file every year... those are direct. The real high cost is due to the indirect taxes used by both sides of the issue to try ad control people's actions. Fuel tax, for instance is not ultimately paid by the transportation companies... it is initially, but the drivers then raise their prices to cover it. That increase is then added to everything that is shipped, either through higher prices or higher shipping costs. When a product gets to your local store, the price has been inflated several times this way, causing the cost of living to go up. The same thing happens with regulations. When you increase the cost of doing business, you increase the cost of whatever that business does or produces. When you artificially restrict resources, the resources that are left become more expensive.

It is using taxation as a method of societal control that has caused the problem of higher costs of living.


To house these throngs of high paid workers the real estate class and the landlord class have stepped in to either help with the needs or depending on how we wish to view it, take advantage of the situation. Landlords who are rich enough to put of collateral to the banks take out loans to buy more property to rent or lease to these workers and then in response to the needs to make their profit as well as paying back the loans they need to secure high rents . This is basically true for home ownership as well. Take out the loan to build the houses to sell the houses to pay back the banks and make their own profit at the same time.

While this is indeed one aspect of price increase, it has a limiting factor: if one, just one, of these landlord class folks realizes that they can make more money by dropping prices and renting more homes, they will do so and undercut the others in the area. That will force them to cut their prices as well. It's not a perfect solution from the standpoint of the tenant, but it is much better than taxation and restriction. Those have no limiting factors. The people who levy and collect the taxes have no reason to lower them to improve the bottom line, since their bottom line is typically more to force societal compliance with agendas than to actually raise money.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:00 PM
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I guessing that no serious attempt to address anything will be made until there is a serious epidemic of some sort directly traced to these problems that they cannot ignore or otherwise sweep under the rug.

And I would further guess that what attempt is made will be ineffective.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:08 PM
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And after it goes from Las Ratas to #hole...they will blame it all on Trump.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

We've got weasels...along with a couple three feral cats. A few owls about, too.

Haven't seen a rat. A few mice, but the cat keeps 'em out of the house. She's quite the little mouser.

None of that OP surprises me. I wish it did, but it doesn't.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


The goal of a solution would be to enable people to understand the self-destructive nature of dangerous drugs and allow them a chance to get clean as painlessly as possible. Some "locking up" (I would prefer a treatment program to a prison for this) might be necessary; one of the major problems is that the addiction is often too powerful for someone to handle on their own.


I agree with that entirely as I also think that most if not all liberals would and do as well.



That's because it is not a binary issue. That gets back to the laziness principle; it is easier to simply pick a side and assume the other side is wrong because they fail, while ignoring your side's own failures.


Entirely true.



What will work better than what we have now is to stop the drugs from coming in. At the present time, that is from the southern border. Here again, we have evidence of progressive values (open border) being at cause.


Yes, that southern border. And yes there is evidence of ''progressive values, open borders,'' being at cause. But is it really?
I think that this open borders issue is a boogyman and not nearly as dramatically an issue as portrayed by many on the right. As well, the meth that is being cooked up here in my northern state is being cooked by natural born citizens with ingredients produced and sold by companies here in the US.

As an aside, did you see the video of a drug inforcement guy riding on a submersible out in the ocean and banging on the hatch to get them to stop? What a scream. Caught a half billion in drugs before it could land.What a hoot. But that had nothing to do with ''open borders''



Actually, no, not to the extreme we see this happening. Capitalism promotes competition, which serves to lower prices.


Sure. It does. But it also has no mechanism within it's philosophy other than the ''hidden hand'' of competition to keep that aspect of competition active. Once it has been allowed to go beyond the competitive stage, to get so out of balance in favor of the big winners the competitiveness goes out the door. The bigger fish buys out the smaller fish and consumes it or just puts the innovative aspects of that competition on a shelf eliminating the competition.

I agree also on the limits that taxation place on smaller businesses and the hidden cost to consumers. As well, regulations need enforcement to insure compliance. But here, that laziness you refer to is also in play in that when the lazy do manage to get ahead, that laziness can and does continue in how they act. Without regulations those lazy business leaders would take everything they can for as little effort as possible and that includes poisoning the environment, selling product that makes consumers fat and backing an industry that actively provides cigarettes knowing full well that that product kills people and leaves others handicapped for life.



edit on 31America/ChicagoWed, 17 Jul 2019 15:20:54 -0500Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:20:54 -050019072019-07-17T15:20:54-05:00300000020 by TerryMcGuire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:24 PM
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The animal parts I've eaten at various mexican carnivals in texas were actually very delicious.

So hey, Rattaburger might be mucho delicioso



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Lysergic

They eat nutria, and it's supposed to be very tasty, and nutria isn't much other than a giant water rat.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes

i grew up in a town named the cats in california ,we had 6 growing up so we almost never had mice or rats . i wonder if LA rounded up all the stray cats or something



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Since I neither live in nor intend to ever visit California, let alone LA, and considering the pain and suffering displaced Californians have brought to surrounding state by carrying their political syphilis with them when emigrating, I can't say this story bothers me at all. In fact...







 
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