President Trump is Wrong on Bitcoin

a reply to: dragonridr

Has nothing to do with thieves has everything to do with people buying crypto currency only to find out there is nothing to back up its value.

I can't speak for all crypto projects. I know some of them are scams. I loudly called out scams like BitConnect long before they imploded.

It's only worth what others are willing to spend real currency on.

Do you know what percentage of so-called "real currency" is electronic?

In what rational universe could someone simply issue electronic scrip — or just announce that they intend to — and create, out of the blue, billions of dollars of value?

You can't. That's why most of those ventures collapse. However, there are plenty of crypto projects delivering a real product or service. There is a risk in any market. But to call what we have going on not real ignores the very real demand for secure, decentralized assets, online ownership of identity, censorship resistance, and ensuring participation in the economy.

Then it's slow and inefective for purchasing. It takes about an hour for a bitcoin transaction to be confirmed, and the bitcoin system is limited to five transactions per second. MasterCard can process 38,000 per second with a transaction time of 3 to 5 sec. Imagine waiting an hour to make sure you paid for a cup of coffee and a donut. And if it failed waiting another hour to confirm again.

I've never had any such issues with bitcoin, or litecoin, or ethereum, or dash, or monero, or any other cryptocurrency.

My crypto transaction can't be stopped by anyone. Mastercard can stop you from using its network based on your politics. They've already tried this. Maybe you didn't bother to read the OP.

Crypto will never be practical for purchasing anything in a store.

It already is. But you wouldn't know that because you haven't bothered to look.

a reply to: projectvxn

Hey...I have a new digital currency for ya...its worth...oh let's say 2000 dollars right now but I fully expect it to be worth well over 10 grand in the next couple months. A good special right now...send me 2 grand for every bit of air you want to own...and I will make you own 10 parts of air for every one you purchase...better hurry though....limited time offer till I need to pump it up again...send that fiat money today and you will have as much air as you pay for times 10...I really promise...I will keep you updated on it's worth daily if you like...even a colorful little chart online so you can think your making a fortune...wink...wink...our motto...on a wing and a prayer...lol

a reply to: DJMSN

I'm done speaking with you on this subject.

You choose to remain ignorant and refuse to engage in a reasonable fashion.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Your definition does not jive with the definition of fiat nor does it jive with the purpose of a white paper.

If you use just the word 'fiat', yeah, but when you are referring to Bitcoin it is 'fiat money' which is money without any intrinsic value. Bitcoin is fiat.

Fiat money is a currency without intrinsic value that has been established as money, often by government regulation. Fiat money does not have use value, and has value only because a government maintains its value, or because parties engaging in exchange agree on its value.

originally posted by: gimcrackery
The internet can be shut down at any time by those who control it. Without it you have no bitcoin, Cloud online storage etc.

Not true, the bitcoin ledger would still be stored locally with anyone who was running a node or the full blockchain.

In the event of the internet "shutting down" more than just cryptocurrency to worry about.

Seems people prefer to allow the manipulation of their wealth to traditional banking systems which have failed time and time again.

Personally i think bitcoin is unstoppable.

a reply to: projectvxn

Because bitcoin is a speculative trading instrument, does this mean it is based on the currencies you buy it with when you trade it?

Like you buy 1 bitcoin for $10,000 because you imagine 1 bitcoin will be worth $100,000,000 in 2140...

a reply to: IrisMoonie

Because bitcoin is a speculative trading instrument, does this mean it is based on the currencies you buy it with when you trade it?

There's no peg to any currency.

Like you buy 1 bitcoin for $10,000 because you imagine 1 bitcoin will be worth $100,000,000 in 2140...

USD is used as a counter-value. There is no direct correlation between BTC and USD or any other currency.
You will see inverse price action when currencies devalue. Especially with regard to the Chinese Yuan.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Wells Fargo is one of the largest banking institutions in the United States. You can not use any monies in a Wells Fargo account to purchase Bitcoin or any other digital currency.

