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recommended reading on the history of Christianity?

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posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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Hello, all!

I'm new here but I've been reading these threads for a few months. I've come to believe that there are some serious people here that might steer me in the right directions.

I've been reading about the history of Christianity for more than 10 years and I am beginning to wonder if I'm reading the works of recognized scholars or just throroughly debunked junk.

Which authors, scholars, and books do you recommend?

For background and a framework, I got interested in this topic because there is so much about Christianity that seems deeply suspicious - especially the Vatican. I just can't believe in the KJV version of much of anything. I was raised Southern Baptist and taught from an early age that everything in the Bible was literally true - those "red words" were exactly what Jesus said, right? Well, at some point in my teen years, I finally realized that Jesus did not speak English so, that part was a lie - what else were they not telling me?!

I read everything with an open mind and a healthy dose of sceptisism. I'd appreaciate your helping me get "caught up" to the point where I can join in some intelligent conversations with you.

Thanks!
Al




posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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I'd start with the Desert Fathers, and the Nag Hamaddi texts. The gospel of Thomas is good. Confessions is good. Philometes if you don't mind the philosophy.


St. Bede is sort of a bore, but interesting after a fashion. Zoroaster is particularly interesting to me, and to others who are interested in the commonality these religious myths share. The similarity just daisy chains back through history...

www.meta-religion.com...
The above is a good site, if I'm remembering right.

www.christianbook.com...
An interesting book, but really only a drop in the bucket. There are so many mysteries of the faith. I suggest you become a jesuit..if you REALLY want to know.


Best of luck to all. And too all a good night.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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My advice would be.....don't look for any of mans words. Look deep within yourself. GOD still talks to us today....through your conscience....not through some text written and re-written thousands of years ago. What does GOD say to you right now? Seriously meditate, think, contemplate upon that and you will find the truth behind all the hype. No offense any Christians out there.

Edited to add....not just Christians....Jews, Muslims, Pagans...any religion....seriously....your conscience is the key...not what you were taught but what you really feel......

[edit on 3-3-2005 by MacMerdin]



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 10:23 PM
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Well I dont think every story is true. Some of them were just stories that gave good morals to live by.

Read exodus thats a good book. One of my favorites is the story of Ruth. Its about a mohibite women( idol worshipers). Dont want to give away the ending so I wont say much. She was born into the mohibites and was going to be sacrificed when she was I think 5, but on the day she was sacrificed as strange mark appeared out of nowhere and was not sacrificed because it was an imperfection. Then the next day it was gone.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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Greatings,

here is Peter Kirby's suggested reading list :
www.iidb.org...
The original has links.


Primary Sources in Translation

The Nag Hammadi Library in English by James M. Robinson, et al.

This book contains translations of all the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi. The texts reveal the Gnostics as they saw themselves, not as the Church Fathers characterized them, and thus these texts have provided a wealth of information for the study of ancient Gnosticism and, by extension, ancient Christianity. The translation has been conducted by a team of scholars, correctly noting the lacunae and those places where reconstruction of the text is conjectural or where the English equivalent is approximate. This ensures an accurate translation. Moreover, the notes alone justify the low, mass paperback price of the book. Each one of the documents is introduced with excellent notes on estimated dating and other information critical to an understanding of the text. This volume is a welcome addition to the personal library of any person who professes an interest in the history of early Christianity, and it is absolutely necessary to anyone who is interested in ancient Gnosticism.


