To the people who kneel during the national anthem.....

A person choosing to kneel during the National Anthem as a form of peaceful protest to perceived inequities (or for any reason, I guess) has zero impact on my life. No more so than the spectator at said event who talks on his phone during the Anthem, or the one who doesn't remove his hat, or the one who remains seated, etc.

As one who frequents sporting events, I see the Anthem being disrespected all the time, by ordinary, every day spectators, who are just either disinterested, or unaware. And it ultimately impacts my life zero percent.

a reply to: Bloodworth

In America, we have freedom of speech. If anyone doesn't like it you're free to leave. There are plenty of fascist countries where you don't have to worry about your delicate feelings getting hurt by differing opinions.

I'm sure they'd be proud to have you.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Thank you for the reply.

True that the Witnesses do not for that reason. Because it's their right to not to.

However isn't it also a right to be able to protest?

a reply to: Bloodworth

Not everything is perfect , but why are these people disrespecting the anthem of the country that seems to lead in these rights and freedoms?

When asked didn't they say they respect their country and flag? So why do People choose to read into an action meant for one thing a whole nother?

They are the ones who know what they feel and believe, if they say it is not to dishonor anything why can't we believe that?

originally posted by: Bloodworth
Many groups are bowing out of the American national anthem for different reasons.

Gay rights
Gender equality
Police brutality

My question to these people....what country has better rights and freedoms then America?

During the word cup i saw women who come from countries with sub standard rights and they sung their anthems proudly.

Not everything is perfect , but why are these people disrespecting the anthem of the country that seems to lead in these rights and freedoms?

No one should have respect for that.....

I don't think America is particularly 'free'.

It does have some of its right's codified but its government does things contrary to those rights. For instance, it maintains surveillance of its entire population. It unequally jails its population, Americans of an African origin by far outnumber any other ethnic group in the prisons. It has unconstitutionally used the Intelligence Act to prevent free speech and free press.

The US authorities have also attacked some religious and political groups (remember the Branch Davidian's at Waco and all the anti-communist stuff in the '60's where people lost their jobs and reputations and were actually jailed for having Communist sympathies). Not to mention the illegal torture, detention and 'extraordinary rendition' to camps like Abu Gharib and Gitmo.

Then there is the actual incarceration rate. The US incarcerates a higher percentage and a greater number of its citizens than ANY country in the world. How is that 'freedom'?

The US also indoctrinates its citizens fairly heavily. Why should you care about a rectangle of colored cloth and have to do all sorts of bizarre and function-less actions like standing at attention or placing your hand over your heart when they produce the control signals? Are you one of Pavlov's dogs, trained to salivate at the sound of a bell?

Sure, it's harmless and a little bit of pageantry is fun, but the response to people who 'don't do it right' is over the top and not a sign of a balanced view. Not only that, but I also get that there is an undercurrent of fear mongering that goes on and that everyone has to toe the line or incur the wrath of the officious and inflexible and that non-conformists will be shunned at the very least.

The fact that you feel outrage that people don't stand right when everyone is expected to sing your country song, might inform you of how mind controlled you are.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Bloodworth

A man who does not stand for something will kneel for everything.
-Some famous guy

I like my freedom to drink a beer in public.

The great thing about America is that you can kneel during a national anthem without fear of terrible repercussions. I would bet that many of the kneeling people out there would say they love America, they just want it to be better.

I think that while everyone is free to respect or not the flag of their country, the problem with high level athletes is that they are representing their country in front of the world, and by extension, their flag.

While you can protest all you want at a protest, or at a rally or at a political meeting, when you compete against other countries you are not just Joe Shmuck competing against another Joe Shmuck, you represent your whole country. Disrespecting the flag in that situation is a kind of a slap in the face of your countrymen who are proud of you and trusted you to represent them. Or a bit like a soldier sent to fight for his country but on the battlefield he is not sure anymore on which side to fight.

The flag of a country is not a symbol of it's government but represents so much more than that, and should be the symbol who unites all people of that country regardless of their politics, religion, color and so on. It seems to me that people got so frenzied in their political partisanship that they are ready to destroy everything just to get their point across. Or to get some attention on social media, which I find despicable.
If you cannot respect your country then who are you and what you stand for?

a reply to: Bloodworth

I think kneeling on a world wide audience shows how much freedom the united states has. Would Russia allow their citizens to kneel during a national anthem without repercussions? I don't think so..

So that's a more positive angle to look at it from. We are saying.... "Hey every country has issues but we can kneel in protest of it because we have such freedom".

Then again, I see the negative side as people could see as a disrespect to America as a whole, which I don't think players intend.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Bloodworth
Many groups are bowing out of the American national anthem for different reasons.

