You want proof of evolution at work, here it is.... Enjoy! (Observable and testable).

I'll end this discussion with you now with the statement that I find God and religion
as about as believable as the flat earth theory!

Also Just wanted to ask , if you use science to understand the world and the universe around us ?
and you also believe in God


Ok , so you are aware that light from distant stars has taken longer than 7000 years to reach earth ?
based on our calculations

Then if that is the case how could god have created the Universe and everything in it and its only 7000 years old or whatever timescale Christianity uses , when light has traveled for a greater length of time than the age of the Universe which is proposed by Christianity and creationists

How do creationist scientists and religious people who adhered to science account for this ?

MACS0647-JD. MACS0647-JD is the second farthest known galaxy from the Earth based on the photometric redshift. It has a redshift of about z = 10.7, equivalent to a light travel distance of 13.26 billion light-years (4 billion parsecs).

a reply to: Dfairlite


I'd say that we are good at this type of memory

but dont take my word for it

a reason to believe

That basic equipment includes a memory system that appears to be exceptionally good at remembering the kinds of stories found in many religious texts. In particular, research finds that we most easily recall stories with some, but not too many, counterintuitive or “supernatural” elements. In one study, published in 2006 in Cognitive Science (Vol. 30, No. 3), Scott Atran, PhD, and Ara Norenzayan, PhD, tested people’s recall of concepts that ranged from intuitive — a grazing cow — to just slightly counterintuitive — a cursing frog — to extremely counterintuitive — a squealing flowering brick. Although people more easily remembered the intuitive stories an hour after reading them, a week later, they were more likely to remember the slightly counterintuitive stories.

This finding held up in both American college students and Maya villagers from the Mexican Yucatan, suggesting that stories with a few minimally counterintuitive elements, such as those found in many religious stories, are more easily remembered and, presumably, more readily transmitted from person to person, says Norenzayan, a psychologist at the University of British Columbia.

Another interesting part from that article

“It’s our cortical alarm bell, an ‘uh-oh’ response that is preconscious and emotional,” says Inzlicht. “When we make an error, it’s arousing, causing slight anxiety.” In a study published last year in Psychological Science (Vol. 20, No. 3), he measured this “uh-oh” response in people who performed a standard color-naming Stroop task.

Even though all of the 28 study participants made mistakes, the ERN firing was less strong in people with more religious zeal and greater belief in God. “They’re calmer and more graceful under pressure,” says Inzlicht.

In a second set of studies, published in August in Psychological Science (Vol. 21, No. 8), Inzlicht and his colleagues tested whether people who are born with a lower ERN response gravitate toward religion or whether religion actually lowers this “uh-oh” response. They asked participants to write about religion or about something that makes them happy and found that those who wrote about religion had a lower ERN response, suggesting that religion dampens this anxious response. Inzlicht believes religion’s effect may come from its ability to make people calmer overall by “explaining” phenomena we don’t understand.

originally posted by: sapien82

Ok , so you are aware that light from distant stars has taken longer than 7000 years to reach earth ?
based on our calculations

The big bang didn't occur at one point in the universe, it happened at every point in the universe simultaneously. It all turned on synchronously like pixels on a TV screen.

a reply to: cooperton

That's not what I asked you .



I wasnt talking about the big bang , I was taking about the length of time taken for light to reach us from distant stars




One of the largest galaxies we know of , light takes 40 million years just to go from one side of that galaxy to the other.
yet there it is , in full glory on hubble telescope
So if we can see it then light has traveled that far already

so what of 7000 years , if its gospel , as in the truth!

a reply to: cooperton

it didnt turn on like pixels on a tv screen

it took 200 million years before stars formed and started sending out photons of light

and then billions of years after that before the first eye could detect those photons , (only 550 million years ago )

Sorry I tend to get carried away with myself when I'm discussing something interesting and my brain goes off on one !

and I post multiple things without taking the time to collect my thoughts and respond all at once in a logical manner hahah.

So my apologies for that , to both Dfairlite and cooperton

I am just enjoying the conversation , and I dont want to come off as aggressive or mocking .

I am just asking questions , I understand if you think i'm taking the piss , i'm really just curious to know what you think .
So again I appologise if I have mocked you or your beliefs
It is not my intention to mock or wind you up .

a reply to: sapien82

how can you know your god is right if you don't have a relationship with the other gods have you ever tried ?

Yeah, I've tried multiple. From zeus to vishnu.

Yes those are important ideas to pass on , correctly .

And as you've so astutely pointed out, the details of the "creation myths" are eerily similar.

Of course, we're not talking about some important details here, we're talking about an entire history being passed down orally to everyone who may or may not have cared much about it at the time it was passed down and when they time came for them to pass it down, just may have gotten some things wrong. That's where the bible comes. That's when God has moses correct the major inaccuracies that have been accrued.

I'll end this discussion with you now with the statement that I find God and religion as about as believable as the flat earth theory!

Ok, I'll do likewise with the statement that I find your disbelief highly entertaining, like a jester to a king.

Then if that is the case how could god have created the Universe and everything in it and its only 7000 years old or whatever timescale Christianity uses , when light has traveled for a greater length of time than the age of the Universe which is proposed by Christianity and creationists

Oh, here I thought you were done. But you've brought more entertainment! The bible is not a scientific work. It is not concerned with the properties of the universe or the earth as that is not it's purpose. It is a document of the humanities and a spiritual guide. Your attempts to read physics into it doesn't affect it's veracity. The only physical properties of the earth described in the bible are general and as such impossible to interpret as meaning one thing or another.

It's like reading homer and being upset that some of the theories the readers had about it's origin were incorrect.

Personally I believe science is left out for a reason. It is up to us to discover the world and universe around us, to be right and wrong, to learn and to grow. However, I can see why some people try to read science into the bible or other religious texts. It's difficult to refrain from.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: cooperton

That's not what I asked you .



I wasnt talking about the big bang , I was taking about the length of time taken for light to reach us from distant stars

Yes but since the big bang supposedly occurred at all points in the universe simultaneously, everything may have become visible at once. Think of it, every point in the universe is equally the center of the universe as all other points in the universe.

it took 200 million years before stars formed and started sending out photons of light

What's the empirical evidence for this? Or is it just speculation?

so what of 7000 years , if its gospel , as in the truth!

If energy and light came from all points in the universe simultaneously, then things likely developed quicker than is assumed in the scientific community

originally posted by: cooperton
What's the empirical evidence for this? Or is it just speculation?

astronomy.com...

Get ready for more fake excuses and denial.

a reply to: Barcs

I'm no astronomer, so could you explain to me (or point me in the right direction) how they could possibly know that those frequencies are from those ancient stars? I mean, to even assume that much requires you to know the origin point of the big bang as well as the amount of time the stars have been gone as well as their position in the universe and the size of the universe at that time (which if I understand correctly, is not a constant nor logarithmic expansion). It seems very far fetched to think they know even two of those constants, much less all of them. Without all of them your math is whatever you want it to be.