New Testament Apocrypha : Gospels and Related Writings by Wilhelm Schneemelcher (Editor), R. M. Wilson (Translator)

This is the standard scholarly work with up-to-date translations of all the ancient noncanonical Christian writings. This volume contains Oxyrhynchus 840, Papyrus Egerton 2, Oxyrhynchus 1224, Cairensis 10 735, the Fayyum Fragment, the Strasbourg Coptic Papyrus, the Secret Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Nazareans, the Gospel of the Ebionites, the Gospel of the Hebrews, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of the Egyptians, the Gospel of Peter, the Book of Thomas, the Freer Logion, the Epistula Apostolorum, the Apocryphon of James, the Dialogue of the Saviour, the First Apocalypse of James, the Dialogue of the Saviour, the First Apocalypse of James, the Second Apocalypse of James, the Letter of Peter to Philip, the Gospel of the Four Heavenly Regions, the Gospel of Perfection, the Gospel of Truth, the Sophia Jesu Christi, the Dialogue of the Redeemer, the Pistis Sophia, the two Books of Jeu, the Gospel of the Twelve, the Lukean Gospel of the Twelve, the Memoria Apostolorum, the Manichean Gospel of the Twelve Apostles, the Gospel of the Seventy, the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Judas, the Apocryphon of John, the Fragments of a Dialogue between John and Jesus, the Apocryphon of James, the Gospel of Bartholomew, the Questions of Mary, the Gospel of Mary, the Genna Marias, the Gospel of Cerinthus, the Gospel of Basilides, the Gospel of Marcion, the Gospel of Apelles, the Gospel of Bardesanes, the Gospel of Mani, the Protevangelium of James, the Infancy Story of Thomas, the Arabic Infancy Gospel, the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, the Abgar Legend, the Gospel of Nicodemus, the Gospel of Bartholomew, and the Gospel of Gamaliel.


New Testament Apocrypha : Writings Relating to the Apostles Apocalypses and Related Subjects by Wilhelm Schneemelcher (Editor), R. M. Wilson (Translator)

This second volume contains the Kerygma Petri, the Epistle to the Laodiceans, the Correspondence between Seneca and Paul, the Pseudo-Titus Epistle, the Acts of Andrew, the Acts of John, the Acts of Paul, the Acts of Peter, the Acts of Thomas, the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, the Pseudo-Clementines, the Ascension of Isaiah, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra, the Christian Sibyllines, the Book of Elchasai, the Coptic Apocalypse of Paul, the Coptic Apocalypse of Peter, the Apocalypse of Paul, and the Apocalypse of Thomas.


Introduction to the New Testament

Who was behind its making and what did they have to say?

Introduction to the New Testament: History, Culture, and Religion of the Hellenistic Age by Helmut Koester

It is foolish to try to study the New Testament without looking at its context. Koester provides a survey of the background of the times that is brilliant in its scope.

History and Literature of Early Christianity by Helmut Koester

This is the second volume in the introduction by Harvard professor Koester. It is my personal favorite NT introduction.

The History and Theology of the New Testament Writings by Udo Schnelle

Cowboy X can't say enough good things about this one. And, hey, I like it too!

An Introduction to the New Testament by Raymond Brown

A prolific and respected New Testament scholar wrote this NT introduction for the layman at the height of his career.

Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton L. Mack

Mack offers a portrait of the development of mythologizing that became the New Testament.


Jesus Myth

The Jesus Puzzle by Earl J. Doherty

Without a doubt the best book expounding a Jesus Myth theory.

The Jesus Mysteries: Was the 'Original Jesus' a Pagan God? by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

Popular book, but I was not impressed. Watch out for those bloopers.

The Jesus Myth by G. A. Wells

Wells has allowed that there may have been a historical Jesus in Galilee yet maintains that the Jesus of early Christians (e.g. Paul) was a shadowy figure of the indefinite past.

Jesus : One Hundred Years Before Christ by Alvar Ellegard

A variation on the Wellsian theme. Includes a stylometric argument for dating the gospels.

Deconstructing Jesus by Robert M. Price

Actually, Price addresses a bunch of different topics in a way that will be interesting even to the staunchest HJ believer.


Historical Jesus

OK, so maybe there was a historical Jesus . . . did he prefer Pepsi or Coke?

Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen

Argues that the crucifixion is explained by an eschatological Jesus.

The Historical Jesus: A Comprehensive Guide by Gerd Theissen and Annette Merz

Delivers what it promises. See my review.

The Historical Jesus by John Dominic Crossan

The result of years of labor examining the Jesus tradition and the ancient Mediterranean culture.

Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium by Bart Ehrman

Ehrman suggests that only later texts (such as Luke and Thomas) have a realized eschatology (i.e. the kingdom is here now).


The Gospels

Studying the Synoptic Gospels by Margaret Davies, E. P. Sanders

Discussion of the synoptic problem, form criticism, and other topics.

Jesus After 2000 Years by Gerd Luedemann

Useful commentary on the ancient gospels with an emphasis on historicity.

The Five Gospels by Funk et al.

The results of the deliberations of a team of researchers that made a big splash in the media.

Gospel Parallels: A Synopsis of the First Three Gospels

Presents Matthew, Mark, and Luke in a parallel format; this book is particularly helpful when studying the 'Q' document.

The Gospel of Thomas

In my mind, the most fascinating text in early Christianity.

The Gospel of Thomas and Jesus by Stephen J. Patterson

Features a comprehensive argument for the independence from the canonicals of most sayings in Thomas.

The Gospel of Thomas by Richard Valantasis

A commentary on the Greek fragments in themselves as well as the Coptic text, this book emphasizes the ascetic tendencies of Thomas.

The Gospel of Thomas by Stevan Davies

Davies does a commendable job in making Thomas make sense.


The Early Church

Splitters!

The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels

An exploration of the sociological factors that shaped orthodoxy. (Read this book instead of her new Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas, which isn't really about Thomas.)

St. Paul Versus St. Peter: A Tale of Two Missions by Michael Goulder

A revival of the Judaistic-Hellenistic dialectical theory of Christianity's origins.

The Changing Faces of Jesus by Geza vermes

An overview of the portraits of Jesus found in John, the synoptics, etc.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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A hearty welcome.



Originally posted by Al Davison
I read everything with an open mind and a healthy dose of sceptisism.


I believe you have too. That was about the best and most refreshing "intro" I think I've seen. A truly open mind.


I hope you get all you seek out of ATS membership and more. Please challenge us and we'll challenge you. Should be great conversations.

Having said that, our own forums hold a decent primer for alot of the information you seek, but I'm not about to recommend any one perspective over another. Read 'em all.


My suggestion aside from just the study of the history of Christianity though would be additional exploration in related topics that might assist in a more critical evaluation.

Not sure what you might like though? Ancient philosophy is an idea. Plato is a great start.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by RANT]



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Well AL welcome,

I would be leery of some of the links you are given as most here do not even believe in Jesus or God.

My recommendation is that if you do not like the KJV, you can try a study Bible with the NIV or my favorite the NKJV.

As for the writings in red, I would go purchase Quickverse for around $30 and use the software in it to interpret the original Greek and Hebrew and see if the meanings pan out in English, I think you will find that they do.

EDIT and be damn careful of the Gnostic views and links listed above, there was a reason that the council of Nicea dropped those type "books"




[edit on 3-3-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Well AL welcome,

I would be leery of some of the links you are given as most here do not even believe in Jesus or God.

My recommendation is that if you do not like the KJV, you can try a study Bible with the NIV or my favorite the NKJV.

As for the writings in red, I would go purchase Quickverse for around $30 and use the software in it to interpret the original Greek and Hebrew and see if the meanings pan out in English, I think you will find that they do.

EDIT and be damn careful of the Gnostic views and links listed above, there was a reason that the council of Nicea dropped those type "books"




[edit on 3-3-2005 by edsinger]


haha, i told you we agree on a lot! Although you are obviously more informed than I, but these last 8 months here on ATS have given me so much more knowledge in different areas, it is incredible. Thank you ATS for not only reaffirming my faith almost every day, but for the plethora of knowledge i have gained on various topics!



