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on the question why does God allow suffering

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posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 02:24 PM
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I don't think that there is a question of God allowing or not allowing suffering. I don't think that the unidimensional idea of a God that police us all the time is correct.
Ok, you may say, but if he is almighty, all knowing and so on and all this suffering is happening, it must be with his accord.

The point is that maybe, just maybe God is not a one faceted thing, an entity.
For example I would try, just for the sake of it, to replace "God" with "life", as in life in it's entirety. Then whatever they say about God applies almost word by word to life. Life IS the creator of everything, life can be merciful or fierce in its vengeance, life is suffering and happiness in the same time, life is diverse, universal, almighty. We are part of life and life is us. We do get born and die as individuals but life continues through us and after us. Yes we are images of life, but one of millions. Yes there are rules to follow if we want to stay alive, and yes death is inseparable from life. It's us that have to get in line with life if we want to survive, not life that have to pander to us, as the life itself will always be the greater force. And no one will ask why life allows this or that thing to happen but will keep fighting for life as this is our stronger, deepest instinct from the tiniest bacteria to the most intelligent humans.

Not saying that God is exactly life but you get the idea. More of a force or a principle than an entity.
In which case the question of God allowing suffering doesn't really applies.
What if God also suffers our suffering and enjoys our joy?
And also what will really be our life without suffering? An endless, boring, static experience. We live in a dualistic dimension, we can never know light without darkness, good without bad. So maybe, just maybe the suffering has its purpose...

I'm not a believer nor an atheist per se; hard to say what I am and what I believe, but I like to think a lot about these things because there is a lot to think about.
One thing I am sure of tho; the religions totally failed in their mission to bring God to human understanding, and the consequences are very sad. For humans, not for God.




edit on 11-7-2019 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: Out6of9Balance
All the suffering in the world is caused by man when will humanity owns up to that fact. Until then we will keep blaming God who some say does not exist so the only ones to blame is us.




All the suffering in the world is caused by man when will humanity owns up to that fact...


Ya see: the problem with making a wide-sweeping claim like that, is that maybe somebody's gonna call you on it.
And it can't be backed-up, or proven in any way, so there you are: dangling.

Can we help you out of that precarious position?
You know: back it up a little, maybe?



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: Out6of9Balance

The lower worlds exist for us to face adversity and to overcome these challenges. It isn't meant to be pleasant, but it is part of the process we must go through to temper our souls and open our hearts to divine love. Since none of the physical world is real none of this matters other than what we learn about ourselves and the world around us.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: TheTruthRocks

A just and loving god but also a evil hating god according the Bible.

The bible tells us also animals were created and then the day before he rested he made man.
Later on he allowed even man to eat the flesh of animals.

On the new earth the lion will sit by the lamb and there will be no more death and no more memory of how things used to be.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
...but also a evil hating god according the Bible.

Be careful of the punctuation. When you say "evil hating", I know that you mean "evil-hating", but trolls can take it the wrong way.


edit on 11-7-2019 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders
1. Because there's no such thing as God?

2. If there was such a thing, the being would have to be more of a sadist or something to have done all of this by design. Kind of a bizarre belief system some people have. But that's humans for you.

3. That's satisfying enough for me.
dudes....

Naw dudes.....Creation screams at you.....duh



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: WhiteHat

I see your point, it's interesting.

But did life also created itself then?

We sure speak of God as the creator of eXiSTeNce.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: WhiteHat

I see your point, it's interesting.

But did life also created itself then?

We sure speak of God as the creator of eXiSTeNce.



I think, but of course I might be wrong that life (or God for that matter) it always was and will always be in one form or another. I'm talking about something with no beginning and no end. I don't know if is a form of energy, a form of consciousness or whatever, but there must be something that remains when all else ends, something that allows a new beginning, over and over again. And God must also be eternal, otherwise would not really be God.

"We sure speak of God as the creator of eXiSTeNce."
Why not speak of God as the existence itself?
Just food for thought...



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: WhiteHat

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: WhiteHat

I see your point, it's interesting.

But did life also created itself then?

We sure speak of God as the creator of eXiSTeNce.



I think, but of course I might be wrong that life (or God for that matter) it always was and will always be in one form or another. I'm talking about something with no beginning and no end. I don't know if is a form of energy, a form of consciousness or whatever, but there must be something that remains when all else ends, something that allows a new beginning, over and over again. And God must also be eternal, otherwise would not really be God.

"We sure speak of God as the creator of eXiSTeNce."
Why not speak of God as the existence itself?
Just food for thought...
cause He sent us intstructions for success.......on planet Earth.....big ole thick read
edit on 11-7-2019 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God did create a world where we must eat or suffer, and the act of acquiring food means one must compete with other beings and others people, causing suffering for them. God did create disease, weather, death. God did create birth defects, viruses, etc. I'd say about 95% of the suffering inflicted upon the world can be linked directly to God if God exists... So yeah if God exists, he's a sick twisted sadist who's created a universe where all beings spend their existence trying to protect themselves and their loved ones from as much suffering as possible all while being forced to inflict suffering on other beings to do so.

