why all the hate for the material world my dudes?

a reply to: Omniview

I don't think the goal is to hate the physical reality, but to acknowledge the metaphysical reality that is connected to this reality.

Acknowledgement that what you do in the physical will have effect upon your metaphysical reality.

Your metaphysical reality can or may be a break point between various realities of various densities.
Example you are human and fail at this life by inflicting too much pain and harm so your soul material is then re-manifested into a lower vibrational density Existence to rebalance your deeds and energy emitted from them. Now you return as a inhabitant of some lower vibrational sad-pain based reality w/ memory wipe.
Now your consciousness has to guide you through that lower reality to hopefully help you to Ascend into a higher dimensional reality eventually when you gain Spiritual strength and awareness re-memory of your lower vibrational activities or deeds.
Now the consciousness plays as your Eternal spirit memory not destroyed/displaced by time space or mind wipe technology as your various high density and lower density physical body forms may have been as your Eternal metaphysical soul/spirit/internal energy transitions the phases of Life and Death within Existence.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Id say the only issue there is when folks try to then convert others to do the same.[/quote
And what a huge freekin ''only'' that is.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Haha ain't that the truth

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

So, where do you put humans on this climb towards perfection? Are we near the top or is this just a plateau for the material world, where there are multiple levels of spiritual being left to experience?

Why don't people create ideologies to make this life the best it can be instead of making so many mental prisons that suffering is the only option left?

a reply to: ClovenSky

I put the human Spirit on the level of making progress with potential to advance, but others from the spirit realm may not want the spirit of humanity to develop. For that advanced level of awareness and development may free many who are currently trapped consciously/spiritually.
A freedom that may cause losses elsewhere if we are to consider the lower dimensional realms feeding from saddness and pain emitted from the human Spirit/Soul group.
And so negativity and ignorance is encouraged upon the human spirits why within the more dense human bodies in order to lower the human spirit energy to feeding levels...

a reply to: Serdgiam

I agree with alot of what you say.

What is the easy way, what is the hard way?

For all the disharmonic situations you listed, it needs an observer to categorize them as such, this observer has the possibility to create both dis- and harmonic situations!

How can we define if the disharmonic situation is only percieved as such or if it is a disharmonic situation in it self?

I see untouched nature as very harmonic. Every part from life to death is integrated in one big cycle, and what thrives are the ones finding their place, in the big game of take and give!

This planet is arguably still the only one in reach that gives us everything to thrive?
Why aren't we thriving?
How can we give back?
Maybe first we stop taking more than we need?
Then try get our head together and then we might be able to start painting harmonics, for the betterment of all.

I disagree with you about Imagination i think it is the key to the Future.
if you can't imagine it and bring it into a thought and from there into a word and then giving it form, how can new ideas be born and comprehensively shared?
Honestly no clue

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Now that is a scary thought. To believe there are pure spiritual levels that love/need to feed off of pain and suffering.

I would view the belief in realms like that with the belief that we don't have free will. That our behavior is simply a function/reflection of our environment & genes.

I have had so many thought experiments that end up going against the possibility of a spiritual realm like that. I like to believe there is some neutrality in the design of this reality, some protection for us wonderful souls with amnesia. The longer I live and the more I experience lends strength to this protection, like a veil between our material world and the spiritual.

a reply to: Omniview

Well, that or the evolutionary triggers that worked as cavemen DONOT when applied to a modern society..

Now I’m not saying we are or are not but just as a disclaimer......


If we are assuming we are genetically designed to rape, aka not care about consent, that still doesn’t make rape translate to a modern society..


Rape my kin and I kill you... your kin kills me and we are off to the races Hatfield and McCoy style..



I also think that is where the illogical fear of leaving an abusive relationship comes from..


For thousands of generations if you left your mate you and the kids starved...

I think that translates to that fear today..


It is an evolutionary throwback..

originally posted by: Omniview
To preface im 23 and i'v been stuck on this spiritual and philosophical ride since i found "The library of halexandria" back when i was 10. Ever since then i've seen the rise and fall of all the indigo children # and of course your 9th dimensional pleadian wobble, and the clash of old mystery religions and new age other-think, Gnostic mythology of some SOUL MATRIX stealing all of our precious soul juices so on and so forth. feel free to really cram this thread up with even more view points as I've tasted many but have truly eaten none.

