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on the question why does God allow suffering

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posted on Jul, 13 2019 @ 12:56 PM
If someone gives you a blank canvas and says " It's yours, you are free to do with it as you will!"
Do you then expect them to oversee every aspect of what you are drawing or painting?
What if the one that gifted the canvas is also the one to paint on it?

Say our observable existence was like a gifted canvas and we were free to express/record our story on it.
We exist currently in perfect conditions that allows life to perpetuate even though the cosmos' natural state is entropic.
We were not given a broken used up canvas. Many of us are through OUR OWN choices are pissing on it and destroying it rather using our WILL to paint our story with fine oils and brushes.

If we are part of the creative source (call it God for now) then aspects of the omnipresent god are also the ones telling/painting the story.

If we are to assume that the creator lives omnipresent through all dimensions and that our existence is only a minute expression/reflection of that infinite creative force, then we are experiencing all joy or suffering WITH that which we are from. Everything we experience has for the observable creator been and gone and we are simply playing it out in the 3rd dimension under the perceived restrictions of time.

Time is likely the 4th dimension.
The debate is : is it a fixed landscape ? or is time in flux? If it is fixed, everything has already happened observable by something/s from a higher perspective.

That which created this existence did not not go back and course correct to remove free will and knowledge. If you are a Christian you believe that Christ was the embodiment of the creative word and provided for us the ability (still via our free will) to exist back with original creative source. (salvation)

edit on 13-7-2019 by zazzafrazz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 13 2019 @ 02:11 PM
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I don't like you being my god. You this and that. Give people a break.

posted on Jul, 13 2019 @ 03:39 PM
Before Adam and Eves fall, everything lived in peace, the animals, people and all. When they fell, sin was introduced, and caused due to their free will and all. We ALL have a sinful nature, and sin is what causes cancer, murder, rapes, and because of our sin, we die. But we can have ever lasting life. We are/ you are saved by grace through faith, not by works, least any man boast. As long as you believe on Christ died for your sins, save you from hell and he was resurrected, that he was the lamb, when you die, you will go to Heaven, if not, your hell bound.
Simple, sin caused the world to be the way it is. At times, there is a miracle that happens, shows God is in control of the world, I am one of those miracles, and God gets the Glory.

posted on Jul, 13 2019 @ 09:28 PM
a reply to: zazzafrazz

All he gave me was a previously-started paint-by-numbers canvas; some dried-up sponge brushes; and a couple of old tins of paint, with thick skins on 'em...

Just kidding.
Perhaps Da-Vinci could possibly still have created a masterpiece with those simple tools?

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 01:07 AM
God is real. And he may have created this planet. But the devil created this reality

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 08:47 AM
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Now this is beautifully worded!

Thank you for that!!!

I was trying to convey this very message from a more mathematical point of view.

If you wonder how your idea could actually work, read this thread

I'd say it's pretty intense so take a moment of quietness to dive into it

Sincerely No Clue

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 12:33 PM
Everything's said and done.

The last judgment.

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 01:12 PM

originally posted by:BrianFlanders 1. Because there's no such thing as God?

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is[i/] none that doeth good.
Ps 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: none that doeth good.

edit on 7/14/2019 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 01:40 PM

originally posted by: glend
I plan to stay a while

Please understand this comment is intended with tongue-in-cheek and in reflection of my experiences. I think you're nuts!
edit on 14/7/2019 by DictionaryOfExcuses because: Why is my post in italics?

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 02:08 PM
a reply to: ChesterJohn

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1;7

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 04:42 PM

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
To answer your second question.

He gave humans a mind of their own.

God did not pollute the world, humans did.
God did not murder millions of people in wars, humans did.

No matter how delusional in their understanding.

Typical evasion. Supposedly, we're "god's children". Well, I know with my own children, when one does something harmful to the other I use discipline for the offender and try to help the victim. No "god" should ever let his/her/its creation suffer because others in that creation did something destructive. That''s a massive cop out. I haven''t known of any god to cure those afflicted with cancer, or feed the hungry or any other benevolent act. If a benevolent god existed, there should be countless more people who have been healed, fed and comforted.

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 04:56 PM
a reply to: Visiting ESB

We as humans see just the present. God on the other hand sees the past,present and future. Now imagine you had billions of children , billions of children that dont believe you even exist and turned away from everything you taught them. You would want your children to turn to you yet they dont.

Also the picture maybe too big for our minds. What if 10 has to suffer to save 5000 people in the near future. Think about time travel and how simple changes can cause massive ripple effects.

