President Trump is Wrong on Bitcoin

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

Again i don't believe bitcoin will ever be used as a day to day currency. Instead it will be the "digital gold" which all other digital currencies are pegged to. I think the last 10 years have shown that demand is increasing exponentially.

I agree that crypto currencies have their uses but not as a day to day currency.

Not convinced Bitcoin will be the main , or even one of the main, crypto currencies long term.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

Again i don't believe bitcoin will ever be used as a day to day currency. Instead it will be the "digital gold" which all other digital currencies are pegged to. I think the last 10 years have shown that demand is increasing exponentially.

I agree that crypto currencies have their uses but not as a day to day currency.

Not convinced Bitcoin will be the main , or even one of the main, crypto currencies long term.

Bitcoin will never be day to day currency, that we can agree on.

Centralised crypto may very well become the most popular digital assets however their flaw lies in those who control their supply and this will be their downfall.

Personally i think the people should control the flow of trade, the value of commodity and service.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

I'm sure the people of Greece felt the same way right before their life savings went up in smoke.

What happens the next time big banks fail, will the government bail them out with your taxes again?

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: projectvxn

Hey...I have a new digital currency for ya...its worth...oh let's say 2000 dollars right now but I fully expect it to be worth well over 10 grand in the next couple months. A good special right now...send me 2 grand for every bit of air you want to own...and I will make you own 10 parts of air for every one you purchase...better hurry though....limited time offer till I need to pump it up again...send that fiat money today and you will have as much air as you pay for times 10...I really promise...I will keep you updated on it's worth daily if you like...even a colorful little chart online so you can think your making a fortune...wink...wink...our motto...on a wing and a prayer...lol

Ok, i'll swap it for some sheets of paper that continually devalue over time.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

You actually believe the banks have everyones money stored and ready to be redeemed?

Once hyper-inflation kicks in you will be scrambling for a few hundred satoshi.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

You actually believe the banks have everyones money stored and ready to be redeemed?

Once hyper-inflation kicks in you will be scrambling for a few hundred satoshi.

No, why would I believe that?

I do believe that banks are one of the safest ways to store money and are even more so post 2008.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

You actually believe the banks have everyones money stored and ready to be redeemed?

Once hyper-inflation kicks in you will be scrambling for a few hundred satoshi.

No, why would I believe that?

I do believe that banks are one of the safest ways to store money and are even more so post 2008.

I agree, they are the safest place to store money but they are also able to control and influence the buying power of that currency. If you think investment bankers or those in the higher echelons of power store their wealth in fiat currency then you really need to have a good think about your investment strategy and understanding of economics.

If a loaf of bread costs $1,000,000 dollars then whats the point in being a millionaire. You are trusting banks and governments, perennial corruption.

a reply to: Grenade

Ok, i'll swap it for some sheets of paper that continually devalue over time.

They seem to think that fiat is necessary for a cryptocurrency to be valuable. I'm currently being paid in crypto to do what I normally do on Minds.com. My content earns me money rather than it being used for free by the platform to earn them money.

I'm being paid to browse the internet with the Brave browser.

Many here do not understand why this is valuable and furthermore, they don't actually look into the many crypto projects and what they offer. They actually think the USD is real money rather than an instrument of inflation-tax to rob people of their wealth.

Then, when challenged, it devolves into childish chiding because all the arguments for their side are exhausted.

a reply to: Grenade

I will take them. I can PM you my address. Remember I will give you ten for one so be sure to send me a bunch of that green paper, the same you use to buy Bitcoin with. I don't care if it devalues it's still worth more than what you will receive. Don't worry though , I am certain it will be worth lots more than what you give me for it. You can cash it at the bank, maybe...if you can find one who will take your word you actually have something

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.

I prefer my money to be in regulated banks that are insured against failure.

Horses for courses and all that.

You actually believe the banks have everyones money stored and ready to be redeemed?

Once hyper-inflation kicks in you will be scrambling for a few hundred satoshi.

No, why would I believe that?

I do believe that banks are one of the safest ways to store money and are even more so post 2008.

I agree, they are the safest place to store money but they are also able to control and influence the buying power of that currency. If you think investment bankers or those in the higher echelons of power store their wealth in fiat currency then you really need to have a good think about your investment strategy and understanding of economics.

If a loaf of bread costs $1,000,000 dollars then whats the point in being a millionaire. You are trusting banks and governments, perennial corruption.

I have a degree in the subject and about 25 years professional experience. Tell me again about how I need to think about my understanding of economics?

There are a number of inherent problens with Bitcoin that restrict its viability as a currency. As payment method crypto itself has some uses but they are relatively niche. I remain doubtful that Bitcoin will the main crypto of choice in a few years but since neither of us has physics powers that's just an opinion.

As an investment Bitcoin is very high risk. Some people will make money out of it but I certainly wouldn't be using it as my main holding.

I believe bitcoin could go either way. I don't believe it's a pump and dump as many say. To the contrary, it's here to stay.

I wouldn't consider it an investment at this point. It could remain the niche it is now, and stabilize. As an investment, I'd compare it to a penny stock with a large cap with no real business backing.

I believe the whole idea that it's limited to be faux. Tons of electricity, and computing power wasted to mine something that's really unlimited. It's truly unlimited because these types of code can easily be recreated. We still don't know how to recreate gold.

These types of forums are useful for traders. I personally stay away from cryptocurrencies.

This is a good argument against cryptocurrencies starting at 1:04:45.

youtu.be...

originally posted by: Grenade
Exactly the same as bitcoin.

No, gold has intrinsic value that Bitcoin does not.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No, gold has intrinsic value that Bitcoin does not.

How is that value derived?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I remain doubtful that Bitcoin will the main crypto of choice in a few years but since neither of us has physics powers that's just an opinion.

The future is multi-ledger. That's why there's so many of them and the W3C has introduced the development of the interledger protocol.

originally posted by: projectvxn
How is that value derived?

By it's demand for non-currency uses.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How is the value of bitcoin derived?

originally posted by: projectvxn
How is the value of bitcoin derived?

I can tell you how it's not derived, by any intrinsic value which makes it fiat money.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
How is the value of bitcoin derived?

I can tell you how it's not derived, by any intrinsic value which makes it fiat money.

So you don't know, but you want to preach like you do.

This is pretty typical in this thread.

originally posted by: projectvxn
So you don't know, but you want to preach like you do.

Did you honestly need me to tell you its value is derived by supply and demand along with mutual consent between the trading partners as to its market value?? You're a smart guy, I just don't get your reason for not wanting to admit that anything other than commodity money is fiat money, it's the definition.

You seem to be taking this very personally as well which I also find odd.