My Idea for Western Global Policy

Well, as you all know, if we don't act soon, China WILL conquer the world. It's gradually becoming more powerful than the West, and will outpace in the next 50 years with current policy. To prevent that from happening, I propose the following changes:

---Remove ALL businesses from China- all their growth has been at our expense.
---Stop doing business with most of Asia except for Japan and South Korea because countries so near China are too easily influenced by them and so any help to them will help China.
---We will need a new source of cheap labor. South America is perfect for this. I'm not to enthused about Africa because of the lack of infrastructure there; it will be very hard to set up new businesses there. Keep Africa as a backup in case anything happens in South America.
---So basically, it's an entire western hemispheric nation consisting of Europe, North and South America, South Korea, Japan and Africa just for the resources. This is the only way, I think, that we can keep up with China and outdo them without waging war on them right now. It is EASILY within the West's capability at the moment.

hahahaha, thanks for a good laugh.

Impossible to implement, that containment scheme of yours.
Japan would quickly re-export repackaged Chinese stuff, and so will Korea. In the meantime, the Chinese economy will regroup and change to adapt, and since its markets are huge, might be able to thrive by itself and not overheat as it is now due to all exports.

So you might be doing a huge favor to the Chinese with your plan.

Bottomline: brush up your Mandarin, and marry a Chinese lady. Your grandsons will thank you for that.

This is a serious thread...

How is China becoming "more powerfull then the West?".

The US alone has about 5 times the economy, a military that has no rival, and dominates global politics.

China needs to overcome the US before we start talking about taking over the world.

I think the problem is that people are projecting China to keep up it's pace of developement for 50 more years. History says that will never happen. The economy will correct it's self, much as the stock market collapsed on black monday and the internet buble popped in the US.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by American Mad Man]

Another thing to consider is that eventually if China continues to become more economically focused, all that cheap labor is is not going to stay cheap forever. The higher standard of living that usually accompanies economic success cost money. Think China has human rights issues now? Wait until their people start wanting their cut of the goodies.

Originally posted by RedDragon

---Remove ALL businesses from China- all their growth has been at our expense.
---Stop doing business with most of Asia except for Japan and South Korea because countries so near China are too easily influenced by them and so any help to them will help China.
---We will need a new source of cheap labor. South America is perfect for this. I'm not to enthused about Africa because of the lack of infrastructure there; it will be very hard to set up new businesses there. Keep Africa as a backup in case anything happens in South America.
---So basically, it's an entire western hemispheric nation consisting of Europe, North and South America, South Korea, Japan and Africa just for the resources. This is the only way, I think, that we can keep up with China and outdo them without waging war on them right now. It is EASILY within the West's capability at the moment.

Thats an excellent idea. I wish more Americans thought as we do. Instead to many business people concerned with global growth stand in the way. We need to take care of ourselves. Get back on track. I do not mind paying higher prices for anything if its Made in the USA.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Event Horizon]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
How is China becoming "more powerfull then the West?".

The US alone has about 5 times the economy, a military that has no rival, and dominates global politics.

China needs to overcome the US before we start talking about taking over the world.

I think the problem is that people are projecting China to keep up it's pace of developement for 50 more years. History says that will never happen. The economy will correct it's self, much as the stock market collapsed on black monday and the internet buble popped in the US.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by American Mad Man]

You're only talking about current conditions. And, nations not stopping growth is not true. Look at the USA before WW1, very weak. During WW1, it became the world's largest economic power. It grew more in the 20s. Then, along with the rest of the world, it tanked in the 30s (relatively, still powerful). and after WW2 it grew even more into the huge collosas it is today. It's rate of growth effectively stayed above that of other nations' the entire time. Now, we have leveled out however. China, with billions of people, only needs to grow a fraction of what the USA did to achieve world dominance.

Sorry, but Communism will fall in China long before they would be in a position to take over the world. With the continued mixing of the global economies, international corporations are the "nations" of the future. The hand-writing is on the wall.

Look at the USA before WW1, very weak. During WW1, it became the world's largest economic power. It grew more in the 20s. Then, along with the rest of the world, it tanked in the 30s (relatively, still powerful). and after WW2 it grew even more into the huge collosas it is today.

You've recognized a great truth here. The great success of the USA is due, in virtually all respects, to the power of the Military Industrial Complex. No, I won't go into the whole JFK fiasco here. Those in the know will understand.

Originally posted by Partyof1

Look at the USA before WW1, very weak. During WW1, it became the world's largest economic power. It grew more in the 20s. Then, along with the rest of the world, it tanked in the 30s (relatively, still powerful). and after WW2 it grew even more into the huge collosas it is today.

You've recognized a great truth here. The great success of the USA is due, in virtually all respects, to the power of the Military Industrial Complex. No, I won't go into the whole JFK fiasco here. Those in the know will understand.

no, it's the complete opposite. we grew when we had a weak military. like in world war 1, we had a very weak military before we went in. we were not involved in ww1 so he traded with the warring britain a lot. that made us from a borrowing nation into a lending nation which gave us a huge economy. then that economy led to the millitary

Originally posted by RedDragon

we grew when we had a weak military.

Exactly my point, the weak economy was made strong by war supporting industries.

..we were not involved in ww1...

huh? yeah, pretty sure we were

Maybe explain your point a bit more?

obviously we were only in ww1 about 1/2 the time

i won't worry about china that much, the chinese encomy is based on western companies, they fall, so does china encomy. + china will have a lot of problems in the future most internal problems.

also i think we should not have cheap labor at all or cheap labor in other countries, enough is enough.

well its a good idea. youve got my vote!

