open display of torture tools

a reply to: Bluntone22

That cleared things up. Thanks!

But why on Earth choose a torture tool?

I just can't wrap my head around it! You guys can bring up the fanciest storys why the cross but it's just gross!!!!

Moons and stars, ohms, or hexagrams there is so much to choose!

I mean even the Satanist have a less threatening symbol!

NC

a reply to: NoClue

The cross wasnt the torture tool.
They could have just as easily used a tree.
How about the side of a building..


The crown of thorns and spikes being driven through the body were the torture tools.

And I believe it was actually a post not a cross.
Not sure where the cross came from but I'm just an ignorant atheist...lol

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

If I told YOU different would You believe different? And what do you mean "Even after being told" Who "Told me"? Come on man what was that reply? I'll tell you what it was, it was weak and just thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

Come on man. I am still waiting on YOU to tell me who told me? Seeing how YOU was the only reply to my post, that's truly "The penultimate definition of ignorance".

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

If I told YOU different would You believe different? And what do you mean "Even after being told" Who "Told me"? Come on man what was that reply? I'll tell you what it was, it was weak and just thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.

I do not need to be "told" by someone that is not knowledgeable in the subject .
You have been told by people that do know what Communion represents.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

If I told YOU different would You believe different? And what do you mean "Even after being told" Who "Told me"? Come on man what was that reply? I'll tell you what it was, it was weak and just thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.

I do not need to be "told" by someone that is not knowledgeable in the subject .
You have been told by people that do know what Communion represents.

No I have not ever been "Told". I interpret what I have read, just like you you or anyone else. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and to say otherwise is the "penultimate definition of ignorance".

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

If I told YOU different would You believe different? And what do you mean "Even after being told" Who "Told me"? Come on man what was that reply? I'll tell you what it was, it was weak and just thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.

I do not need to be "told" by someone that is not knowledgeable in the subject .
You have been told by people that do know what Communion represents.

No I have not ever been "Told". I interpret what I have read, just like you you or anyone else. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and to say otherwise is the "penultimate definition of ignorance".

Ok , lets make this official

First , one has to know the definition of the word communion

1. the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.

Def by Google

Second , one has to know what the word "communion" means in the Church

make one's communion — receive bread and wine that has been consecrated at a Eucharist, as a sacramental, spiritual, or symbolic act of receiving the presence of Christ

See , nothing at all about "cannibalism"
And , this thread is full of explanation . Which , apparently , you have not read .

So , now this has ended.
Denying ignorance
Why ?
Sometimes it just HAS to be done.

a reply to: NoClue

The cross represents the ultimate sacrifice and the fact that we were nailed to the cross along with Christ. I don't personally have such symbols in my home/jewelery, but can understand why others may.

BUT, keep in mind that Jesus didn't stay dead. So for some, it's not really the object of death as it may have been otherwise.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Vicious1

It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

So , you believe what you want to believe even after you are told different ?
The penultimate definition of ignorance.

If I told YOU different would You believe different? And what do you mean "Even after being told" Who "Told me"? Come on man what was that reply? I'll tell you what it was, it was weak and just thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.

I do not need to be "told" by someone that is not knowledgeable in the subject .
You have been told by people that do know what Communion represents.

No I have not ever been "Told". I interpret what I have read, just like you you or anyone else. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and to say otherwise is the "penultimate definition of ignorance".

Ok , lets make this official

First , one has to know the definition of the word communion

1. the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.

Def by Google

Second , one has to know what the word "communion" means in the Church

make one's communion — receive bread and wine that has been consecrated at a Eucharist, as a sacramental, spiritual, or symbolic act of receiving the presence of Christ

See , nothing at all about "cannibalism"
And , this thread is full of explanation . Which , apparently , you have not read .

So , now this has ended.
Denying ignorance
Why ?
Sometimes it just HAS to be done.

it is and has been said "the body and blood of Christ. From Christ himself.

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. My flesh is REAL food and my blood is REAL drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.”

It's pretty clear here. From verse 53 to 56. GHASTLY indeed. Cannibalistic, yes; very much so. DENY IGNORANCE.

a reply to: Vicious1

You are not thinking of this as in the time it was demonstrated, although what Jesus advised and did is more than our own interpretation.

The Jewish people sacrificed animals in order to atone before God for their sins. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and for the same reason, except it was the last sacrifice anyone would ever have to make on behalf of humans. Before, the fat of the meat was for God during the altar sacrifice. The high priests would eat the meat.

Now, when Jesus sacrificed himself, he was open and available to anyone and everyone. No one had to intercede between himself and God any longer, ie: priests. All had the ability for a personal relationship. Everyone could partake of the "sacrifice", to eat and drink of his body. But if you read below there is more meaning to it than just that.

