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The Case Against Playing in the Evolution Court.

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posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: Gojira54
This whole debate is stupid.

Whether or not there is a "god" or "gods", evolution is a real thing.

IF there is a god (I don't know, nor care if there are any deities.. the way I see it, IF a god or gods exist, we are obviously not supposed to know or understand them. Religions are ALL man made. None have it right... but I digress) then evolution is quite obviously a part of the plan. We share 99% of our genes with chimps! That is proof enough for me (and most people with at least half a brain) that evolution is real.

It doesn't matter if we are a creation, or a happy accident. Belief in a creator(s) should not preclude you from believing in evolution. To do so is to be blinded by your religion's ideology. They're trying to keep you stupid, Stupid!


it does matter whether we're a product of creation or evolution because your ENTIRE world view is shaped by it.

If we're not the product of creation then what's the ultimate purpose of being alive?

We're born, grow and get whatever we get from life, get old then die? that's it?




posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Jubei42

That’s why everything evolution was once believed to be is no more right?
Because of all those scientists that are always right, at least in their own minds...
Of course other scientists have proved that they were wrong especially Darwin...
Yet those scientists that proved the others wrong that can’t actually prove evolution still believe it’s the answer...
Now that’s profound faith!



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: richapau

That’s a total load of crap genetics is leaning away from the current faith in evolution...



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Creationists cant lose the argument with anyone who forwards evolution
Creationism has science on their side, their is no empirical evidence for evolution, evolution is a faith

Rather than defend creation, just contest the science of evolution and evolution dissolves almost instantly
Problem is the average evolution believer doesn’t have a clue what science really is.


I am a bit of a logical thinker, and I try and approach every subject with that approach. I can't find a single logical statement in the text I've quoted. Lay some scientific proof down on me Mr Raggedyman, doing all you can to look like Raggedy Anne (ha ha sorry was listening to Korn and Limp Bizkit "All in the Family" not 10 mins ago).

Seriously though, many Christians get by fine in a world where evolution theory makes the most logical sense apart from perhaps panspermia...



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: Jubei42
a reply to: Raggedyman

See the thing is, you don't have to believe in science/evolution. It's not a religion.

Just know that if you subcribe to the scientific method in any field, your diety just became a little less.... godlike


How did you arrive at that, really?

My God would get less because He used evolution?
How does that make my God less?

The amazing thing about people like you is that you think evolution is a fact when nobody has ever recorded an animal changing its own DNA, information being added to dna
How does that happen, God designed it and we can’t understand it

Your premise is childish, God could have designed evolution and we can’t understand how evolution works still.

Irrespective, I asked for empirical evidence for evolution, got any?
Do a woodcarver and run away from scientific answers when requested to explain evolution

As for science, science is a tool to study and measure, science does not create anything, science explains, science records, science explores, science is a tool and the tool does not create
You have been fooled into believing science is a god, science did not invent evolution, Darwin
Was late to the scene. If anything was responsible for evolution it was Greek philosophers or Chinese philosophers, not philosophy in and of itself but men practicing philosophy



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: edmc^2

it does matter whether we're a product of creation or evolution because your ENTIRE world view is shaped by it.

If we're not the product of creation then what's the ultimate purpose of being alive?

We're born, grow and get whatever we get from life, get old then die? that's it?








So, in your view, it is completely impossible for your creator to have set evolution in motion?

OK then.

I don't have any belief in a higher power. I believe it is a possibility, but I don't really see any proof of it anywhere. And I have a FIRM belief that if there is a higher power, not only has every single religion on Earth have it wrong, it would be powerful and wise enough to be able to set something like evolution in motion.

You don't think your god is that wise or powerful.

Thank you for your answer

edit on 26-6-2019 by Gojira54 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Creationists cant lose the argument with anyone who forwards evolution
Creationism has science on their side, their is no empirical evidence for evolution, evolution is a faith

Rather than defend creation, just contest the science of evolution and evolution dissolves almost instantly
Problem is the average evolution believer doesn’t have a clue what science really is.


I am a bit of a logical thinker, and I try and approach every subject with that approach. I can't find a single logical statement in the text I've quoted. Lay some scientific proof down on me Mr Raggedyman, doing all you can to look like Raggedy Anne (ha ha sorry was listening to Korn and Limp Bizkit "All in the Family" not 10 mins ago).

Seriously though, many Christians get by fine in a world where evolution theory makes the most logical sense apart from perhaps panspermia...


