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To honest Democrats: Yes Taxes are a necessity; How much in taxes are enough?

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posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 10:57 PM
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Consider me a swing voter. I am on the fence between democrats or republicans.

Do taxes really support the people?

Do taxes support the election?

Can democrats support a unified city response?




posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:03 PM
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Paying taxes isn't the problem, it's just the ever dwindling rate(it seems) of citizens that actually pay into the pool of state/federal income tax.

You CAN"T have a society where the few pay for the many.

At best, the money gets stretched to thin, at worst, the payers just get fed up and say F it and prefer a collapse rather than some sort of tax reform.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

Wouldn't it depend upon how they were spending the money they get from taxes?

If they are spending it on health services or essential infrastructure, then all good, but spending it on something that the public has little access to or need for, is just plain bad governance.

Also, taxes should give equal value to all citizens. If a tax funnels money into the hands of those who are already wealthy and from those who can least afford to loose it (Pareto principle From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), not good.

edit on 3/7/2019 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: EternalSolace

Wouldn't it depend upon how they were spending the money they get from taxes?

If they are spending it on health services or essential infrastructure, then all good, but spending it on something that the public has little access to or need for, is just plain bad governance.

Also, taxes should give equal value to all citizens. If a tax funnels money into the hands of those who are already wealthy and from those who can least afford to loose it (Pareto principle From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).


Most every government NEVER cuts back spending, they just want more. More blood from the stone. Sure they can point to the "good" things that everyone agrees on(social health services, mental health, necessary infrastructure) but the problem is it's all squandered because it's a "government" rate and not beholden to the competition of private industry.

They always want more, more spending, more taxes. Even if the taxpayer base(percentage of population) remains the same, it will reach a breaking point. Not to mention if the base is actually dwindling.

I don't mind paying taxes, 25 to 30 percent, that's fine, but after decades(i'm not old either) of watching them piss that away and cry for more is getting old.

At this point, I, like many, am probably fine with flipping the table and going from a tax contributor to a tax burden.

There are just some things you can't fix, no matter how much of "my"(taxpayers) money you throw at it.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:17 PM
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sales tax as of this coming October will be 10%. its a crying shame in this country where there was no sales tax before



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: musicismagic
sales tax as of this coming October will be 10%. its a crying shame in this country where there was no sales tax before


You(I, for example) pay 25 percent of my income to state/fed income tax. Of whats left, I pay 10 percent to property and then 8 percent everytime I buy something.

They are counting on nobody doing the long math...

The reality is that for every dollar you make 40 to 50 cents gets gobbled up in taxes...and what the F for. For a bunch of people that can't make their own way in a capitalist society where there worth is measured by their contribution(wealth=contribution...almost sounds socialist).

Taxpayers....REAL taxpayers are tired of propping up this crap. While I'm in the minority(i'll gather worms for cash to live in a backwoods cabin if need be), most fail to do the math and just continue to feed the corruption.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:35 PM
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Reality is that almost 50% of country pays no federal income taxes. The bottom 5% basically has a negative tax rate meaning they take out more than they put in. The top 10% pretty much pay like 90% of the taxes. This is just at the federal level. Then you start talking at state and local taxes. Some folks are literally paying like 50% of their income in taxes.

I just got my property tax bill. My property taxes here in Chicago on a relatively modest house (worth maybe $525k on a good day run about $13,000). The tax bill has doubled in the 15 years we've owned the home. However, my property value has remained relatively stagnant.

The sad part is 65% of my tax bill is basically supporting teachers/fire/police pensions. In other words, I am paying about $8k/yr to fund someone else's lavish retirement. Then I have to be disciplined enough to save for my own.

There are only so many of us who can pull the wagon. At some point, people are going to have to get out and walk.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: musicismagic
sales tax as of this coming October will be 10%. its a crying shame in this country where there was no sales tax before


Wow. A NATIONAL sales tax?! What country?



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
Reality is that almost 50% of country pays no federal income taxes. The bottom 5% basically has a negative tax rate meaning they take out more than they put in. The top 10% pretty much pay like 90% of the taxes. This is just at the federal level. Then you start talking at state and local taxes. Some folks are literally paying like 50% of their income in taxes.

I just got my property tax bill. My property taxes here in Chicago on a relatively modest house (worth maybe $525k on a good day run about $13,000). The tax bill has doubled in the 15 years we've owned the home. However, my property value has remained relatively stagnant.

The sad part is 65% of my tax bill is basically supporting teachers/fire/police pensions. In other words, I am paying about $8k/yr to fund someone else's lavish retirement. Then I have to be disciplined enough to save for my own.

There are only so many of us who can pull the wagon. At some point, people are going to have to get out and walk.


Exactly, and at some point you(and I) will just say F it and realize we are better off working the drive through at wendy's(great discount on food).

I don't work to pay for someone elses RV trips and luxury car retirement trips.

I WON'T, on principal alone.

It should be a wake up call for the gimme gimme gimme dems as well as the trickle rates the GOP wants. You WILL run out of producers long before you run out of recipients.

The biggest issue, is the ever increasing rate of "producers" that get on the "watch the world burn" bandwagon. When you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't is less work and somehow, at some point, slightly more satisfying.
edit on 3-7-2019 by MisterSpock because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: musicismagic
sales tax as of this coming October will be 10%. its a crying shame in this country where there was no sales tax before


Wow. A NATIONAL sales tax?! What country?


