What builds the enlightened state?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Where is the past?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Leap year

a reply to: grey580

I feel I have a grasp on what enlightenment is and what it entails but the actual steps that go into attaining it is awhile other matter, the more important I'd posit, which such stories invariably neglect to mention.

a reply to: olaru12

Okay, what are "sacraments ritual and and spiritual adept" in this context, how does one use them, and how do they help?

a reply to: ClovenSky

The awareness and capacity for analysis of such things, yes. However, this definition of enlightenment is useless without adding the capacity to act on such things. Imagine knowing the desires of the soul but not being able to embody and enact them?

In the definition I gave, the ego is transformed into the tool of the higher self.

But- according to your understanding, how is such a state attained? There must be a process right?

a reply to: strongfp

Thesis and antithesis are both well and fine; it's the synthesis I'm wondering about here. How exactly are ideas combined? What sorts of factors go into a metaphysical reaction such as will result in the ideal mind state?

a reply to: Serdgiam

No, not an optimal state of being. Optimal conditions within consciousness which can be understood as awareness and attention, such that the will is not defined by base desires and functions, but is able to run the ideal program of the users choosing.

In this sense, which I explicitly laid out in my op, growth and movement are not in Any sense precluded; unless I am highly mistaken I have provided the exact scenario from which growth an progress, specifically forwards the values and ideal one holds, is ever to be attained.

a reply to: Nothin

A resounding, emphatic, and forceful YES, there would still be wishing. Wishing is the foundation of consciousness itself and is it's greatest ability against the forces of entropy.

a reply to: Hombre

"It" is "there" yes, however, *we* are not and therefore, bar some miraculous occurrence, we must undertake some process or journey to get there. Such is the way of life.

a reply to: FyreByrd

My definition of the will is the same as yours- however, the process I described transforms the will from being ego based to being spirit based- the self is used as a construct to enact the higher ideals and motives rather than the baseline programming of the lower brains instincts and the societal script.

a reply to: Hombre

Fighting for peace is like fighting for silence, huh? Both are absolutely necessary at times. Imagine being in a room full of people telling and shouting. The only way to get them to stop would be to tell louder ten them so their attention is now on you.

Besides, you contradict yourself. "Buddha did nothing" "Buddha meditated" well meditation is a thing so. Furthe you say meditation is a key to enlightenment, after insisting there is no process to it. Which is it? It was so called "keys" that I was asking about in my op. Just like the "keys" of making a house are brick and mortar

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
...
a reply to: Nothin

A resounding, emphatic, and forceful YES, there would still be wishing. Wishing is the foundation of consciousness itself and is it's greatest ability against the forces of entropy. ...

Hmmmm. That seems to be different from ancient wisdom on what enlightenment may, or may not be.

Where have you heard that ..."...Wishing is the foundation of consciousness itself..."... ?

From your OP:

I should hardly need to explain what I mean by enlightened but here goes anyway. I see enlightenment as the ideal state for any being with conscious awareness and attention; in that it consists of optimal conditions within said awareness and attention- such that the will is refined by wisdom and empathy, and is not faced with barriers such as reaction, impulse, desire, etc.

If enlightenment has wishing, but no desire: how does that work?

Seems like you did need to explain your concept of enlightenment in the OP, as we all seem to view it differently...
Like a bunch of simple peasants, imagining what it might be like to be king. (Me included, Heech-heech-heech)

Thanks for this thread.

a reply to: Nothin

You are of course, welcome.

I haven't heard it anywhere except the voices that I sometimes hear whispering on the wind, wistfully titled the muse. You see, I meant wishing as akin to dreaming; that is, the ability to rise out of the confines of circumstance, physical, environmental, mental, social etc... And see more, reach for more. Withput the ability to wish or to dream we would be nothing less than robots, soft fleshy robots defined by "sin" or entropy of the mind.

This is why I can never accept any doctrine or philosophy which States that the self must be eliminated or realized as illusion and given up. We are not here to become less... But to become more. Is it impossible that we can remain self and yet be free of sin? This, to me, is enlightenment, the ultimate paradox of freedom and confinement: the ability, you see, to achieve desire- but not being restricted by said desire. This is what I meant when I said there is no barrier of desire; further tempered by the refinement of the will such that, unless one wascontemplate, one would not ever contemplate base egoic patterns.

It relies on the assumption that people are basically good, and limited from expressing that goodness by societal archetypes and tre nds and the deterioration of the mind i into greed distraction crueltydestroyedThis view, then, enlightenment is a cleansing, perpetual and self sustained . of course, this means that if one IS evil, any remaining shreds of morality would be destroyed- providing an explanation for TPTB.

