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on the question why does God allow suffering

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posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 08:41 PM
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why does God allow suffering


Perhaps god *is* suffering.




posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Liquesence

It's a terrifying thought, and why I find the idea that anyone can be so deluded to think any being who created this universe is in any way benevolent so unbelievable. People tell me, all you need to do to see the wonders of god is look around me, I'm wondering what alternate reality they're seeing, because all I see is horror. The only way the world is beautiful is if it's not created, because you can find beauty in people succeeding in finding some joy, despite the horrors of the universe. But to think the universe is created to be this way, and not just a random chance is a nightmare, because the sadistic tyrant that must be in charge if that's the case is horrifying.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Do you know what the odds were against you, me, any of this being here at all? Let's just say it was far, far more likely that there would be nothing here, not even planets than that there was anything, let alone life, let alone life like we have. Even one tiny number's difference in a parameter would make it all come crashing down into nothing.

And yet, here we are.

You can choose to believe you are the product of that one lucky monkey Shakespeare run, but what are the odds they got it right as soon as they were chained to those typewriters?



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Nothin



It seems that ego-death, is very similar to suicide, in many ways.


Ego death sounds a bit scary. If in us, are two. Its not so much the death of one, as to the birth of the other. A comparison might be made between us witnessing a computer that receives stimuli from the internet. If we switch the computer off, we will still able to witness the blank screen. We still be able to love and feel sorrow. Our brain on the other hand (aka computer) cannot feel true love. Its craving love that depends in what it receives in return. In the past I have sipped the difference. When people describe it as total bliss they are not too far of the mark. The division between our thoughts and the thoughts of others, dissolve. One becomes united with nature.

Invictus has given me strength in the past...
....


Ego-death is scary: to the ego! Fear!
(Have not done that myself.)
Perhaps it is the ego that craves to be loved, along with wanting everything else?

Does it not seem that a lot of suffering: comes from us not getting what we want?
Or from the world not being as we would wish?
Grasping, craving, wishing, wanting: are these not how we cause suffering to ourselves, and others?

Thanks for offering the poem for all. It's beautiful!



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:10 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Nothin

Ego death doesn't stop suffering to anyone or anything else, it just turns you into a chair.


A chair you say?
Not sure what you mean?

How can you be so sure?
Or are you just guessing?



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
...but also a evil hating god according the Bible.
.
Be careful of the punctuation. When you say "evil hating", I know that you mean "evil-hating", but trolls can take it the wrong way.

Someone Somewhere (God) loves all expressions of emotion whether they be hatred, love, sadness, loneliness, jealousy, lust etc...because it is an energy force it can CONSUME or trade or move around to benefit Some Other Someones.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: Liquesence

why does God allow suffering


Perhaps god *is* suffering.

Nope. God is REJOICING as it is YOU eating up your angst, pain, confusion. This is not suffering; to IT this is a free Vegas style Buffet...a FEAST.
edit on 11-7-2019 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:17 PM
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"Do you know what the odds were against you, me, any of this being here at all?"

Odds are a human invention. Do you think any God cares about odds? Does nature? Nope--it's not an equation. Nobody's placing or taking bets.

The thought of never *completely* understanding cause/origin is horrifying to many people, so some answer is better than none.

I tend to believe things just are as they are, and I'm okay with that; I'm at peace with the universe. This approach works for me. Your mileage may vary. Pray for my soul if it makes you feel better; I appreciate your concern.




posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:19 PM
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I just want to add into this conversation that of Hindu belief (also kabbalistic view of what is). That God alone exists. So its not a question if God exists in their belief, moreso, if we exist, as disunited beings. They believe our perspective exists in a state of maya, a great delusion that is somewhat akin to the dreams we have at night. And like dreams, one day we will awaken to realise that this reality was also a dream. That no-one was really hurt in the dream.

So in this dream, we feel suffering. But without suffering we cannot learn forgiveness. Nor love without hate. So the purpose of the dream is to realise our state of enlightenment (already achieved in the timeless void), though our senses. With the higher aim of God, to know thyself.

Some religions purport that one can escape the dream from salvation etc. But most religions also teach that selfishness will never be rewarded. So we cannot exit the dream as a reward. We can only exit the dream as a sacrifice to others. For the good of the whole (aka Fathers will).

I consider Khadro-la as one of the most spiritual persons breathing today. She says "People try spiritually to achieve realization. The true realization is to achieve a kind heart. Other than that, there is nothing really that is useful. Nothing else. The things that we can completely trust, that will never betray us or fail us, are kindheartedness and bodhicitta."

Bodhicitta is a spontaneous wish to attain enlightenment motivated by great compassion for all sentient beings, accompanied by a falling away of the attachment to the illusion of an inherently existing self.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: Nothin



Does it not seem that a lot of suffering: comes from us not getting what we want? Or from the world not being as we would wish? Grasping, craving, wishing, wanting: are these not how we cause suffering to ourselves, and others?


Perhaps its not one or the other (ego or spiritual eye). But a combination of both. As written in Gospel of Thomas - ("when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female").