Even if God gave man free will, he also made suicide a sin, and suicide is literally the only action a person could commit to stop bringing suffering to others, but wait, people they love will hurt, so yeah suffering there too.
edit on 7/11/2019 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/11/2019 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God did create a world where we must eat or suffer, and the act of acquiring food means one must compete with other beings and others people, causing suffering for them. God did create disease, weather, death. God did create birth defects, viruses, etc. I'd say about 95% of the suffering inflicted upon the world can be linked directly to God if God exists... So yeah if God exists, he's a sick twisted sadist who's created a universe where all beings spend their existence trying to protect themselves and their loved ones from as much suffering as possible all while being forced to inflict suffering on other beings to do so.

Even if God gave man free will, he also made suicide a sin, and suicide is literally the only action a person could commit to stop bringing suffering to others, but wait, people they love will hurt, so yeah suffering there too.


If God exists he would also make healers and believers who can raise the dead.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Not sure what that's supposed to mean...



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Do you have children?

When your child was learning to walk, how did you handle it? He or she must have fallen, perhaps many times. Sometimes, he or she must have fallen hard enough that it hurt, maybe badly. Why did you let that happen? Why did you let your child suffer? Are you not a loving parent? Don't you care?



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God did create a world where we must eat or suffer, and the act of acquiring food means one must compete with other beings and others people, causing suffering for them. God did create disease, weather, death. God did create birth defects, viruses, etc. I'd say about 95% of the suffering inflicted upon the world can be linked directly to God if God exists... So yeah if God exists, he's a sick twisted sadist who's created a universe where all beings spend their existence trying to protect themselves and their loved ones from as much suffering as possible all while being forced to inflict suffering on other beings to do so.

Even if God gave man free will, he also made suicide a sin, and suicide is literally the only action a person could commit to stop bringing suffering to others, but wait, people they love will hurt, so yeah suffering there too.


Your comment is a very good description of the first noble truth in Buddhism, that life is suffering. But instead of seeing an internal cause for that suffering you are trying to externalise the cause for that suffering onto something that may or may not exist. The second noble truth in Buddhism is that the root cause of all suffering is desire. Desire that encompasses self greed, self ignorance and self hatred/anger.

So instead of blaming that suffering on the stimulus that our senses receive. Perhaps we need look within and try dissect the real root cause of that suffering. That its not the external stimulus. But how we comprehend it.

Just saying.

edit on 11-7-2019 by glend because: never trust edited comments



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 07:13 PM
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"When your child was learning to walk, how did you handle it?"

Falling down and getting back up is similar to suffering from things like cancer and starvation?



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 07:23 PM
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originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
"When your child was learning to walk, how did you handle it?"

Falling down and getting back up is similar to suffering from things like cancer and starvation?



If the point of this life is to prepare us for the next, then in a way, yes. This world is good, not perfect.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: WhiteHat

I'm not a believer nor an atheist per se; hard to say what I am and what I believe, but I like to think a lot about these things because there is a lot to think about.



A mind not lost in all the mediocrities is a beautiful thing WhiteHat. In gospel of Thomas, Jesus asked his apostles to describe him. The only apostle that couldn't, was given higher training. If I have not misinterpreted its meaning, a God that can be labelled, is not a God, but a thing. A God that is a thing cannot be the God.

So think you are far more spiritual than those that believe in their spirituality.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God did create a world where we must eat or suffer, and the act of acquiring food means one must compete with other beings and others people, causing suffering for them. God did create disease, weather, death. God did create birth defects, viruses, etc. I'd say about 95% of the suffering inflicted upon the world can be linked directly to God if God exists... So yeah if God exists, he's a sick twisted sadist who's created a universe where all beings spend their existence trying to protect themselves and their loved ones from as much suffering as possible all while being forced to inflict suffering on other beings to do so.

Even if God gave man free will, he also made suicide a sin, and suicide is literally the only action a person could commit to stop bringing suffering to others, but wait, people they love will hurt, so yeah suffering there too.


Yeah: that's what was the supple hint, about suffering not caused by man, behind my comment to PhilbertDezineck.
But you said it first! Good call!

Other than suicide: it can be 'somewhat' dealt with through transcendance, as described by Glend just above this post.
It seems that ego-death, is very similar to suicide, in many ways.

Used to have a link to a great poem about the concern of causing suffering to others, but it was on a computer that crashed.
Could possibly track it down, if anyone is interested.



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: Nothin



It seems that ego-death, is very similar to suicide, in many ways.


Ego death sounds a bit scary. If in us, are two. Its not so much the death of one, as to the birth of the other. A comparison might be made between us witnessing a computer that receives stimuli from the internet. If we switch the computer off, we will still able to witness the blank screen. We still be able to love and feel sorrow. Our brain on the other hand (aka computer) cannot feel true love. Its craving love that depends in what it receives in return. In the past I have sipped the difference. When people describe it as total bliss they are not too far of the mark. The division between our thoughts and the thoughts of others, dissolve. One becomes united with nature.

Invictus has given me strength in the past...

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
edit on 11-7-2019 by glend because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2019 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Nothin

Ego death doesn't stop suffering to anyone or anything else, it just turns you into a chair.



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