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China to Sanction U.S. Companies for Arms Sales to Taiwan

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posted on Jul, 15 2019 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




When China can do it you better believe they will invade.


What good would that do for China...? This is REAL life. Not a movie.




The only saving grace for the world is that the US still holds the upper hand.


I wouldn't label it "saving grace for the world" considering the horrors America has inflicted globally since the end of WWII. However, I agree that America still has the upper hand.




China can't do much militarily


America and its allies are mighty, no doubt. However, China has allies too...

I give the edge to the west. However, if you think messing with China (or Iran for that matter) in such a way won't touch American soil; you need to read up on what American military contractors funded think tanks have to say about that. There is a reason why America won't REALLY F# with Iran or China after all these decades of rhetoric....




...or economically against the US because it will hurt them worse.


This is the only part I really disagree with. This reflects a poor understanding of global economics if you truly believe the U.S can hurt China more economically. Your government sold you out decades ago to China on behalf of its oligarchs. And this is what Trump (the people behind him actually) are trying to rectify.

On a side note: this ongoing trade war these past few months have been great for those who play the stock-market. I can't friggin' stand Trump, but at least he got one thing right.




All you need to do is look at all the broken promises made to HK.


???

Please elaborate.




posted on Jul, 15 2019 @ 04:40 AM
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originally posted by: GD
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

We "worse" Americans have liberated the following nations from tyrannical rule:
China
Kuril Islands
Taiwan
South Karafuto,
Kwantung Leased Territory
Korea
Manchuria, and parts of Russia
French Indochina
Hong Kong
Thailand
British New Guinea
Guam
Dutch East Indies
Portuguese Timor
Malaya
Andaman
Nicobar Islands
Singapore
Kingdom of Sarawak
Brunei
North Borneo
Nauru, Imphal
Wake Island
Gilbert and Ellice Islands
Christmas Island
Attu and Kiska Islands
Panama
Haiti
Grenada
Cuba from Spain
Philipines from Spain
Italy
France
Belgium
Luxembourg
Kuwait
Afghanistan
Iraq

You are welcome


Even though s lot on that list is questionable, for example Iraq ( did not exactly liberate Iraq, but made it worse) I have to ask, how did America liberate china?



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 02:56 PM
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This needs to be cleared up because the historical context of this situation is not accurately being represented after multiple pages.

After Mao Zedong's communist victory over the nationalist government the leaders fled to Taiwan and they have long claimed to be the legitimate representatives of China. In Taiwan you have the ROC(Republic of China) in China you have the PRC(People's Republic of China).

This is why China has always had it in for Taiwan. This is also why they have jumped at every opportunity to mess with Taiwan. Taiwan has sought US help to deal with China encroaching on their system for years, long before the issues with the South China Sea arose. They will without a doubt take back Taiwan the moment they have the chance and anyone who doubts this should dig a little deeper into what has gone down in Taiwan over the years.

The Threat of China to Taiwan and the Claims in the South China Sea have been a major concern of our Top Military Leaders for decades. This is the location where we would be forced to get involved, the territorial claims and the military islands are all China's attempts at preparing for this eventuality. It was cited as a possible cause of WW3 by dozens of military generals in the last 30 years.

You may continue the debate.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris
maybe hes referring to the 2nd Sino-Japanese War.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: kobalt7
a reply to: Jay-morris
maybe hes referring to the 2nd Sino-Japanese War.


If that's the case, then he does not know what he is talking about!



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

The losers of the civil war that fled to Taiwan were the Republic of China, who withdrew after communist backed rebels took over. The current political power in China is the result of foreign influence. We protected them because China was an allied nation so we held up our Treaty with ROC and continue to do so. The fact that Nixon recognized The PRC did not change the history.

America needs to keep to American problems and stay out of Asia is an ignorant comment by someone who has a limited concept of history, political science and economics.

China comes second in modern slavery charts at over 3 million, debt servitude seems light compared to actual slavery.

Comparing Tibet with Mexico fails with any level of scrutiny.

I always find it amusing to watch/listen to Americans talk about "insert issue here"

Usually something condescending follows but it always comes from a youth with years of armchair internet politics and propaganda lodged in his/her brain.

Its fine to be anti-american but in this instance your views seem less about the actual history involved and more about your personal albeit basic view of politics.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris
No unfortunately he does not.

But that's why we are here is it not? We are here to learn! As much about ourselves and the world around us as the history that lead us to this point.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: Involutionist

What good would that do for China...? This is REAL life. Not a movie.

Taking Taiwan will do no good for China? Did you actually just say that?



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Involutionist

What good would that do for China...? This is REAL life. Not a movie.

Taking Taiwan will do no good for China? Did you actually just say that?


No, China would have a lot to lose if they done something stupid like that. If sanctions don't cripple them, a war would. So why eould they do something stupid like that?