Gay rights
Gender equality
Police brutality

My question to these people....what country has better rights and freedoms then America?

During the word cup i saw women who come from countries with sub standard rights and they sung their anthems proudly.

Not everything is perfect , but why are these people disrespecting the anthem of the country that seems to lead in these rights and freedoms?

No one should have respect for that.....

I don't think America is particularly 'free'.

It does have some of its right's codified but its government does things contrary to those rights. For instance, it maintains surveillance of its entire population. It unequally jails its population, Americans of an African origin by far outnumber any other ethnic group in the prisons. It has unconstitutionally used the Intelligence Act to prevent free speech and free press.

The US authorities have also attacked some religious and political groups (remember the Branch Davidian's at Waco and all the anti-communist stuff in the '60's where people lost their jobs and reputations and were actually jailed for having Communist sympathies). Not to mention the illegal torture, detention and 'extraordinary rendition' to camps like Abu Gharib and Gitmo.

Then there is the actual incarceration rate. The US incarcerates a higher percentage and a greater number of its citizens than ANY country in the world. How is that 'freedom'?




The US also indoctrinates its citizens fairly heavily. Why should you care about a rectangle of colored cloth and have to do all sorts of bizarre and function-less actions like standing at attention or placing your hand over your heart when they produce the control signals? Are you one of Pavlov's dogs, trained to salivate at the sound of a bell?



Sure, it's harmless and a little bit of pageantry is fun, but the response to people who 'don't do it right' is over the top and not a sign of a balanced view. Not only that, but I also get that there is an undercurrent of fear mongering that goes on and that everyone has to toe the line or incur the wrath of the officious and inflexible and that non-conformists will be shunned at the very least.

The fact that you feel outrage that people don't stand right when everyone is expected to sing your country song, might inform you of how mind controlled you are.

Maybe rights and freedoms were wrong words...
How about opportunities.
What other countries give such riches and fame through sports?

Many people not standing are disrespecting probably one of the only countries that would give them such opportunities?

I'm not outraged just shocked and people disrespecting a country known for the most improved rights and opportunities...

There is a small fad that's been trying to gain momentum and it's the notion that's its frowned upon to be patriotic and cool to question and bash many of America's policies.

Sorry, not from the US.

So that's why they're kneeling?

I thought they're just hyper-patriotic, and they're going to get knighted or something like that.

[To think I was still going to point out how sexist it is to only knight men, since I only see males kneeling when streaming US sports.]

When symbolic behavior in one country sends out the completely wrong message in another.

Eh, if we can walk on the flag (as decor on shoes) use it for food (paper plates) wipe with it (TP & napkins) stick it in the vicinity of the bunghole (undies/thongs) then it's already not meaning too much to people as it is, so I don't get the faux outrage.

You do you, and let others do them. It's a lot less faux outrage stress when you stop pretending to GAF (we know you really don't if all of the aforementioned keep being used)

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Depends on what "free" means to you. Many groups use a UN definition. Either way America is in the top echelon.

a reply to: Nyiah

I agree. Nike can go along with the US flag being a racist symbol of oppression. I can simply never buy Nike again. We all do "us".

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Depends on what "free" means to you. Many groups use a UN definition. Either way America is in the top echelon.

Yeah am not saying its not "free" that that there are several countries that are considered to be more free.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The idea that everyone will ever agree on any one country being the most free is just silly. It's like when a group of 10/10 bikini models come up and ask you to say who is the most beautiful. Because, you know, I get that daily.

originally posted by: blueman12
The great thing about America is that you can kneel during a national anthem without fear of terrible repercussions. I would bet that many of the kneeling people out there would say they love America, they just want it to be better.

Right and that's the problem... nothing is perfect, so they always complain and always seem unhappy.

The rights for many different groups has grown tremendously, but nope they still are unhappy?

I was watching a Olympics from the 50 or 60s and it was the same thing...first time a women ran with the torch to improve womens rights.

Black athletes raised the fist in solidarity with the black Panthers and to protest things.

The following is from the reference given earlier, in second post of this thread:

“Tied for first place as the freest countries in the world are the northern European countries of Norway, Sweden, and Finland. Common traits shared between the countries include a free and open media, protection of minority groups, the right to access government information, independent media sources, and the guarantee of religious freedom.”

Notice there is no freedom from illegal search and seizure, no right to due process, no right to keep and bear arms in self-defense, etc., and I suspect many other US freedoms are not present for citizens of these six countries. If I’m not mistaken, these are socialist or very socialist leaning governments. No thanks, I’ll take the freedoms guaranteed to me by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

a reply to: Lab4Us

Notice there is no freedom from illegal search and seizure, no right to due process, no right to keep and bear arms in self-defense

All of those rights exist in those countries, although some have stricter fire-arms laws than others.