I found practicing periods of silence, can encourage a deeper awareness of one's influence in their environment. I naturally tend to be somewhat impulsive and often in times past, was more caught up in my own thoughts then what was going on around me. Practicing periods of silence allows one the opportunity to see the more subtle connections they have to the world around them.

Imo, one doesn't have to be isolated to benefit from this practice. The contrast from periods of limited interaction with others can offer a glimpse into one's mirror more obviously then a solo retreat. Imo, the sense of connection that can be realized, lies behind this tradition.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Who could give up the separate self if it is an illusion?

a reply to: LucidWarrior

This is freedom.

No one will achieve or have freedom.

Life is happening as it is...... this is freedom.

Just life...... Not life plus you......

Can anything be separate now?

The belief in time makes illusory space for separation.

All is appearing and disappearing simultaneously.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Have you actually located you yet?
Where and when are you?

Where are you seeing from and where is what is seen?

a reply to: LucidWarrior

What is a state of awareness?
Are you aware?

The problem is you don't recognise that That is what you are..... simply aware.

Ever present and aware of what is appearing and disappearing.

You have misidentified yourself as something within the image that is appearing.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior

a reply to: Hombre

Fighting for peace is like fighting for silence, huh? Both are absolutely necessary at times. Imagine being in a room full of people telling and shouting. The only way to get them to stop would be to tell louder ten them so their attention is now on you.

Yes, i started my talk in a setting, where peace is already present, and you started your story in a setting where there are many, who are making noises.
But the truth is that the silence or quietness is not touched at all, for if you place one deaf wo/man in your story, you will recognize that the silence was disrupted for everyone but not for the deaf one.
And if you examine it further, the noise which seems to disrupt the silence, is formed only in the ears and interpreted as such by the brain.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
Besides, you contradict yourself. "Buddha did nothing" "Buddha meditated" well meditation is a thing so. Furthe you say meditation is a key to enlightenment, after insisting there is no process to it. Which is it? It was so called "keys" that I was asking about in my op. Just like the "keys" of making a house are brick and mortar

First, i do not contradict myself. I am not my thoughts neither the words i have written. These are not "Myself" and i do not equate myself with them.
I know, it is the property of the english language for others to address my writings as "myself", while what you are actually saying, means: "what you wrote has a contradiction in itself"

And actually there is no contradiction, at least not here. The contradiction is in your mind, because you do not make the equations which i have done.

You see, i have worked, in the past, with many people. And i have picked up some of the ways, in which few of them were thinking. For them, who were workaholics, sitting around means doing nothing.
Sadly i do recognize this, because i'm able to use the same reasoning, and so, to think just like they did.
And so there is not really a contradiction at all, only a different assignment of meaning. The problem lies in the way of thinking.



I started talking about keys and ways, because if you do not know of the easy way, you are the one who see's only the choice to go the harder way.

See this parabel:

If you wanted to move your body, to 1m back from the position where you are, the easiest way is to make few steps back. But you can do it, as well, the hard way, and to make countless steps, all around the Globe, and to arive to the same desired destination.

I know, you mind to write about 1000 other ways on how to get where you wanted to be, and there are as many ways to enlightment as you wish to have. But when you reach the enlighment, you will recognize, if you look back, that you haven't had to do anything.

Furthe you say meditation is a key to enlightenment, after insisting there is no process to it. Which is it? It was so called "keys" that I was asking about in my op. Just like the "keys" of making a house are brick and mortar

It is not me who is making contradicting statements, but if you insists to know how to reach enlighment by placing brick by brick (even if i told you that there is an easy way), why should i talk you away from it ?

If you ask me of the hard way, here you have it. If you ask me of easy way, there it is. Does enlightment need to be done ? No, not really.

The problem is in the viewpoint, for in truth, it was you who lowered your light, and now it is you who is seeking it back.

(Sidenote: Well truth here is only temporal statement, for in Truth you can not really do it, because all you did is: you have fallen asleep (just like the bible says about adam) and are only dreaming of darkness in which you want to be "enlightened".)

The light of God is shining all around you, and that is why the call for "awakening" is heard by many people around the world.
And if you have followed what i said, you would assign awakening with enlightning now. (although the total awakening will have a different outcome)

To what are you awaking ? To the Truth. (p.s this is a cue)

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
...and is not faced with barriers such as reaction, impulse, desire, etc.
...
How, then, are we to reach out from where we are to where we wish to be?