Creation is not a science, I don’t do science on creation, I am asking for empirical evidence about evolution

I have many Christian friends that believe in evolution.
I can live and get on fine with them, atheists as well, plenty, it’s not a big issue in the real world
I just don’t see the science that proves evolution is a fact



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: richapau

I don’t defend creation, it’s a faith, a belief
I asked for empirical evidence of the science of evolution

Show me the science that proves evolution, you win the argument with empirical evidence

Not moaning at me



Watch some Kent if you want science of creation



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: edmc^2

I will say that if there is a higher power that created us, then that is the answer to your question of why we exist...

We are the current stage of your higher power's science experiment to see how life will evolve on this planet.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: Gojira54

And that’s a reasonable theory
Prove it with empirical evidence and I will accept it

Simple



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

That's my entire point about a creator. It can't be proven, nor disproven. So who cares?

The whole creation/evolution debate is stupid. IF we had a creator, who is to say it didn't set evolution in motion?

I'd rather believe we're a "happy accident". Otherwise we're just the current stage of some evolutionary science experiment by either some kind of invisible man who lives in the sky... or anal probing aliens.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Life is not a problem to solve but a reality to experience.... this is it, and when we die we become the basis for other life, we go back into the system so to say. Why is that a bad thing? Make the most of it because its all the time we absolutely know we have.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

thought you could look at this, these fish are going onto land and living there for periods of time, this is new behavior and they are changing as a whole www.google.com...
also read about a fish developing thick front fins and adopting a new gate of motion by pulling itself along rocks to hunt if i find source i will post.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Gojira54
This whole debate is stupid.

Whether or not there is a "god" or "gods", evolution is a real thing.

IF there is a god (I don't know, nor care if there are any deities.. the way I see it, IF a god or gods exist, we are obviously not supposed to know or understand them. Religions are ALL man made. None have it right... but I digress) then evolution is quite obviously a part of the plan. We share 99% of our genes with chimps! That is proof enough for me (and most people with at least half a brain) that evolution is real.

It doesn't matter if we are a creation, or a happy accident. Belief in a creator(s) should not preclude you from believing in evolution. To do so is to be blinded by your religion's ideology. They're trying to keep you stupid, Stupid!


it does matter whether we're a product of creation or evolution because your ENTIRE world view is shaped by it.

If we're not the product of creation then what's the ultimate purpose of being alive?

We're born, grow and get whatever we get from life, get old then die? that's it?


I think I get it. Death scares the # out of you or maybe you are just afraid there is no great meaning to your existence. Look, if there is something after death then it is all good, I guess, unless it is worse. There is no way to know either way until it is your time and if there is something you will find out if there isn't you won't feel a thing.

If you need to believe in some grand plan to get on with the here and now that is fine. One thing I don't get about your type is why are you all so desperate to get others to think like you. Is your faith dependent on others faith? The second thing I don't get is why do you guys set yourself up for failure. Why do you set your faith in contrast with the observable universe and against verifiable facts? Seems to me you would incorporate them into your worldview then your faith wouldn't be so fragile.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Oh dear. That's all I can think of.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 03:07 AM
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All the creationist community would have to do is provide the methodology for one repeatable test for creationism. If they could, it would be world changing... funders would literally be lining up at the door to fund a viable, repeatable, realistic research agenda, that is an alternative to evolution.

Whole research groups would be set up over night by every major university in the world to research and be at the forefront of an actual repeatable testable hypothesis for creation! Heck, I'd sign up for that!

It would be a major global paradigm shift.

So don't give us that "... the big mean old scientists won't let us play... "... baloney... there are all manner of wealthy religious organizations that would fund something like this, when shown facts and a palpable potential return on investment... (the reason they currently don't fund creation research is Chief Financial Officers are realists!... and will scrutinize the logic of any research plan way more closely than academics, theists, creationists or evolutionists... if there are any fallacies at all... the research will not be funded... period... and based on the whopper creation arguments on this site, it's no surprise there are no creationist research groups currently).

So why hasn't the creation side come up with a testable hypothesis for creation?



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 04:05 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman



My God would get less because He used evolution?
How does that make my God less?


He used evolution? Well that's convenient, but unfortunately science shows zero evidence for the hand of god in any of these processes. You can't keep up that argument, that while science progresses and discovers new things god gets the credit for using it or creating that. That's a very weak argument and does not provide any hard evidence for the existence of that diety.