"The Lord's Supper is brilliant communication. We cannot see God (though in his ministry his followers did), but God has given us a multi-media sign, bringing home to us the reality and meaning of our Lord's death. The Lord's Supper is not magic, not a trick of converting bread and wine into something else; but it is a brilliantly acted parable that communicates the love of God demonstrated on the cross to us in a way that involves us and challenges us. It communicates to us that that costly act was for us; the death of Jesus is something he shares with us; the death of Jesus is something we are to take to ourselves, into our very being. Paul expresses this thought about the Lord's Supper when he says, 'The bread which we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?' (1 Cor. 10:16).[3] The cross is no abstract idea, but the source of our life, food for our spiritual life, as we take it to ourselves. The Lord's Supper is both a way that God communicates to us - communicates the death of Jesus - and also a way that we can take the bread and the wine to say that we accept into ourselves the death of the Lord.

There has been a lot of discussion as to whether John 6:53-54 is referring to the Lord's Supper. I take it that Jesus' words in 6:53, 'Truly, truly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you' are a vivid way of saying: 'Unless you have faith in the death of Jesus, you have no life in you'. They are not in the first instance referring to receiving the bread and the wine in the Lord's Supper. But the Lord's Supper is saying precisely the same thing in action: we take the bread and wine to say that we accept the death of Christ for ourselves. We express our faith in the death of Christ in this way." biblicalstudies.org.uk...

a reply to: hiddeninsite

Great ideas why not take wine as the symbol, or bread. To represent your religion!

If i would be forced to die on a cross i wouldn't want people to remember this moment but all the miraculous and joyful ones we had! When i die all that's left here are memories!

I always imagined jesus to be a lovely, joyful, and happy guy. That surely wanted to be remembered like that!
But you guys seem to know better!

NC

a reply to: hiddeninsite

Many , besides christ, died on crusifictions. It was a torture tool. Even if you're mercifully tied to a cross instead of nailed, you're left to thirst to death in unbearable sun or cold.

The only reason people have crosses is because of blindly following religion.

a reply to: Bluntone22

The act of sitting on a cross to suffer for hours or days is torture too. In which case the two posts (cross) is used.

It's torture midevil symbology.

More reasons to not trust religion.

Context is key, and this entire thread lacks it. It’s not your fault, you’ve just been fed misinformation in the western world for the past 1900 years and what you call “Christianity” today, of which there are more than 50,000 denominations(!!!!!!), has no resemblance at all to the teachings laid down in writing by the “apostles” of “Jesus.” These words are quoted because they are not direct transliterations of the original Hebrew, and are rendered meaningless as transliterated because of the way Hebrew words were created and the intrinsic meanings they carried due to the combinations of consonantal root, a system we still don’t understand fully and which has also been corrupted by 2500 years of “Judaism” which is an equally meaningless term. The “devil” is in the details and reading a translation of the Bible (let’s say the KJV as it’s popular) without the necessary CONTEXT of idiomatic expression, vast cultural knowledge of the second “temple” era Yahudim and what they actually believed and thought, you don’t have the necessary background to understand at all what you are reading. I might as well give my 6 month old twins a copy of the Iliad in Koine Greek because they’ll get the exact same level of understanding from the text as your typical Western person (Christian or not) gets from reading the Bible in a language translated from Hebrew to Greek (Koine Greek is epically clumsy when compared to the Hebrew and lacked many of the consonantal sounds so the sh# show starts here) to Latin to your language, sometimes with more steps in between if translating specific modern “versions” which are nothing more than Christian Middle Earth fairy tales. That is, CONTEXT = 0.

I don’t have time to respond to all the ridiculousness and misunderstandings of basic concepts because it takes 10 years of diligent study to even begin to comprehend the meaning of Bere#h bara Elohim ‘at hashamayim ua’at ha’aretz and those are only the first 8 words! (For the inevitable dur you’re religious and can’t count thus your argument is invalid crowd, ua’at looks like a compound word but the Aleph Tau has specific meaning in the text which necessitates separating it where it is found, even though the way it is written is confusing. But that is an entirely different and extremely long topic). I’ve lurked this board watching people berate others for not being “studied” in something they are discussing but I bet a grand total of 0 of the posters here have any clue about the 2nd “temple” Period, the 40 years of judgement before Herod’s “temple” was completely destroyed (the current “Temple Mount” is in the wrong location and is a scheme by the unlawful government of Israel to fleece billions out of gullible Christians and Jews to wail and cry next to an old Roman fortification that is mentioned in scripture but has no real value as if it were a surviving piece of an otherwise completely obliterated “temple”), the early Messianic period (the term “Christian” was an insult to the Israelites and converts who accepted Yahushua/Yeshua hamashiach as the Messiah and was always as has always been a sect of “Judaism” not separate in ANY way), how it was co-opted by the Empire and the predecessors of the Vatican and completely stripped of it’s Hebrew nature by design to create a slave religion.