You cannot use a Wells Fargo debit card to make a digital currency purchase, cannot use a Wells Fargo credit card, nor transfer any funds in order to facilitate the purchase of digital currency.

Recently, Facebook in a partnership with Mastercard and Visa announced the creation of the Libra, a supposed digital currency. This partnership includes the point of sale networks controlled by Mastercard and Visa. This is the death nail for Bitcoin. They will eventually by contract be unable to be traded nor be able to be used at the point of sale for purchases.

J P Morgan Chase also recently announced the creation of a digital currency. Another major banking institute which has considerable control and clout over the monetary system's worldwide. Another death nail for the Bitcoin ponzi scheme.

The introduction of new digital currencies is just another Bitcoin...no they intend the currency to be backed by the US Treasury and the "basket of other currencies". As of the announcement, participation included over 27 major banking and retail participants.

The launch is expected to occur in early 2020 with a multitude of worldwide banking and retail partners not yet announced. The expectation of the participation of the Treasury and other world currencies will eliminate the extreme volatility found in other digital currencies and end the perpetual pump and dump fraud associated with Bitcoin and its relatives.

Those are facts...Bitcoin and its relatives will be frozen by their exclusion in the monetary point of sale system, frozen from participating market place merchants and the inability of their trade thru the world monetary systems they currently depend on.

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

a reply to: DJMSN

You misunderstand the facility of bitcoin. It was never intended to be used as currency in day to day transactions. It is more akin to gold in that its finite supply is what gives it intrinsic value.

Eventually i expect other digital assets to fill the void left once the fiat system crumbles however they will all be pegged to bitcoin in the same way our paper money used to be redeemable in gold.

It makes me laugh when people attack bitcoin and defend the dollar. Have a look at the national debt, rates of inflation and corruption within the current central banking system. Bitcoin is virtually immune to these factors.

Agreed it is a technology in it's infancy and due to a lack of understanding is being exploited however eventually i see the volatility settling down.

Libra is a centralised currency with no finite limit so is essentially like the paper in your pocket, it's value is controlled and open to all the flaws we currently encounter. Pointless comparing Libra to Bitcoin as they have no similarity in function or facility.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

originally posted by: IrisMoonie
a reply to: projectvxn

Because bitcoin is a speculative trading instrument, does this mean it is based on the currencies you buy it with when you trade it?

Like you buy 1 bitcoin for $10,000 because you imagine 1 bitcoin will be worth $100,000,000 in 2140...

The dollar will not exist as a trading instrument in 2140. Bitcoin will.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

Due to the nature of the bitcoin blockchain supply is constantly reduced. As the supply growth slows and the demand increases you have multiple scenarios in which the value of bitcoin increases.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

Due to the nature of the bitcoin blockchain supply is constantly reduced. As the supply growth slows and the demand increases you have multiple scenarios in which the value of bitcoin increases.

Assuming demand increases.

As per above a continually increasing value isn't a desirable trait for a real currency.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Again i don't believe bitcoin will ever be used as a day to day currency. Instead it will be the "digital gold" which all other digital currencies are pegged to. I think the last 10 years have shown that demand is increasing exponentially.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: projectvxn
That doesn't work here.

Otherwise, you can call gold a fiat.

Gold is a commodity currency when used as money since it has intrinsic value.

Value determined by its scarcity and cost to mine. Exactly the same as bitcoin.

Difference being bitcoin is more secure. With 12 words i can keep my entire life savings untouchable to theft and can have access to my funds anywhere in the world. Easier than carrying a chest full of gold around.

It's value is determined by supply and demand, the exact same as gold.

What happens if you forget those 12 words?

This supply however is finite and accountable. Same can't be said for fiat.

Obviously i have backup of these words written down with a cipher only me and a close trusted relative know.

Having the supply finite isn't necessarily a good thing. For something that wants to be a real currency it's serious disadvantage.

So having it written down and know by someone else is more secure? Can't say I am convinced.

At least i am in control of the security of my wealth. I trust myself more than a bank.