To the people who kneel during the national anthem.....

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The idea that everyone will ever agree on any one country being the most free is just silly. It's like when a group of 10/10 bikini models come up and ask you to say who is the most beautiful. Because, you know, I get that daily.

True but thats why I provided several different sources, when you have lots of different independent sources all saying the same thing then it becomes essayer to say what the consensus is.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Bluntone22

Thank you for the reply.

True that the Witnesses do not for that reason. Because it's their right to not to.

However isn't it also a right to be able to protest?

Of course but what are they protesting?

They want gay rights as good as what country?
They want better opportunities then America , so what country is that?
What country pays athletes better?
Are there countries with better police brutality records to minnick?

Many are living in the country leading in those areas and they still complain?

Seems like they will always complain, always blame someone, hates American society

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If 3 sources use the same metric they will get the same result. Miss Universe has to win multiple competitions. Meaning she is the most beautiful to multiple sources. Most people in the world would probably have chosen someone else.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If 3 sources use the same metric they will get the same result. Miss Universe has to win multiple competitions. Meaning she is the most beautiful to multiple sources. Most people in the world would probably have chosen someone else.

Actually you can look at lots of metrics for this, economic freedom is the big one and America is 6th if memory serves. Then you can look at incarcerations per capita, you can look at journalistic freedoms and then look at more academic studies that combine various measurements to arrive at a conclusion.

The fact is when we look at the best objective measures of freedom America does not come out as number one. Now that’s not saying it’s not a free country just that there are states that are objectively more free.

If this is at odds with your personal opinion then that’s fine but it’s only your opinion and not an objective measurement of the freedom of a state.

a reply to: Bloodworth

They want gay rights as good as what country?

When it comes to actual LBGQT rights America isn't even top 10, Canada seems to top the list, when you look at attitudes towards. LBGQT then America is something like number 47 (pretty shocking really) so yeah quite a few.

They want better opportunities then America , so what country is that?

Again depends what metric you want to use to measure opportunities but if we look at education for example then again depending on what tool your looking at America is number 5. So in answer to your question if we take education then their are four other countries in the world that provide better opportunities.

What country pays athletes better?

In general European footballers make up the three best payed sportsmen, Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar make up the top three paid sportsmen of 2019 and you need to get to about number 6 to meet an American on that list. I think however this entire point is disingenuous its not the state that is paying these athletes but rather private corporations and sporting entities. They are kneeling in protest against the actions of the government, they are not paid by the government. This point is entirely mute, even if they were the top earning sportsmen.

Are there countries with better police brutality records to minnick?

Are their countries with better police brutality records....am I reading this right?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That's my point, there is no "objective measurement". It's based on an opinion on what should be measured. HK tops that list, yet it is full of people who live (their house) in a 60sqft apartment. That is an entire family in 60sqft. My idea of economic freedom and theirs are obviously not the same.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Europe has a few people at the top paid a lot. How many of the top 20 are American? Usually it's about 15 of the top 20. Until his retirement Mayweather was the top guy, and usually 2 of the top 3 were American.

I don't know why he brought that up though I don't see the relevance.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

These are the most objective measurements, they are not 100% objective but they are the best we have, therefore the fact (and yes it is a fact) is that when we look at the best measurements we have just now to measure the freedom of the citizens of a state there are a few countries that are ahead of America.

Thats all am saying.

a reply to: Bloodworth

Depends on the person.

Racism stands out as a good reason to protest.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bloodworth
Yes they are many different spectrums,, but those countries seem not to offer the riches and fame that say comes along with sports .

Having sports stars from your country is not indicative of the amount of freedom its citizens posses otherwise the Red Army teams would have made the Soviet Union one of the freest places on earth.

The u.s. sports players basketball, football have insane salaries.
The amenities and lifestyle they get to live is rare.

Only in America

And then they sit when it's time to say thankyou America.

originally posted by: Bloodworth
The u.s. sports players basketball, football have insane salaries.
The amenities and lifestyle they get to live is rare.

Only in America

Guess you haven't paid attention to what the top soccer players make around the world, the top three on the Forbes list all aren't Americans.

And then they sit when it's time to say thankyou America.

I personally don't care. We have freedoms in the United States and part of that is understanding that other people's opinions are not always going to align with your own.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bloodworth
The u.s. sports players basketball, football have insane salaries.
The amenities and lifestyle they get to live is rare.

Only in America

Guess you haven't paid attention to what the top soccer players make around the world, the top three on the Forbes list all aren't Americans.

And then they sit when it's time to say thankyou America.

I personally don't care. We have freedoms in the United States and part of that is understanding that other people's opinions are not always going to align with your own.

But arent the chances of being rich and famous from sports in other places less likely.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, tennis. are the big ones.
Even lower end lacrosse. soccer, sports bring in good money.

The opportunity seems much easier in the u.s.

