It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Age UK: 50,000 elderly in England have died waiting for social care package

page: 6
16
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 08:41 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

I am not familiar with the case but, in all honesty, what is to stop him working at a desk job? Nothing says it has to physical labour.....

Obviously, with any system, some people slip through the cracks. Go back 20 years and i know lots of people that cheated the system. Nowadays, very few simply because it isn't so easy - and that benefits all of us as a society as that wasted cash can be put to better use elsewhere.




posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 10:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

Well, he's dead for one, that may present a problem!


The guy was six stone and could not stand up, how would he get to this desk ffs, or anywhere else for that matter?

Maybe he could have worked from his Hospital bed?

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the case before you start coming away with crap like that buddy.
edit on 1-7-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 11:34 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

Why? You post crap all the time at the moment about "evil Tories". Can i not post crap in return? Is your crap somehow better than mine?

And i stick by it, thanks. I am sick and tired of people fleecing the system and then moaning when they get caught out and all benefits stop.

Perhaps this guy really was an error. That would be a tragedy.

On the flip side i rejoice about the 1000's of workshy f wits that no longer get to fleece the system. If that offends you, well i dont really know what to say.

Do you not think all the people fleecing the system (and therefore us the taxpayer) over the years are responsible for the draconian rules now?



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 11:43 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

"I don't care how many innocents suffer so long as not one person fleeces the system"

Is basically what you're saying. Can you get much more sociopathic?



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 11:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Puppylove

People always fall through the cracks. That isnt to say its correct but its just the way it is.

As long as it works for the majority (as it is supposed to do) then i am fine with it.

Again though, why absolve those that have caused this harsher regime in the first place? It is because of them that the rules are far more stringent.

ETA:

I could get far more sociopathic if you wish. For example, i would happily turf families out on to the streets that have fleeced the system for years and give their homes to more deserving families.
edit on 1-7-2019 by Flavian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 11:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

People always fall through the cracks and there will always be people that find ways to cheat the system. What makes your views sociopathic is you place more emphasis on finding ways to catch and punish people who cheat the system than you do on making sure as many people as need the help get it. You care more about punishing the few bad apples than you do about preserving the majority of good apples.

Too many people are too quick to punish the majority for the actions of a minority.



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 12:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Puppylove

You fail to grasp the point that we have the current system precisely because it has been abused so badly over the years.

I personally strongly believe in the welfare state for the worst off in society. Everyone else needs to take responsibilty for their own lives, not rely on the government to bail them out.

Just think for a minute of the thousands in this country that cheat on something as simple as housing, claiming only parent on site when in reality both parents are there, paying into the household. It may only seem like a simple thing but the reality is that it costs us all tens of millions a year - money that could be paying for more Police, nurses or teachers. Or better yet, paying for decent social care.



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 12:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

Every time anyone had ever shown any numbers on this, they've always demonstrated how few and in the minority actual cheats are in comparisson to those who need help. This whole topic is bull# to get people like you to keep your focus away from the politicians, corporations and military industrial complex that are really robbing you blind. The ammount of money your fellow citizens are robbing you of with welfare is a drop in the bucket compared to how the bigger fish are robbing you.

Citizen eating citizen, keep the peasants devouring each other while the elite gleefully reep the benefits. That's the real point. If you really cared about grubby hands in your pocket, then there are much better places you can focus your attention than making sure some schlub doesn't take some of your pocket change while the people telling you about it are robbing your bank account.

Then again as far as I know you might very well be connected to these people profiting from this kind of misdirection.
edit on 7/1/2019 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 12:26 PM
link   
a reply to: Puppylove

Exactly the ones really fleecing the system are the ones who avoid paying their fair share of taxes through all kinds of creative accounting, loopholes , offshore accounts as exposed through the Paradise papers and the number of businesses that trade in the U.K. but don’t pay tax because their headquarters are abroad.

Let’s not forget how much the government and councils waste on various useless projects and lining their own pockets by awarding overpriced contracts.



posted on Jul, 1 2019 @ 04:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

Flavian correct me if I'm wrong but dead people canny work.

Unless of course, it's for the DWP. LoL

What do you want him to be a fecking speedbump?

How about a scarecrow in one of Theresa Mays strong and stable cornfields?


Tories are evil, hence the six stone Man, that could not stand up, they found fit for work!

That Man was not "fleecing the system".

The system, however, was fleecing him, and he's not the only one.

I think austerity is a joke, and not the funny ha'ha type.