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris

I Agree but they are not above taking risks, building a island military base in the middle of disputed territory is just one of many things they have done that could have led to a serious confrontation but by no mean is it the only major thing they have tried, they are weighing their options and choosing methods of encroachment that will allow them to exert more control on the surrounding countries while avoiding all out confrontation.

Modern warfare is less about open maneuvers and more about espionage and economic warfare. Subverting the current democratic system to fit their agenda eventually installing a puppet regime, which they have tried multiple times in Taiwan, they could use light propaganda to create a divide and slowly acclimate the society to communist ideals . Targeting the youth would allow them to control the future of that nation, they could take Taiwan without firing a single shot in a generation.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: kobalt7
a reply to: Jay-morris

I Agree but they are not above taking risks, building a island military base in the middle of disputed territory is just one of many things they have done that could have led to a serious confrontation but by no mean is it the only major thing they have tried, they are weighing their options and choosing methods of encroachment that will allow them to exert more control on the surrounding countries while avoiding all out confrontation.

Modern warfare is less about open maneuvers and more about espionage and economic warfare. Subverting the current democratic system to fit their agenda eventually installing a puppet regime, which they have tried multiple times in Taiwan, they could use light propaganda to create a divide and slowly acclimate the society to communist ideals . Targeting the youth would allow them to control the future of that nation, they could take Taiwan without firing a single shot in a generation.


But you could argue that they are doing this because they have American bases pretty much surrounding them. When you look at a map, it's unbelievable the bases surrounding China.

China would be foolish to make stupid moves against an American allies. It's a war they cannot win. Why would they risk everything for that? It's not going to happen.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris
Absolutely but these actions actually been going on since the 40s, they slowed down drastically after Maos death. At that point the power vacuum created alot of infighting which is still a major issue in China's military. Nixon opened China to the world and things were actually moving towards a more progressive government in the early 80s but by the end of the decade it began its slide back into maoist policies. Despite this slide our relationship with China was good and we had a mutual economic relationship that helped both nations grow for 30 years but the plays on Taiwan have always been there. For them its straight up personal.

They have been getting bolder with the US, some of the # they have pulled just in the last 2 decades you might be shocked. But as you said they aren't stupid and the current political and economic climate it would be suicide to attempt anything outright, but make no mistake they are preparing for it and testing the waters more then any of us know.

As for the base situation, look at the base locations and you'll understand why the middle east was a thing in the first place.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Cool. It's about time someone tried flexing their economic muscle against the US. Maybe if someone actually gives us a quick punch to the nose we'll stop trying to stick it in every place it doesn't belong.


They'll break their hand and if they try it a second time, they'll pull back a bloody nub. In the past 8 years, the US has sold over $15 Billion in arms to Taiwan, and Beijing has bitched and whined about it each time, fretting, fuming, and threatening all ultimately blowing smoke up the US' ass and doing nothing of substance. Tigers don't change their stripes, China is a toothless paper tiger lacking the power and/or the balls to do anything in the face of an alert United States.

This is our world, China is allowed to play here until they bore us and we decide to rescind the invitation. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact and it is no closer to changing than it ever has been.



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

That's, erm, .. Bold



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: burdman30ott6

That's, erm, .. Bold


No, it's Burd



posted on Jul, 16 2019 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: kobalt7
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

The losers of the civil war that fled to Taiwan were the Republic of China, who withdrew after communist backed rebels took over. The current political power in China is the result of foreign influence. We protected them because China was an allied nation so we held up our Treaty with ROC and continue to do so. The fact that Nixon recognized The PRC did not change the history.

America needs to keep to American problems and stay out of Asia is an ignorant comment by someone who has a limited concept of history, political science and economics.

China comes second in modern slavery charts at over 3 million, debt servitude seems light compared to actual slavery.

Comparing Tibet with Mexico fails with any level of scrutiny.

I always find it amusing to watch/listen to Americans talk about "insert issue here"

Usually something condescending follows but it always comes from a youth with years of armchair internet politics and propaganda lodged in his/her brain.

Its fine to be anti-american but in this instance your views seem less about the actual history involved and more about your personal albeit basic view of politics.




I’m nearly 40, have traveled extensively and lived as an expat in Asia for 10+ years over the last 18, I’m no fan of China and with Trump I’m almost pro American.

So China’s 2nd in slavery charts, that’s pretty bad and would be valid except another US allied nation is first with 6 times the amount of slaves, why is the US still allied or even friendly with India if it gives 2 craps about slavery?

You can play semantics all you like but the similarities between Tibet and Mexico are many, the differences come down to whose propaganda you read.

When the US had its civil war would countries allied with England be right in not acknowledging your existence or legitimacy?

The truth is the US backed and apparently still backs the ROC because it suits their purpose and not out of any moral superiority.

It’s fine to be Anti China or a blindly patriotic American and in this instance your one eyed pro American stance has made you ignore recent or even ancient history, current politics and say a country that has at worst invaded 1 other sovereign nation in its entire history is somehow more of a threat to global peace than the warmongering USA.