Did you know the verb "desire" is a synonym for "wish"? So that last question can also read:

'...where we desire to be?'

Sort of like the desire to become enlightened and wise. Or the desire to figure out the answer to the question: "What builds the enlightened state?" Or the desire to make a thread about that subject and comment on it.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
a reply to: grey580

Besides, you contradict yourself.

Not to worry, it happens quite a lot. Especially with those that feel like they're already well on their way to achieving enlightenment or know the answers as to how to build the enlightened state and have the desire to share their opinions about it and/or the desire to get some responses about those (preferrably flattering ones, or from those who are inclined to agree with those opinions, desiring those type of comments more than the other type; to most people, it doesn't feel that great when someone disagrees with them or tries to remind them of something they do not want to be reminded).

Btw, the desire to find true enlightenment, knowledge and spiritual illumination, or true spirituality, can be quite beneficial to anyone, if the right approach is used:

Finding True Enlightenment
True Spirituality—How Can You Find It?
Learning from the Great Teacher

...
FINDING “THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND OF KNOWLEDGE”

...

Proverbs 3:13-15:

13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom

And the man who acquires discernment;

14 To gain it is better than gaining silver,

And having it as profit is better than having gold.

15 It is more precious than corals;* [In Bible times, red coral was highly prized.​]

Nothing you desire can compare to it.

Proverbs 4:5-7

5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding.

Do not forget, and do not turn aside from what I say.

6 Do not forsake it, and it will protect you.

Love it, and it will safeguard you.

7 Wisdom is the most important* thing, so acquire wisdom, [*: Or “the prime.”]

And with all you acquire, acquire understanding.

Wisdom is the ability to put knowledge to work, or to use it, the intelligent application of learning. A person might have considerable knowledge but not know how to use it because of lacking wisdom.

Proverbs 11:23:

The desire of the righteous leads to good,

But what the wicked hope for leads to fury.

Matthew 5:6 (from Jesus' sermon on the mount):

6 “Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled.* [Or “satisfied.”]

I wonder though what happens in terms of one's progress towards an enlightened state if one gets rid of their desire to reach an enlightened state (or their desire to figure out how that is done, for that matter; or sees any of those 2 desires as barriers to achieve an enlightened state, which implies one needs to get rid of those barriers to achieve progress on that front):

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Another practice to consider, is keeping a dream journal. Dreams can give deep insight and inspiration to one's spiritual development. Often times, they are quickly forgotten, so making an effort in this department can really pay dividends. I often think of it as attending night school, lol.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

How can you be sure that it's not the soft fleshy robots, whom are dreaming?

You see, I meant wishing as akin to dreaming; that is, the ability to rise out of the confines of circumstance, physical, environmental, mental, social etc... And see more, reach for more.

What do you figure an enlightened person sees as 'more' ?

We are not here to become less... But to become more

Where does that come from?

"People don't want to awaken from the dream: they want to dream, that they are awake". --Jed McKenna.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Breathing and pooping well, apparently. Want to make sure to get all those negative energies out by sheer force of determination.

Enlighten, what do you mean? To shine, to burn, or being on the same wave length?

Didn't you know what goes up must come down just so it can up again.

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: LucidWarrior

How can you be sure that it's not the soft fleshy robots, whom are dreaming?

All that appears is dream stuff.
The 'robots' don't dream... they are dreamt.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where is the past?

You tell me, you gave the directions.

Lol
you said

Go to the Quora website and search for: 'The dream of separation'........ it is pretty enlightening

To which I replied

Searching involves the "thinking brain" and dwells in the past, no?

Unless you now claim that you're not using your brain; we are talking about my post on the 18th July, 4 days ago in the .....past.

Usually when communicating we agree to use certain conventions. You make word salads with different dressings, but the taste is still bland.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If you were in prison you would have a specific definition of freedom and the passage of time. Without that hope you would sink to despair.

Do you prefer the "now" playing on ATS in the comfort of your home, or in a prison using a PC as a privilege?

Can you honestly say that both situations would be experienced with the same amount of pain, or same quality of pain.

Sure striving to diminish pain entails its own problems; but the alternative if you were incarcerated would perhaps lead to nihilism.

You cannot play word salads divorced from experience to pretend that "A does not equal A", or that "1 = 2"

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

What is occuring as life..... including these words that are happening.... is life.

Life is the freedom..... the one free to appear as it does.
No one can have freedom because the one that believes it has a life is imprisonment.

Understanding a love that surpasses knowledge?

Never happened, never will.