At the moment im discussing the viewpoint that we live in a dense material substrata of some greater reality outside of the physical paradigm of time and space. Which is a glorious paradise to be sure if one is looking in the right places. But why on earth would that make this reality thing evil? So we find ourselves stuck in some infinity inverting and looping timey whimy structure, one that maybe has a few paradoxes caused by interloping entities or future/alternate timeline versions of ourselves or whatever and an Assload of suffering. Suffering caused almost exclusivly by ignorance and greed.

I still cant reconcile that the goal of everything is to completely escape physicality in it's entirety. Because (And i may be wrong) This inevitably comes to the conclusion that Any attempts to imagine a better future, a better physical reality, is futile. Because the goal is to escape and not fix. I End up fighting myself when really smart people debate me with this particular line of reasoning and the end result is something along the lines of (all of your thoughts and desires concerning the material are just stones around your feet, regardless of how utterly fantastical and Utopian. Probably doubly if so)

My response is usually (Yea i get that but once we get out there why wouldn't we want to make a better version of this incredibly complex game being played? Why wouldn't we project something greater onto the lesser?)

this then ends in a circular argument where the desire to do literally anything in the physical world good or bad is pointless because of the nature of the true reality and that having that desire will STOP you from achieving the true reality. This puts me off the philosophy so hard because it gets me in the same mental space as Christianity did. Where threes this massive limitation that i can literally imagine myself around and yet this massive supposedly limitless version of existence cant.

Once again butchering the explanation but i figure you guys are smart enough to infer, thats why i included the first paragraph.

So the real questions is, Why wouldn't we just turn into super beefy versions of ourselves, in fact, the absolute highest pinnacle of our possibilities? I know self growth and discipline is big in the east. But if i said something like ( i wanna create a society where everyone has perfect genetics/ all human experience is cataloged for future generations with perfect recall to cross reference, and reality is basically one big beach party but on every single planet in the universe populated by 8 foot tall demi gods with perma sculpted abs.)

those Jangos would sit me down and tell me I'M insane, i mean did you even picture the part with the Abs?

anyone, someone, explain why thinking like that is counterproductive to my spiritual enlightenment and we will have a cool and fun discussion on the subject.

Great topic.

The point of spirituality is grounding into society. You have to love yourself, it is only because you have a body here that you can be spiritual and we have to be spiritual with eachother. We have to work the land and live and survive.
Spirituality leads to confusion and confusion leads answers. A lot end up in a crisis because it takes a while to master spirituality. Spiritual people, and I'm not pointing to anyone, are in theory actually the grounded people. They master the world and themselves.

Spirituality can lead to control but only to learn from this mistake.

@Op i have to admit, i haven't read your first post (few words maybe), so i'm responding to the question in the title:

"why all the hate for the material world my dudes?"


If you are Spiritual being, which you are, and do not know it, then focusing on material good is what is preventing you from knowing your Spiritual counterpart.

Even, if you would, "hate" the material world is contraproductive, because hate is one of the reasons why you are in this, so called, "MATERIAL" world.

In the "material" world, it is normal to "posess" things. In the Spiritual world, what you try to posess, you would lose.
Actually in the Spirit world you can have things, and you DO have everything that you need (there). But to have it and to keep it, you have to share it.

So about the hate:

People are able to interpret things (sayings) differently, according to their understanding and prevailing hidden beliefs.
So what one says, in their extremly radical way, may sound as Hate to some other, while ones who do think same, will understand it perfectly.
(for eg.: Imagine Optimist and Pessimists points of view.)

And even Jesus, in the bible said "if you want to be perfect, sell all things and give it to poor, and you will have treasures in heaven. Then follow me."

Some believers are taking this seriously, and are determined to radically free themselves from material posessions.
Some do recognize that this is helping them, but may not understand the power of belief, as yet.

If you are in this material world and do not know your Soul or God, then your Spirit being is Asleep.

a reply to: Omniview

I don't hate the material world - I love it. It's the only world that exists. We have no evidence any other dimension of existence 'exists'.

I love life, I love being alive and have NO DESIRE to die. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell or any afterlife. To me, when you die, it's like those deep sleeps you have when you have no memory or sense of passage of time; it's an period of time when you simply didn't exist.

That's what death is. And I don't like it.

So I embrace life and everything in it. Doesn't mean I live frivolously or without fore thought of consequences, but I value this material world 100x over any made up horsesh*t about the 'spiritual' or metaphysical or some astral plane of existence.

