a reply to: carewemust
That's an interesting thought. Strange also that it seemingly occurs at random in nature too - not so much a choice' as a natural condition for which
there can be no penalty if hedonism & debauchery or perversion aren't present, just as with heterosexual people too?
I knew I'd be slammed by writing this post, and the only reason I haven't responded to most of the criticism is because it's all rote
colour-by-numbers theology. We've all heard it all before. Why is there no originality of thought to this greatest of conundrums? Why would God
punish men & women who through no fault of their own had emotional & sexual attraction towards other members of the same sex? If it occurs naturally
- which it does, without even a shade of a doubt - then why is it condemned? God is not a merciless tyrant (though there have been plenty of
accusations of that in this thread too).
God is compassionate, loving, infinitely tolerant & caring, and the only sin which He cannot tolerate is injustice & oppression, against the poor &
the needy, by the rich & powerful, . READ THE OLD TESTAMENT CAREFULLY. What you find, if you read between the lines & aggregate the messages which
percolate through the entire set of material, is that God is the friend of the poor, the needy, the weak, the destitute, the oppressed, the afflicted,
the tormented & the abused. All of these are called first into the Kingdom. The rich, powerful oppressors were also called, but they were not
willing to give up their wealth & power, or to repent of their evil deeds - and so they came under the wrath of God for their crimes, for their
insistence on doing wrong DESPITE KNOWING THEY WERE DOING WRONG, WILFULLY.
I used to find it very hard to deal with the Old Testament especially, as much of the language is centred around judgment of the enemies of God or of
the righteous who are the focus of the writings. I found that the harsh proclamations against the enemies of David in the Psalms, for example, were
disturbing & worrying. I found though that in reality, those proclamations were levied against the most abusive of the wicked souls of the Earth.
And there's a lot of wickedness in the world, It is not the case that God is unjust - His justice is perfect. But as an exampe - if I believe
myself to be righteous, according to God's standard (which is as a new creation in Christ, with His righteousness being my own by adoption - that
doesn't give me the right to make proclamations against humble, kinds & contributing members of society who happen to feel differently in their
emotional-sexual mindset, if that is a case of finding comfort in the arms of one person to whom they are ccommitted. What of those against whom you
are speaking? Did Christ not die for them, giving them right standing through faith which is a gift of grace, and not of themselves? If I, as a new
creation, continue to struggle with actual sin, I know that Christ is my righteousness, But if a monogamous relationship between two people who love
each other & love God is so downright sinful, what on Earth did Jesus die for? Surely He died so that what is broken on the Earth might be fixed?
And in His time, in His way, without interference or persecution by us. And the whole 'go & sin no more' was directed at a woman who sold her body
for money, instead of finding other work which was less wildly hedonistic & spiritually damaging.
One of the first converts to Christianity was the Eunuch from Ethiopia whom Phillip went to when the Holy Spirit led him there - the Eunuch was trying
to understand what was intended by certain passages from the revered word of God - he was seeking instruction for his own life! Is this not
another clue, that perhaps these people who were certainly effeminate - by nature due to the interference of man in this case - that they are welcome
in the assembly of the people of God? Wake up church!
It's like you're setting yourselves up!
Let the people be as they are, under the grace & mercy of God, with all reverence & holiness as much as they can muster, seeking individual leading &
guidance, just the same as the rest of us. Until we accept these people in large numbers into our congregations, we will never truly know the
full mission of God towards them, how they might fit ito His mighty plans, how their hearts are searched & measured by the Lord, and not based on
the exterior judgment of humans.
He speaks to all of us personally about our faults & our need of certain changes in our lives. But we wait for Him to speak into our hearts, and we
don't just repeat by rote the same teachings that have been passed down which are outmoded by current scientific understanding, by modern treatises on
ethics & sociology, or regarding biology, genetics, neuro-chemistry, psychiatry/psychology, and so on. We are judging the exterior, all of which will
be tossed aside when the new Heaven & new Earth are provisioned by God. All of that which went before will be gone, and we will be clothed in eternal
& gloriously pure & holy raimant, as beloved children & heirs of the promise.
The Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth. Truth is not provided all in one fell swoop
. The scripture provides the start point & the
basic ethical framework for our lives on Earth - but the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, and only when we have love for our fellow humans of all
sorts, assuming they hold to basic ethical & moral positions of conscience, only then can God show us the full truth of who we all are in relation to
each other, what is expected of us is most definitely more than the inane position that they are not welcome at the foot of the cross!!!
Because of some splinter which we can see in their eye, while the plank of hypocrisy is sticking out of our own eye?! Surely you get that, surely you
see? We are not to judge, we are to love & have fellowship with each other, in reverence & humility, in goodness & noble deed upon noble deed.
May God shine His light onto this situation so that we all know what His will is in this complex biological/genetic/psychological/sociological
quandry. First, love God with all your heart, and obey the commandments. Second, do no harm to anyone except in the line of duty in times of war,
for example. Third, pray for grace & mercy each day, for forgiveness of sin & the strength to walk in the ancient way. May we always remember that
all are welcome at the foot of the cross, and that our salvation is to be worked out in fear & trembling, not in bold proclamations against other
sinners, as though we had any rights whatsoever to boast in our righteousness except in the glorious work of redemption for all, when we glory in God,
and not in ourselves.
edit on JulySaturday1917CDT06America/Chicago-050046 by FlyInTheOintment because: spelling