This whole thread stemmed from a person from Chile I spoke with.
He said u.s. athletes get the best of the best , spoiled at times with riches. Fame and free college rides.
He said in his country the police will plant drugs on you, assault people.
He said gays are attacked at times.
He said many of the athletes from Chile have a hard time making ends meet.

And then when he sees spoiled, rich athletes sit during he anthem in a country as great and opportunistic as the u.s..
The athletes are disgusted by those u.s. who kneel.

Try growing up in Chile and see if you want to protest your country then.

Then he said even with how hard many of the people in Chile have it....not one athlete or citzen would protest their anthem.

Their is a fad to bash America now and the people jumping on board look retarded.

a reply to: Bloodworth


Your friends anecdotal story is anecdotal. The number 2 highest paid athlete is from South America. Sports star income is not a correlator of freedom.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Bloodworth


Your friends anecdotal story is anecdotal. The number 2 highest paid athlete is from South America. Sports star income is not a correlator of freedom.

But how many athletes are paid well when compared to the u.s.?
One guy from south America is the best paid. But thousands are paid well in the u.s.

Only the u.s. can offer that to so many different people with the most being black.

And their thanks for a country providing such an opportunity is. to kneel?

originally posted by: Bloodworth
But how many athletes are paid well when compared to the u.s.?
One guy from south America is the best paid. But thousands are paid well in the u.s.

Only the u.s. can offer that to so many different people with the most being black.

I'll wait for your statistics.

And their thanks for a country providing such an opportunity is. to kneel?

I frankly don't care what they do, it doesn't impact me.

a reply to: Bloodworth

If 'am undressing this correctly what your saying is that they shouldn't be kneeling because it is disrespectful to the nation in which they reside.

Now you are completely entitled to hold that opinion but you opinion does not make it a fact or something that should just be. It should not be the case that just because you happen to find that act disrespectful that they should be stopped from doing it.

You seem to have this almost paradoxical argument that because athletes are preforming in a "free" country that they should therefore no use those freedoms to express themselves. Seems weird to me that on one hand you talk about how Free America is yet on the other you want to take away their freedom to protest.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Bloodworth

If 'am undressing this correctly what your saying is that they shouldn't be kneeling because it is disrespectful to the nation in which they reside.

Now you are completely entitled to hold that opinion but you opinion does not make it a fact or something that should just be. It should not be the case that just because you happen to find that act disrespectful that they should be stopped from doing it.

You seem to have this almost paradoxical argument that because athletes are preforming in a "free" country that they should therefore no use those freedoms to express themselves. Seems weird to me that on one hand you talk about how Free America is yet on the other you want to take away their

It seems their reasons to protest is stretching at times.
The u.s. Is a leader in change in many of the protested subjects.
Just seems they are never satisfied.

Like i said this guy from Chile said maybe they should try living in other places before they.
disrespect their anthem.

Because they would find out that what they are complaining about is peanuts in the u.s. when compared to many other places.

I could see if the protesters said the u.s. is not as great as this country when it comes to, say gay rights.

It seems they are protesting in the wrong place

Or they just always want to complain and say do better

Yep America allowed them now they hate America and praise any # hole.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bloodworth
But how many athletes are paid well when compared to the u.s.?
One guy from south America is the best paid. But thousands are paid well in the u.s.

Only the u.s. can offer that to so many different people with the most being black.

I'll wait for your statistics.

And their thanks for a country providing such an opportunity is. to kneel?

I frankly don't care what they do, it doesn't impact me.

Wait for my statistics....what countries pay their athletes more in golf, tennis, football, baseball, basketball...

In the u.s. this year the basketball community spent over a billion in new contracts.
How many basket.ball players Make a easy three figures?
And the same goes for all those other sports.

So clearly the u.s. the highest population of well played athletes.

And i know you don't care and that it doesn't bother you.
And that's what the enemy wants, for you to never stick up for anything and to keep quiet.

Lead , follow, or get out of the way.

To just say I dont care it doesn't bother me makes you an empty suit.

Your view of not caring was very popular the last 10 years and is why the u.s looks the way it does today .

The enemy laugh at how naive and passive Americans have become .

a reply to: Bloodworth

Thats fine, you're totally entitled to disagree with whatever they're protesting about or how they're going about doing it but so long as the protest is peaceful then they're not actually, in fact, doing anything wrong thanks to the very freedoms they enjoy as part of living in such a free nation.

You have to recognise though that just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean they shouldn't be doing it only that it is your opinion that they shouldn't be doing it.

I would also add that just because the citizens of a state are seen as being comparatively free, that does not mean they do not have reasons to protest. Sure political situations might be way worse in other countries but just becuase some atrocity takes place in Chile or wherever else in the world, that doesn't mean that protests should stop regarding other issues both globally and domestically. I do agree that often some things that are protested might seem trivial to me when there are much more important things happening in the world but to those who feel a need to protest the issue is obviously important to them.

Take climate change for example, I have taken to the streets to march for the government to take more action on that, yet others might think that its more important to protest on health care, its actually quite personal at times.