I think the problem here is that most Americans think America is the world so when they say global peace and stability they actually mean American peace and stability. No nation has done more to upset balance and try to shape global politics to suit their own needs since the romans.

An intelligent and learned fellow like yourself, can you honestly say from a global perspective that China is more of a threat to stability than the USA?



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I absolutely can't argue with that I have huge issues with India's caste system and the underlying ideology that promotes the use of slavery among other abuses. We also had a friendly relationship with China even while they were actively suppressing Falun Gong. I have major issues with our relationships with many nations over the very issue of human rights. I could rip on India all day but we aren't discussing India are we?

Regarding Tibet and mexico, despite 19th century politics and 20th century politics are a little different but I don't see the annexed territories asking for independence. Please educate me in what propaganda I've read regarding this.

What recent or ancient history have I ignored please educate me, perhaps you might brings something new to the table. I genuinely hope you do.

Our civil war ended in a peace treaty rather then a separate identity, England's opinion on it wouldn't have mattered you must be confusing the revolutionary war with the civil war, in which we sought our Independence from a foreign influence.

I've long had issue with American war-mongering and corruption, I pay close attention to everything we do precisely because of the threat we pose to the world at large and I'm well aware of the failing of my own country more so then most people.

That being said, this is a conspiracy site you think they all aren't perfectly aware of the #ty things America does? Especially when everyone here discusses it all day. Supporting a nation like Taiwan who has been an ally and separate identity for the better part of a century but you refer to them as just losers who lost a civil war and not their own independent nation says alot. Should they just yield to China and not seek outside help to maintain their Independence.

Democracy has its issues like any government, but at least we are given the freedom to discuss its failures and hopefully learn from them.
You know who isn't here to openly discuss China and its policies?
The Chinese! because the PRC actively suppresses freedom of speech, religious, and information and the few who are allowed here are here to spread propaganda. And you think because of America's history Americans have no right to pass judgement on this especially when much of the technology being used was developed by US companies? At least the parts they didn't steal through state sponsored espionage but that's another debate.

Can I say China is a more a threat to global economic stability then the US. I cannot but that was never my argument.

Try set an example to these kids and educate them rather then talk down to them. At your age you wield the experience and knowledge of your travels, but stick to what you know and don't be arrogant or narrow minded because even at our ages, we can still learn something.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Cool. It's about time someone tried flexing their economic muscle against the US. Maybe if someone actually gives us a quick punch to the nose we'll stop trying to stick it in every place it doesn't belong.


They'll break their hand and if they try it a second time, they'll pull back a bloody nub. In the past 8 years, the US has sold over $15 Billion in arms to Taiwan, and Beijing has bitched and whined about it each time, fretting, fuming, and threatening all ultimately blowing smoke up the US' ass and doing nothing of substance. Tigers don't change their stripes, China is a toothless paper tiger lacking the power and/or the balls to do anything in the face of an alert United States.

This is our world, China is allowed to play here until they bore us and we decide to rescind the invitation. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact and it is no closer to changing than it ever has been.
HELL YEAH.

Damn I just chugged a beer to that, I need to buy you a beer.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: kobalt7




They have been getting bolder with the US, some of the # they have pulled just in the last 2 decades you might be shocked. 


I only learned about the Taiwan Straight crises a couple of years ago, China has been humiliated pretty much every time. Thankfully the last one didn't have any actual conflict.

People need to realise that Communist China is not the same as the historical China, they also need to remember that China and Taiwan are technically in a state of cease-fire, the civil war never really ended.

Imho if China ever tried again they'll be doing their damned best to not get egg on their face... They might do some underground nuclear tests proving their capabilities and advances in nuclear weaponry. They could have a nation like N Korea kick up a royal storm. A lot of nations are starting to rely on China for commerce and economic stability... China has many options.

I unfortunately agree with the opinions of most Americans in this thread, Taiwan needs good weapons, with offensive and defensive capabilities. Because China has been building up across the straight for some time and Taiwan's only hope is holding out long enough for US fleets to arrive in the area.

And these days that's a huge risk for the US in itself, nobody wants conflict with China but if a hypothetical invasion of Taiwan occurred and the US lost massive military assets due to China protecting it's interests? I hate to say it but nuclear exchanges would be a very strong possibility. The US nearly gave the ok in the first crisis.

I'm not even fear mongering, if there's another crisis mainland China would have to be hit at least strategically and that doesn't bode well for anybody in the region.



posted on Jul, 17 2019 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
there never has and never will be a massive Chinese army mobilisation.


An intelligent and learned cat like yourself, can you honestly say that China never massed a huge army or that they did not invade another country?

China invaded South Korea in 1951.

180,000 Chinese soldiers died in the Korean War. That’s just the dead ones.
You do not call that a massive invading army?




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