Ps i have seen miracles god has done

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 05:00 PM

originally posted by: ReligiousQuestionDude
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

A lot of the suffering we face is there as a result of our own actions. It's very easy to blame everything on God. Yes, God knew you were going to screw up, but he gave us free will to screw things up. Why? Because when we screw things up, we turn to God for help and forgiveness. God LOVES when you turn back to him after you screw something up. Believers are most close to God in times of hardship. If only good existed in this world, a lot of us would've neglected God.

Again, nothing but excuses for the failure of a (nonexistent) god to protect those he claims to love.

HE created a world that is corrupted. HE is so enormously egotistical and psycho that he wants worship before even thinking about MAYBE healing the sick. And then he expects this fragile creation, humanity, which is subject to so many mistakes and poor decisions (just because there usually isn't enough information to make a good decision), to "overcome" the flaws HE allowed to remain in place.

So, look at this example: Suppose you have a child that gets addicted to some illegal drug. That drug is killing them and causing them to do things that makes their life fall apart. The choice of whether to take that drug (before the addiction set in) was theirs. They made a bad decision. You are a relatively successful person with financial means. You have two choices:

A -- Have your kid enter a treatment facility which you will pay for. You just want your child to recover and live a full life despite their stupidity in taking this drug. You intervene, have them enter the program and $40k later, they emerge drug-free and addiction free.

B -- You choose to follow "god's" example. You tell your kid that "this is your fault and you have to pay the consequences" even though I have the power to help you get back on track. You further tell your kid that you first want their love and point to a lengthy letter you wrote your kids years ago and say "I gave specific guidance in that letter" and even though you never showed up at their most important milestones, you say "Love me and I MIGHT help you, if it's my will to do so."

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 05:09 PM
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Well maybe he exists, but he has no clue about parenting

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 05:21 PM

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Well maybe he exists, but he has no clue about parenting

Yes and he "loves" us so much that he allowed his son to be tortured and slaughtered so that we could get the chance to worship him. Rather sick, I'd say. And it sounds completely like a human-concocted story.

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 05:28 PM
a reply to: Visiting ESB

God created a peaceful earth. It was mans choice that corrupted us. Sure god requires worship and admiration and theres no guarantee you arnt going to suffer even if you do worship and admire god. This could be seen as cruel if you believe there is only one life. One lifetime of suffering is insignificant compared to eternity of peace...honestly we would be psycho not to take that offer.

And concerning your scenario, what about option C.
C - send him messengers that will encourage him and tell him "none is perfect, we all fall short of the glory of god" introduce him to the bible and show him how create a relationship with god".

Btw i have seen this work as i live in a drug riddled city in South Africa. Sure you can scream at god for the child on your road thats starving and god will be screaming at you saying "havent i given you enough to feed the child and yourself?".

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 05:35 PM
a reply to: Visiting ESB

There is a little bit more to it i think!

I would say it's the human mind creating the drama, written by "god".

And it's disharmonious because we are not aware of how perceived reality gets created. We don't know how to paint or even dance.


posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 06:01 PM
a reply to: Puppylove

While I don't disagree, there are varying schools of thought on how—or even if—"god" intervenes in creation.

The question on why god would allow so much suffering was one of the first ones that caused me to seriously reflect on and question the concept of god as described by organized judeo-christian religion.

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 07:55 PM
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

posted on Jul, 14 2019 @ 08:01 PM
If you believe in religion and the idea of a supreme being which, for lack of a better term we call God, then you probably have come to a few conclusions that most others have also reached.

God created life and He gave that life free will. The fact that God created you does not mean everything you do is ok. It means you have the freedom to do as you like, but there will be consequences. For example, someone from the lgbtqx-yaddayadda community says, "God made me, and God doesn't make mistakes." Fine. God may bigots and gay bashers too. Does that mean its ok to hate and hurt people?" Of course not. Just because you can do something does not mean it is ok to do it or that there will not be consequences for it. And that goes for both sides of that argument.

In regards to suffering, that is also a matter of actions and consequences. God does not want us to suffer, but He will not prevent it either. He gave us the world and everything we need to make this work. If we choose not to, for whatever reason, then some will succeed and some will suffer. If one man has more food than he could ever eat and another is hungry, that is not God's fault. Those two men have a choice. They can work that out on their own and neither will go hungry or, at some point there will be consequences.

I asked once long ago why God didn't just show himself and save all of us. Who would choose to suffer eternal damnation if God is no longer a what-if? The answer is simple. Religion is faith-based. Without faith, what good is it? It is the faith that makes religion worthwhile. Take away the incentive for faith and it loses its purpose.

It all comes down to free will and the choices we make.

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