So I find myself shifting my perspective yet again. From redirecting my focus from me to others. Helping others is the only joy that never fades in me. aka practising Bodhicitta. So I don't plan to exit for the sake of exiting. I plan to stay a while



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: glend

Yes, Invictus is my favorite ever too. When my younger son enrolled in the army I carved the last paragraph on a name tag and gave it to him to wear it together with the official one. I told him to read it in his darkest, loneliest hour and find strength in it.

Thank you for the kind words you spoke earlier.



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Not sure what that's supposed to mean...


That God has some good qualities for being a sadist.



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Do you have children?

When your child was learning to walk, how did you handle it? He or she must have fallen, perhaps many times. Sometimes, he or she must have fallen hard enough that it hurt, maybe badly. Why did you let that happen? Why did you let your child suffer? Are you not a loving parent? Don't you care?


Are you saying that when my child hurts itself it's my fault? Maybe it is.
I know that when it hurts itself I would be there to take care of it.
Giving it the opportunity to learn to walk is bad?



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Liquesence

It's a terrifying thought, and why I find the idea that anyone can be so deluded to think any being who created this universe is in any way benevolent so unbelievable. People tell me, all you need to do to see the wonders of god is look around me, I'm wondering what alternate reality they're seeing, because all I see is horror. The only way the world is beautiful is if it's not created, because you can find beauty in people succeeding in finding some joy, despite the horrors of the universe. But to think the universe is created to be this way, and not just a random chance is a nightmare, because the sadistic tyrant that must be in charge if that's the case is horrifying.


Not only the God who created it has a will, also some of the creations, like you and me. Shut down the television and take a break from the horror. You never experience any kind of happiness? You take care of nobody?



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 12:57 AM
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It's not that bad to think bad about God only to be given good things in life that make you think, well God you have a good side but why are all these people doing such bad things sometimes?



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 01:05 AM
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Why does God allow good things to happen?

Did anything good ever happen in your life?



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 03:26 AM
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originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
To answer your second question.

He gave humans a mind of their own.

God did not pollute the world, humans did.
God did not murder millions of people in wars, humans did.

No matter how delusional in their understanding.



Thought God murdered millions of people in the flood, or how about the destruction of sodom and gomorrah? Or how about when he goes on one of his baby killing sprees?
They may not be so much act of wars, but more like genocide...

So he gave us our free will? Then told everybody to worship him and follow his every command or you will go to hell for eternity!?!

The guy is a psychopathic dictator full of hate and lust for revenge, more people have been killed in the name of God than by anything else

Also, he DOESNT EXIST!!

Who did you say was delusional???



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 05:19 AM
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originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
To answer your second question.

He gave humans a mind of their own.

God did not pollute the world, humans did.
God did not murder millions of people in wars, humans did.

No matter how delusional in their understanding.



Thought God murdered millions of people in the flood, or how about the destruction of sodom and gomorrah? Or how about when he goes on one of his baby killing sprees?
They may not be so much act of wars, but more like genocide...

So he gave us our free will? Then told everybody to worship him and follow his every command or you will go to hell for eternity!?!

The guy is a psychopathic dictator full of hate and lust for revenge, more people have been killed in the name of God than by anything else

Also, he DOESNT EXIST!!

Who did you say was delusional???


It's because when you don't submit to God you remain wicked. You know, a lying and cheating good guy.

What is God?
edit on 12-7-2019 by Out6of9Balance because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: Out6of9Balance

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Do you have children?

When your child was learning to walk, how did you handle it? He or she must have fallen, perhaps many times. Sometimes, he or she must have fallen hard enough that it hurt, maybe badly. Why did you let that happen? Why did you let your child suffer? Are you not a loving parent? Don't you care?


Are you saying that when my child hurts itself it's my fault? Maybe it is.
I know that when it hurts itself I would be there to take care of it.
Giving it the opportunity to learn to walk is bad?


I'm saying that your demands that God keep us all from all suffering would be similar to what I am saying. Pain is a part of growth and learning. You learn through suffering.

I suppose another way to look at it is to examine the story of the Garden of Eden. God make a perfect world in the beginning, and he gave mankind a choice -- follow His way and stay in perfection or choose to do it our way and fall from perfection because we are not perfect. We chose our way and independence. Now we learn the same way a child learns to walk - through painful trial and error. And suffering is the results because we don't always make wise choices or good choices and sometimes we aren't the only ones who suffer for it, even if we fool ourselves into thinking that's the case.

God stepped back to let us do it that way.

The alternative is to let Him guide us and everything. No freedom; no choice. I often find it ironic that the very ones who rail the most against God and the idea of Him controlling us are also the ones who demand He make everything perfect, but they don't seem to understand that the two things go hand in hand -- Perfection and His absolute control over it all, especially when so much of the world's suffering is caused by our own choices and actions.



posted on Jul, 12 2019 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Not all learning is caused by suffering. We suffer when we are reminded to times where we did not suffer. There's nothing to learn from pain. God does not test with evil things. Love teaches.



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