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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EDIT and be damn careful of the Gnostic views and links listed above, there was a reason that the council of Nicea dropped those type "books"


couldn't have anything to do with not agreeing with the established power structure right?

another good read is Honest to Jesus by Robt. W Funk

you might also find some other interesting reading by searching the Jesus seminar.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:43 AM
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I used to believe every single word in the Bible was the ultimate truth too. But I did what MacMerdin suggested around 2001 and prayed to God with a sincere heart and asked for wisdom. Since then I believe he has given some to me. Jesus talks about the kingdom within in the Book of Thomas. I do believe the way that doesn't work, is to look for external answers in this world. You can't be concerned about the external guidance. Same as things outside of you like materialism. It is a distraction and can lead you away from the true Truth. Look inside for confirmation. It may be hard to explain, but it is the simplist way to say it.

In the early 90's I graduated high school and started noticing the world wasn't the peachy world I thought it to be growing up. Then in 1998, I started to become engulfed in end time things. Which led me to conspiracies or what is the truth in the world or more specifically, the false truths I had grown up to believe. I became a conspiracy reader. I would gather up all the info I could and break it down to what was repeated over and over and over again. Not the same literal stuff, but connect the dots basically. Of course, I'm not in any of these groups so I can't say the ultimate falsehood picture that is the undeniable truth. But I can't deny now that after learning something and seeing it play out that something is and has gone on under the people's noses. It's called awareness. Someone said this the other day in here. True awareness and being free have an endless ceiling. I know illuminati aren't the only players. Anyway I found that I didn't need to know in full the bad things. I could know and should meditate on the good things. So I'm thankful to know some of the bad, for in war you must know your enemy. You can't just throw a grenade and hope it hits them. Meditating on the good is where you will go places.

I have to say the Bible does have wisdom, just some of it was added by man. Look with a sincere heart inside to verify what is correct. Another words... seek the Kingdom of God and all else will fall into place, sound familiar?

Back on this post recommended reading:
I came across David Icke Tales from the Loop. Then Conversations with God series(Very helpful). Then Early church fathers writings (book of adam and eve, book of moses, book of Enoch, etc. all apocrypha). Jophesus, Philo, Book of Aquarius was an interesting find, supposed unedited life of Jesus (missing 30 years), Valentinus and you name it.

www.pseudepigrapha.com/
www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/

This is one of the recent readings for me that Valentinus wrote to his family member, Flores, that was so helpful to me when it came along.
www.webcom.com...
and outlines the basic theme for me.

Some sayings of truth.
Everything has a purpose. (everything happens for a reason)

Good things are great to have happen to you, but the bad things in truth are the blessings. Bad things strengthen you and build character.
I realize this might hurt, but when you love your enemies (bad things) you can do nothing but gain. Do you hear me?

When you look inside for your answers, you are recognizing yourself and can compare what you recognized to the external as if a message is mirrored to you. Confirmation confirmed!

But no matter what this world is corrupt. There is nothing that is not corrupted in the five sense world scheme of things. Don't believe all of these links, every word, for nothing is perfect. But there is some perfect Truth.

For Illusion seems stronger than reality. Truth in reality is stronger than illusion.

[edit on 3-4-05 by pacman]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:16 AM
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Wow! Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! Please keep them coming.

I probably should have been more clear for some of you in order to get the most help. I'm looking for history first and foremost. Within the history, I can glean a lot of the background of the power struggles and motivations for the shaping of the flavors of modern Christianity. (I have a long and deep "hands-on" background in politics to help me, as well.) I suppose you might say it's an anthropoligical perspective I'm seeking - "how did we get here?"

As for the spirituality part of it, I'm very comfortable with my spirituality and not too terribly focused on details found in any texts for help with that part of my life. In other words, I'm not seeking to find religion or help for my soul. As an "amateur scholar " I'm looking for knowledge and an understanding of what others believe and how it has shaped western culture.

Please don't misunderstand - I'm not put off by any one who would offer advice or opinions regarding the spiritual aspects. I appreciate your desire to help another person. You should understand that this just isn't the part of me that draws me to this forum or drives my desire for knowledge.

Maybe to be more succinct, I'm confident and quite happy with my beliefs and relationship with God, humankind, and nature. My desire is to learn more about the roots of organized religious orders. I've studied about other religions but keep coming back to the study of Christianity and how it has impacted our culture because it's the culture in which I live.