I believe he's in Japan, but he could be referring to another county.

But maybe not, like I said...ALL governments just want MORE....MORE MORE MORE...

Take from the producers, give to the weak and somehow expect no animosity to brew because of it.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

Taxes are necessary to a point. But then there are places like Illinois too. I believe that Illinois is a perfect example of DC. The people in charge make a ton of promises. Then, to pay for those promises, they raise taxes like crazy. The problem isn't the taxes. The problem is that the money never goes where it is supposed to go. Every crony, every ghost payroller, every pocketed bundle of cash, every slush fund, every payoff, and dozens of other improprieties, are all holes in the bucket. The people in charge make a run to the well, fill up the bucket, but by the time they get where they are going the bucket is empty.

Here is the real problem: instead of plugging the holes or getting a new bucket, idiot politicians think the solution is to make more trips to the well. They will spend millions paving roads to the well. They will finance studies on well usage and proper bucketing techniques, all on the tax-payers tab of course. They will do anything except the one or two things that might actually solve the problem.

And I correct myself here: the real problem is voters who keep putting these people in office.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 11:50 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: EternalSolace

And I correct myself here: the real problem is voters who keep putting these people in office.


90 percent of human beings are idiots(i'm being generous).

It's time the other 10 percent wise up and let the dumpster consume those we have tried to "protect" out of some misguided attempt at "solidarity".



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 01:54 AM
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There is this thing called the Laffer Curve which basically shows where the ideal tax rate is. As you go above the ideal tax rate, returns (tax revenue) diminish because there is less incentive to produce or to earn higher amounts of $$. Like wise, if you go below the ideal rate, the government is missing out on revenue and this is where people become rich because there is more incentive to produce - all at the cost of the government loosing revenue to "help" the people.

The thing is with this curve is that there are many variables that go into calculating it. There are internal and external factors such as (external) competition from other countries - their tax/tariffs, their subsidies, their exchange rate and then all of that factors along with the amount of trade being done with each country. Internal factors are a little more fixed but there are still a lot of things that effect it. I'm not sure there was ever an exact equation developed to determine this curve but I would think that if someone could do this, it would WELL be worth a Nobel Prize in economics.

I believe that this curve/theory was the justification for the 1980's (Reagan) tax cuts. I don't think they actually knew what the ideal rate was and it is kind of appearant as they had massive tax cuts, increase in deficit and a massive increase in individual wealth for the top 1%. If an actual equation could have been created instead of just a general theory then they could have shown that they were cutting taxes way too much and it was only going to hurt the economy, government and nation.

Maybe nations could work together (especially with European countries as they seem to have pretty good economists) to develop an equation that could be transposed to different countries with the use of variables for each of the countries unique factors. The rate would need to change fairly regularly - even once per year isn't ideal, but we would have to settle on that b/c the way taxes are paid.


en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 7 4 2019 by DigginFoTroof because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: EternalSolace

And I correct myself here: the real problem is voters who keep putting these people in office.


90 percent of human beings are idiots(i'm being generous).

It's time the other 10 percent wise up and let the dumpster consume those we have tried to "protect" out of some misguided attempt at "solidarity".


I'm sad to say I think you are right about the 10%. It is also only going to get worse b/c we are rewarding the "worst" of the nation by subsidizing their laziness and ignorance/stupidity and they are breeding like rats.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 05:07 AM
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We pay nearly 50% of our income in taxes (depending on the state you live in). Most are just hidden (gas tax, sales tax isn't hidden but just kinda there, taxes hidden in utility bills, higher prices on all consumer goods to pay corporate taxes, etc). We do need taxes for roads, military, and schools, but a LOT of tax money is just wasted (sent to foreign countries, paying for illegal immigrants, etc).



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 05:35 AM
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a reply to: MisterSpock

You forgot a bunch of taxes, like FICA.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 07:03 AM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
Consider me a swing voter. I am on the fence between democrats or republicans.

Do taxes really support the people?

Do taxes support the election?

Can democrats support a unified city response?



It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What does matter if the purchasing power of your take home pay.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: MisterSpock
Paying taxes isn't the problem, it's just the ever dwindling rate(it seems) of citizens that actually pay into the pool of state/federal income tax.

You CAN"T have a society where the few pay for the many.

At best, the money gets stretched to thin, at worst, the payers just get fed up and say F it and prefer a collapse rather than some sort of tax reform.


I read somewhere that 90% of what is spoken on the Internet is just smoke coming out of someones butt!

RE: "ever dwindling rate"

Here are the facts:

Employement-population ratio



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 07:54 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: musicismagic
sales tax as of this coming October will be 10%. its a crying shame in this country where there was no sales tax before


Wow. A NATIONAL sales tax?! What country?


Japan and it getting worse. Property taxes are very low here and health insurance is reasonable, but taxes all add up at the end of the month.



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 08:26 AM
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Naw, more than enough taxes are being paid to fund utopia, it's all the bureaucratic and political corruption and the constant warmongering of the military industrial complex misusing all the funds that's the problem. There will never be enough taxes no matter who pays what, cause only a small percent of the taxes ever really go towards accomplishing what it's for instead of padding the pockets of the corrupt.
edit on 7/4/2019 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



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