The amazing thing about people like you is that you think evolution is a fact when nobody has ever recorded an animal changing its own DNA, information being added to dna
How does that happen, God designed it and we can’t understand it


This quote right here is the perfect illustrator of why you don't have a basic understanding of the theory of evolution.
Nobody has ever recorded an animal changing its own dna because that doesn't happen.

Now pay attention and learn something important about evolution. Evolution is a very slow process where small mutations in the dna get preference due to higher changes of survival and therefor reproduction, the actual evolution to another species takes millions of years of very small mutations from one generation to the other.
So random mutations happen, most of those mutations are unbeneficial. But a small amount are actually helping that species because of the environment it find itself in.

I'll give some evidence of this process, and it's very simple and easy to follow and verify.
You know whales right, those big mamals in the sea. They used to be landcreatures, we know that because they still have a tiny part of the bone structure where the legs used to be. Now, for whatever reason the whale needed to move from land to the water, I think it had to do with them getting too big causing problems breathing but I'm not sure. In the water legs are no use and only cause drag. So those whales that by chance mutation had underdeveloped legs were at an advantage. Smaller legs means less drag in the water means less energy required to move around. And over many generations those with that advantage became the dominant variant. That, in a tiny nutshell, is how evolution works.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

I have to agree how they rig the debate with false parameters, the prime example is them dividing Abiogenesis up from macroevolution based on scientific semantics that they enforce to make it so much easier to defend their concept of how life came to be on our planet.
They claim it's science classifications that they alone get to define, watch somebody post something restating the official stance against the total concept that we are suppose to be discussing, it happens every single time like a broken record....we know, you have told us 1000 times.....we just 100% disagree.
edit on 27-6-2019 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

This thread is too funny... all the creationists playing victim because... science.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: edmc^2
> Evidence of evolution had been refuted many times over. The problem is, you can't accept it because it destroys your faith in it.


Then demonstrate it. Why have I never seen this mythical refutation when I have been asking for it on here for more than a decade? Pick any research paper you want and show me where the conclusion has been refuted. Good luck.


> Actually it's evolution that is attacking science by inventing something not supported by facts. As in, mud turning into a living cell by its own volition. As if BLIND CHANCE is the Almighty All-Powerful God.


Another blatant lie.


> "so evolution is still the best explanation backed by evidence." - nope, it's not since blind chance is its foundation. All the evidence that evolutionists had found so far points one thing: Life is complex and has the ability to ADAPT.


Random mutations are proven, dawg. Evolution IS longterm adaptation.


> Name one Creationists publication that's widely accepted in academia - i.e. scientific community. 0 zip nada!


There is no such thing as scientific creationism publications. They don't do science. Show me a single creationist research paper that has experiments and is peer reviewed? Oh wait....

You literally just keep repeating the same lie over and over.


> If so, why then are there no widely recognized Creationists among them that are widely accepted as equals? Is it not because of #6?


Because they don't have any scientific research done. They are not scientists, they are organizations whose main goal is to convert people to Christianity. And as I said, more than half of scientists believe in god or a higher power, so stop the lies. Plenty of theists (namely Christians) are widely accepted as equals despite believing in a god / creator. But they are only accepted when they are REAL scientists, not frauds, phonies and paid shills like James Tour, Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, Stephen Meyer, etc.


> I said, MAJORITY of EVOLUTIONISTS. not many scientists. Do you understand what the word MAJORITY mean? If not get a dictionary.


You are lying. Atheists/agnostics only make up 10% of the population here in the US, yet 60-80% of people polled agree with evolution, including MANY theists who believe in a god that either created or guides evolution. Evolution happening is a fact which is not disputed even by most theists. It's just the extremist fundamentalists like yourself that hold this ridiculous irrational view of science where you (a non expert) cherry picks what science is valid and what is not.

www.pewforum.org...

Your claim that most people who agree with evolution are atheists is flat out wrong. This isn't the 1800s, bro. Most people comprehend science including a large amount of theists (in fact way more theists than atheists).


> Let me be precise: Scientific Academia - as in BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE (since the discussion is evolution). Name one academia that's being supervised a proponent of Creation? 0 zip, nada.


There is no science that supports creation, so why would anyone be a proponent of that. Also as I demonstrated above, there are plenty of them in academia that believe in creation, but they acknowledge evolution as fact because it is. Evolution and creation can both be true, but you refuse to even acknowledge the possibility. Many people think both are true. There are many Christian biologists in academia, look it up. They just aren't insane extremists, they put biases and beliefs aside when doing research as any good scientist would.

edit on 6 27 19 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



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