I've no desire to try to either attack or defend anyone's beliefs - not even my own. I'll keep it academic.

Now, I've got to get myself to a good book store based on these recommendations because I will probably read everything that has been suggested although it will probably take a few years. I need to check my shelves - I think I have read a few of these but it has been a while.

More suggestions are welcome!



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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Self? How did I get here.



Originally posted by Al Davison
Wow! Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! Please keep them coming.

I probably should have been more clear for some of you in order to get the most help. I'm looking for history first and foremost. Within the history, I can glean a lot of the background of the power struggles and motivations for the shaping of the flavors of modern Christianity. (I have a long and deep "hands-on" background in politics to help me, as well.) I suppose you might say it's an anthropoligical perspective I'm seeking - "how did we get here?"


Ahhhh, then spiritual and philosophical BS aside...


One man's short synopsis of Christian history.


Seek objective (or at least multiple sources of) information on pre Jewish lore and mythology, the consolidation and adaption of Jewish lore and mythology, Jewish mysticsm, the Romanization of the known western world (NWO I), the reformation of Jewish tradition by the prophet Jesus, the rise of Gnosticism surrounding the prophet Jesus, the persecution of his early followers, the Constantine adoption of Christianity and formalization of the Christian State, the eradication of Gnosticsm and early followers of Jesus, the subsequent loooooong persecution of non-Christian subjects, the formalization of Christian capitalism (Knights Templar), the suppression of the physical and sexual devolution (Augustine) and institutionalized sexism of the Christian State, the Inquisition and the Crudsades (formalized Christian fascism), the Dark Ages and metaphysical supression of science, the Renaissance (and rise of secular revolt, intellectualism, science), the Protestant reformation and Pilgramages, the rise of Deism, Freemasonry and the Illuminati, the founding of the next NWO (AMERICA), the secular seperation of Church and State, the (short lived) democratic seperation of metaphysical fascism and Christianity, and the cyclical political battles ever since....

Christian Socialism, Secular Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Christian Fascism (literally Nazism), Fundamentalism, and on and on we go.

That's my theory anyway, but there's no one source I can point you to... sorry. Just have to read everything and decide for yourself.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Here's some less than common knowlege on christianity and other religons...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Well AL welcome,

I would be leery of some of the links you are given as most here do not even believe in Jesus or God.

I would be more leery or only reading the works of the devout and faithful. Would you suggest that only pious muslims can do proper research on the origins and nature of islam?


My recommendation is that if you do not like the KJV, you can try a study Bible with the NIV or my favorite the NKJV.

I think its obvious that the man has read the bible.

On the gnostic texts, I admit I do find it rather funny that they are treated as 'gospel truth' (so to say) by some, as they are normally further removed and less 'controlled' (in terms of the chain of evidence) than the already far removed gospels.


al davidson
I'm looking for history first and foremost. Within the history, I can glean a lot of the background of the power struggles and motivations for the shaping of the flavors of modern Christianity. (I have a long and deep "hands-on" background in politics to help me, as well.) I suppose you might say it's an anthropoligical perspective I'm seeking - "how did we get here?"

I had recently tried to see if there were any good introductory texts along those 'anthropological' lines, and also some good books on early matters of doctrine, at a bookstore but couldn't seem to find anything other than translations of various 'hereteical' gospels and the like.
I was happy to see Poster Iason had given a list, and am sure that there is at least one that can be intersting from this perspective. There is no 'Forum Subject Matter Expert' on very early christianity, but I dare vouche to say that he might very well qualify if there were one.

Now, I've got to get myself to a good book store

I've noticed that inter-library loans can be a real help in some of these situations.


rant
Self? How did I get here

Duh, by letting the days go by.

Now how do i work this website?



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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I also feel compelled to add that Joseph Campbell has some interesting related information in www.jcf.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">this
book, at least on the diffusionist/archetypical origins of the jesus passion. NOT specifcally christianity, and the book is really, as the title suggests, about primtive mythology, but Campbell is great and it might make an interesting ancilliary reading.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
Wow! Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! Please keep them coming.