The sect begun by the disciples was the true continuation of the Davidic Priesthood and as the scripture clearly states it would be co-opted and suppressed but never completely. Incidentally it’s why the point of “there are going to be very few that pass muster” is repeatedly stated because saying “I’m a Jew” or “I’m a Christian” with no idea what that actually means or how to LIVE it as meaningful as Rachel Dolezal claiming to be black. It’s an extreme form of LARPing and very few will actually dig in and find out what the Bible actually says or be willing to follow it’s guidelines so the organized religions have diluted the message to be palatable to the useless eaters and the perpetual skeptics alike. The easy tropes that are bandied about like a 6000 year history of earth, a global flood, the concept of Hell, haadam being the first man, aren’t even found in the Bible. So we have two sides arguing about things that don’t actually exist in the source texts based on centuries of misinterpretations and personal bias and literally 0 attempt to find out the truth because people don’t want to accept that YHWH Eloheinu is real and we are accountable for our actions here. They’d rather believe in no-God or the Liberal-God that pats you on the head no matter how horrible you are as long as you confess how horrible you are and believe in “Jesus.”

Look into the transliteration and translation issues, look into the depth of meaning of Biblical Hebrew, look at the confirmations in the Sumerian sources which became the framework for the written version of the Torah that we have today that was compiled from ancient records during the Babylonian captivity, and entertain the possibility that everything someone else told you was true about the Bible (meaning you had no need to investigate for yourself) is wrong and your entire life will change. YHWH is not hiding from us. Anyone who has diligently sought Him can attest to this, but let’s argue about all the weird rituals that the Catholics stole from the pagans and use that to discredit the Bible when it’s not even from the Bible.

a reply to: LordVasa

Well there you have it.

Thank you for the input!

There are many ways to find god, but as finding implies searching, the ones offering the way to god are to be mistrusted!

Like gothmog said earlier:

"Sometimes it just HAS to be done"

Respectfully No Clue

a reply to: NoClue

Well Jesus wasn't us was he? He was absolute perfection. He still has the holes in his hands and always will as a reminder of what he did for mankind. So, I don't think he really cares if Christians attribute the symbolism of the cross as long as people put him as the ultimate symbol.

a reply to: blueman12

Well, I don't follow religion. I follow my Lord and Savior. I do not have crosses in my home or to adorn my body. But, that's just me. And I won't condemn or judge others who choose to.

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: hiddeninsite

Great ideas why not take wine as the symbol, or bread. To represent your religion!

If i would be forced to die on a cross i wouldn't want people to remember this moment but all the miraculous and joyful ones we had! When i die all that's left here are memories!

I always imagined jesus to be a lovely, joyful, and happy guy. That surely wanted to be remembered like that!
But you guys seem to know better!

NC

Did you read my reply on page 2 of this thread? I explained it pretty succinctly.

You seem to just want to argue a point; you don't seem to really want the answer.

But I'll try again. The reason the cross is the symbol (and not the wine, or the bread, or a moon or any of the other symbols you keep banging on about) is because the cross is what he died on.

The fact that he died for humanity, and then was raised to life again, is the point of significance for Christians. Jesus willingly gave up his life for humanity, and so the way he died- the cross- is what represents his act of sacrifice. If you want to try to understand it, great. If you don't, fine, but it's silly for you to argue about it when you're clearly focusing on every reply that didn't give you a real answer. It just shows that rhe point of your thread isn't to actually understand.

a reply to: blueman12

Except it was man that crucified Jesus. Jesus knew what he was in for - that he would die.

I agree, one should not fully trust religion (a man made construct), but one can fully Jesus the Messiah and take what he said as the ultimate message.

originally posted by: Vicious1

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Christianity is pretty sketchy and morbid.
Not only the torture tools but also the cannibalism.

The worst thing about the cross for me though is it’s basically an idol, the commandments are pretty straight forward on idols

No the cross is not an idol it’s a symbol.
Idols are worshiped, crosses are just worn, I don’t know any christians who worship a cross, not saying some don’t, but

What cannibalise, seriously are you saying that bread becomes Jesus, that’s infantile

When Catholics take communion, the communion wafer and the wine represent the body and blood of Christ. It's still a ritual of cannibalism no matter what you say.

Becalm your frazzled nerves poor boy, you are not the victim of this horrific cannabalism, quick count your fingers
It remains bread and water, it doesn’t really change, nobody dies or really eats dead people

There there calm down

It is then, ok