Live for now, love yourself, your family, your friends, the animals and plants and everything alive. It's the only time you have and it will never exist for you again. Love it while you can.

a reply to: Omniview

It’s not the material world, it’s the material mindset that values material things over others. This leads to the wanton greed that causes so much of the worlds problems.

a reply to: noonebutme

Quantum physics is making it clear that this dense physical reality is not as absolute we were led to believe!

Birth is beautiful and so is death! One without the other is pointless. In-between there are the colors. If you don't embrace death the older you get the more unpleasant life will become!

Enjoy it while it lasts and don't be afraid to die ever.
It is part of the experience. Try avoiding it but don't get motivated to do something stupid out of fear of death!

Does the caterpillar die becoming a butterfly?

im not advocating death of the physical body!!! Take it as metaforical death of ideas or thaughts that where part of your identity!

Shells have to die in order to fly!

Cheers no clue!

originally posted by: Omniview
...
anyone, someone, explain why thinking like that is counterproductive to my spiritual enlightenment and we will have a cool and fun discussion on the subject.

Because things (such as ideas/philosophies) that are not true can never truly enlighten anyone. They can also be quite distracting from true spirituality (especially when spending lots of time discussing or thinking about them).

Finding True Enlightenment
In Search of Spirituality
True Spirituality—How Can You Find It?
Materialism or Spirituality—Which Do We Need?

Note that the term "materialism" in the last article is using the following definition/meaning:

“a preoccupation with or stress upon material rather than intellectual or spiritual things.” Thus, materialism is rooted in our desires, our priorities, and our focus in life.

Also see my signature regarding mental poison and how the text under my accountname relates to that in regards to what you fill your mind with, or feed your mind so to speak.

a reply to: NoClue

I don't fear being dead... I'll be dead so I won't know I do fear HOW I will die, but I'm sure most people do.

But I woudn't make death into the caterpillar/butterfly transformation analogy -- at least I wasn't thinking that. Because for me, in both states, the caterpillar is alive, it's just physically transforming but still alive.

When we die, we don't transform into something better, higher, more elevated. We cease to exist. Which I don't look forward to because there is so much in this world I want to see and experience.

It's like that Christopher Hitchens anecdote about being asked to leave a party; everyone will continue to have a good time while you're gone and you have no say in being asked to leave

a reply to: noonebutme

I'm glad we enjoy the party as long as we're allowed to, i love it as well, the beat, the colors, the emotions, it's beautiful when in harmony, creating new beats and new dances.

The butterfly caterpillar was not about death of your physical body!

I don't know what happens if I leave the party. But I'm not affraid to go!

Sincerely No Clue

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Omniview

It’s not the material world, it’s the material mindset that values material things over others. This leads to the wanton greed that causes so much of the worlds problems.

It's nice to see comments on this subforum that are spot on. Cause that happens probably rarer than you might think. People expressing their unverified imaginations that usually have no bearing on reality and for which little to no evidence (depending on what one considers to be valid evidence) is available, is usually the more popular and frequent behaviour here.

It's more often called materialism by the way ("the material mindset"), in case you were looking for that word. But your term is quite appropiate as well and even gives more information what it's about (see the fuller definition in my previous comment for a slightly different way of putting it, which is from a dictionary).

a reply to: NoClue

Easy way would be like lightning, hard way would be like erosion (youll probably get "there," but itll take a while). There is value in both, and everything in between.

I think I prefer the term "dissonance" to "disharmony." But, in either case, I dont feel there is anything to be "fixed" there and that in the cases I listed, we might actually be looking at instances of harmony. Harmony can be incredibly destructive, too. Either way, dissonance or harmony, awesome music can be made.

As for reimagining the same things in a modern context, Im not sure it really introduces anything new or novel. Im not the type to think there is "nothing new under the sun," so I believe that actually using our imaginations and introducing novelty is preferable to rewriting civilizations old paradigms into the modern Cultural Story and then acting as if its "new."

Not only is that a relatively natural process, and well accounted for in the long established paradigm, its been done in literally every generation for thousands of years. Id say that it reached equilibrium long, long ago honestly.

Id say there is still immense value in exploring it, at least for some, but novelty (in the most general interpretation) is just as likely to be introduced by someone(s) who has not even thought about philosophy, spirituality, etc.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Omniview

It’s not the material world, it’s the material mindset that values material things over others. This leads to the wanton greed that causes so much of the worlds problems.

But all there is are material things. What “others” do we value material things over?

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Omniview

It’s not the material world, it’s the material mindset that values material things over others. This leads to the wanton greed that causes so much of the worlds problems.

But all there is are material things. What “others” do we value material things over?

Love over greed.