I probably should have been more clear for some of you in order to get the most help. I'm looking for history first and foremost.
History then starts with historical records, not the perspective of others analysing the historical records.

If it is Christianity you are researching then might I suggest first rereading all of the NT books as though there were textbooks. Make note of every name you come across with a notation beside each as to who they are.

Next the works of Flavius Josephus, all except his coverage on the OT for a history of the Roman occupation of Israel to 2ACE. Note the names of all of the emperors, high priests, sons, daughters and officials and jot down a bit of info on each.

Then hunt up a listing of the elders or early church fathers as they appeared on the stage. Find their writings and read all of them in order of the appearance of the elders. You will then come to notice references to all of the characters whose names you have recorded, more historical writings and your research will begin to encompass that.

Identify every single synod and council that took place and read the available documents produced by same.

You might try accessing information for church documents from The Library of Congress, The British Museum, The Paris Museum as well.

You can form your own opinions this way without being swayed by others, and be prepared to spend years, I can attest to that.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Here are several good books I've read recently and actually added to my library.

When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome by Richard E. Rubenstein

This deals with the most critical time and events in the history of the Christian Church, those immediately preceding and following the Council of Nicaea. this was where the entire Christian Community (more or less) agreed on the basic theology of Christianity: the Triune God, Jesus as Complete Man and Complete God, the role of the Holy Spirit, etc.

Although it did not completely eliminate all non-orthodoxy, it began the decline of Arianism, which was unitiarian and "Jesus-as-Man" oriented. There are very few unitarians left today, except the Unitarian Universalists, and a few other splinter sects.

Rubenstein is Jewish, which provides much more of an objective and historical view; he has no sectarian axe to grind.

I don't have any basic books on Mithraism and it's relation to Christianity that i feel comfortable in recommending, but for a short and relatively unbiased overview, I'd recommend you point your browser towards www.vetssweatshop.net... .

Subsequent readings are up to you.

Interestingly enough, Mithraism was the last henotheistic western religion to impact Christianity today (I'm assuming that the Norse Gods and the God and Goddess of Wicca are not major Christian influences).

Interestingly enough, the fastest-growing religion in the West (12 million adherents worldwide with about half in the USA, while only 170 years old) is the only western henotheistic religion: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The LDS church is, in my opinion, to the mainstream Protestant Christians what Baha'i is to Shi'a Islam; there are some great parallels there.

Other good books are those which deal with other main points in the evolution of Christianity, the first schism between the Roman and Greek churches, and, of course, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, et. al. and the Reformation.

From a historical and scholarly point of view, I would avoid books about apocrypha, like the "Gospel of Thomas" and similar tomes. While they're entertaining to read, they're also controversial, not acepted by most bibilcal scholars, and don't have much impact on the existence, maintenance, and evolution of Christianity today.

For the same reasons, although they make fascinating reading, I would not recommend that someone interested in strict history read books about communism in church development, such as the Levellers, Fifth Monarchy Men, Shakers, etc. Again, great reading, but the impact of these millenialist or utopian communist sects are minimal to our understanding of Chritianity today.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_StreetFrom a historical and scholarly point of view, I would avoid books about apocrypha, like the "Gospel of Thomas" and similar tomes. While they're entertaining to read, they're also controversial, not accepted by most bibilcal scholars, and don't have much impact on the existence, maintenance, and evolution of Christianity today.


And the bolded part will automatically make it true in some eyes here, those Biblical Scholars are just pushing agendas. Right?

The Gnostic books although very interesting to read are very dangerous in that they deny the basics of what the "good news" is.

The only one that I really hold any credence to is the Book of Enoch and not the Gnostic Ethiopian one but the Aramaic one from the dead sea scrolls......It sure does fit very well with Genesis 6 imho.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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Nygdan:

I not only apprecitate the info you provided (not to exclude the others) but I appreciate your "lyrical" references more than you might imagine - I'm the percussionist in a very popular local Talking Heads cover band.


...same as it ever was

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Al Davison]



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