RedDragon is right. The west, and especially the united states, are deindustrializing, which means real economy is diminishing in volume. Instead, our wealth comes from capital investment elsewhere. (imperialist model of world economy: they work, we consume). Under the paradigm of free competition between nations needed by global capital for maximizing banking profits and generous managerial payoffs, huge parts of our economies (excepting products of particular quality) cannot be competitive since our standards of living are higher than those in China. There are of course still differences in infrastructure who can temporarily shield our businesses from low-wage-labour competition (this goes more for the EU than the US), but these differences are quickly disappearing under China's concentrated efforts. This is being felt in the united states (mass impoverishment, lack of social protection) and in europe (high jobless rates).

In the world of capital profit maximization, Capitalist Democracy prevails over Communist Dictatorships, but Capitalist Dictatorships prevail over Democracies.

Simply put, you'll have to choose between democracy and capitalism.

The other solution would be a new world economic model, in which the economy serves the people, and not the other way around, global marxism.



[edit on 25-5-2005 by Moretti]

Originally posted by Moretti
Simply put, you'll have to choose between democracy and capitalism.

Nah I reckon capitalist democracy would do us fine if only it were implemented correctly. It allows liberalism to thrive, which IMO is its greatest strength. Yet its greatest weakness is in allowing economics to dominate all aspects of society.

When you allow the economy to rule all, everything becomes a cold, calculated and endless quest for profit and humanity is left entirely out of the equation. IMO our societies culture in particular has been ruined by this way of thinking. Just look at contemporary pop-music.

Capitalism's other major flaw is in giving way too much power to economic entities. Power which is then wielded using the economic and mathematical world-view, and as i mentioned earlier, humanity is entireley forgotten. This power should be left in the hands of democratic governments, which have systems in place to prevent such abuse.

Oh and also the fact its entirely unsustainable to consume natural resources at the present rate, and of course world poverty, and global warming.... yeah it doesnt have that much going for it really.

Its silly because all these flaws could easily be ironed out by progressive, assertive and liberal governments that truly worked for and represented the people. Unfortunately on the global stage nations must appease the powerful global economic entities, such as major banks and corporations in order to stay economically successful. In that respect we have governments which work for the economy, not the people. Thats the way our democracy is going, and it will continue to get worse if we just passively sit back and let it happen.


We're drifting more and more towards a capitalist dictatorship and it needs to be stopped.

Long live capitalist democracies!!

Originally posted by Moretti
The other solution would be a new world economic model, in which the economy serves the people, and not the other way around, global marxism.
[edit on 25-5-2005 by Moretti]

global marxism sounds pretty scary to me. Chances are you'd get some nutcase at the top who'd ruin it, just like what happened to national marxism.

We're pretty much buggered either way then aren't we..


Peace

China has been used by the USA ,Europe and Japan to make goods cheaper due to the low wages of the Chinese people. When the Chinese want wages on par with the West these companies will move to another place , like Africa to make there goods cheaper. What it means to us in the West is that we can look foreword to having no job or working for the same money as the Chinese.Seems to me everybody on the planet will be on the minimum wage.

Thanks for the interesting post. In response:

Originally posted by RedDragon

Well, as you all know, if we don't act soon, China WILL conquer the world.

So what? If they did, what would seriously change in your life? Are you more worried about the US being knocked from pole position or do you have some legitimate concerns regards China running the show?

It's gradually becoming more powerful than the West, and will outpace in the next 50 years with current policy.

I feel it is not as simple as that. Things have a way of balancing out. 50 years from now due to the 1 child system in China, which because of some heinous acts, is going to create a population that is largely male, things may be a lot different.

Money flowing into a country makes a big difference. Ireland during the Celtic Tiger years grew and changed incredibly in a short 10 year span. The same will happen in China. Money flows in, everybody wants a piece of the action and growth will slow and turn inward.

---Remove ALL businesses from China- all their growth has been at our expense.

Say what? Like the corporations care! Given enough time, when the current trend of business away from the US will lead to poverty, your wages will drop and probably then Chinese companies may come to you for cheap labour!!!

---Stop doing business with most of Asia except for Japan and South Korea because countries so near China are too easily influenced by them and so any help to them will help China.

And what do you tell the Japanese and Koreans? No business allowed with China? I'm sorry, but it is too late. All Asian countries have too much invested in each other. China is a massive market and everyone is dying to get a piece of the action.

As a matter of interest, what "influence" do you think China can project onto the rest of Asia?

---We will need a new source of cheap labor.

Why don't you just work smarter? Why hasn't Japan gone under yet, living next door to this huge "menace". I'll tell you why. They have the technology to manifacture better quality products faster. All the peasant labour in the world won't win the game for you.

I work for an electronics company in Japan. We have several plants in China. I could tell you a few stories, but the bottom line is, China is no big worry for the near future.

It is EASILY within the West's capability at the moment.

The moment the first corporation realised it could increase profit margins by out-sourcing, the West had already lost. The rest of the world is hungry for a piece of the action and we have all gotten too lazy in the West to do anything about it.

LOL And you neocons think liberals are paranoid!?!?
OMG!!! China might get a bigger stick than we have! We better take Africa and Latin America then...
You guys talk like the world is some big game of Risk. There's about 6.5 billion other people out there, with wives and kids and cars, families and dogs, you know, people. Not Americans, Not Chinese, Not Arabs, not little plastic pieces on a cardboard map, People Man.

"Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can..."
-John Lennon

Originally posted by twitchy
Not Americans, Not Chinese, Not Arabs, not little plastic pieces on a cardboard map, People Man.

Cant agrue with that.

Well said mate! Best 15 words i've seen on these forums

Peace