Only people i see fleecing the system are the Tory bastard scum in Westminster, and plenty of them with the form to prove it.
edit on 1-7-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 03:50 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake




Only people i see fleecing the system are the Tory bastard scum in Westminster, and plenty of them with the form to prove it.


The Kinnocks, no?



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 05:16 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

Sure, too many people have begun to rely on the benefit system as a lifestyle choice and it needs reform.
But the majority of that has been as a direct result of successive government failings and crap policies - both Labour and Conservative.

And its a bit arse about face to victimise those who may fiddle a few quid here and there whilst ignoring the serial rape of the system by top earners and corporations etc.
If the same effort and resource was directed at tax avoidance and financial impropriety of those at the top I might have sympathy with the targeting of those at the bottom who seek to make just a little bit extra for themselves and their families.
But until that happens.....

As I've said on numerous occasions; Austerity is nothing more than the pursuit of a political ideology and NOT an economic or financial necessity that targets the most vulnerable and needy in society.

Anyway; any excuse for a bit of SLF.



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 06:49 AM
link   
a reply to: oldcarpy

They are all at it oldcarpy, when they are not avoiding taxes or committing mortgage fraud or the like, they are up to some other nefarious shenanigans, with other peoples money.

Fact is most politicians are as bent as a £3 note, on all sides.



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 06:55 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

Yes but you said it was only tory bastard scum doing this?



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 06:58 AM
link   
a reply to: oldcarpy

Well they are in power after all, so the majority of them probably are indeed Tory bastard scum.

After all, is best to be in charge, if you wish to receive the backhanders at dawn, one manky wee mitt washing the other one and all that jazz.


edit on 2-7-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 07:16 AM
link   
a reply to: Freeborn

Always respect your opinion mate but i disagree with you on this in that i fully support austerity. I may be aliberal conservative but i am still a conservative at heart - i do not believe in "big government" and like to keep government involvement out of as many aspects of life as possible. As such, i firmly believe in personal responsibility.

Families struggling? Work more. Or give up the unnecessary Sky tv package - you get the idea.

Welfare should be solely for those that genuinely need it - the homeless, those genuinely too ill to work, etc.

I don't disagree that corporate tax evasion, etc, is abhorrent but you can't deny that the Tory government have put measures in place to scale this type of tax evasion back. It obviously will never stop it as the huge companies involved always have the brightest and best accountancy and legal professionals working for them (as you would expect). They can always work out loopholes.

It is not an exaggeration though to say that the system is milked left, right and centre. Whether it is fraudulent claims on only one parent residing at an address, to sub letting rooms in council properties through to wholesale benefit fraud. When such abuses are in place, it is always going to eventually come down heavy on the system itself, meaning innocent victims are caught up in it.

Why then is that the governments fault? Why do those that create these situations get a free pass? I am not saying where in the UK, but one of my sisters is a senior housing manager at a local authority and she deals with rent arrears (in the thousands) and it is no joke to say she deals with hundreds every year in one local authority. That is people thousands of pounds behind on subsidised housing that claim "difficulties" whilst having several 50 inch flatscreens, several cars on the drive and at least one foreign holiday a year. Role that out around the country and it adds up to tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds.

Why should the likes of you or I be paying for that? When they are prosecuted, you then ad in legal costs, Police call out costs, etc, etc - again adding many many millions on to this bill.

People can argue until they are blue in the face about for this but i know for certain it is fact as i have to hear about it every week from my sister and other senior council memebrs (directors, assistant directors, head of housing, etc).

If we sort this out, the type of (poor) person that Andy was banging on about yesterday actually get the help they need.

It shouldn't be a case of "whataboutism", it should be a case of each and every abuse is prosecuted so that we can actually get a system in place that works as it is supposed to. The only way to do that is to get draconian in punishment, at least in the short term - say if you are caught abusing the system, you don't get any benefits of that system for the next decade.



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 07:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

The old phrase don't hate the players hate the game springs to mind and the game is decidedly rigged in there favor.

For every one of those people, thousands of pounds behind on subsidized housing that claim difficulties whilst having several 50-inch flatscreens, several cars on the drive and at least one foreign holiday a year, there are 50 others living in abject poverty.

And 50-inch flatscreens about £300/£400 quid the now, hardly breaking the bank for a TV now is it, or are poor people not supposed to have nice things?

End of the day the class war is raging, and it not going in the favor of the poor and needy, thats a given.



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 07:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: andy06shake

And 50-inch flatscreens about £300/£400 quid the now, hardly breaking the bank for a TV now is it, or are poor people not supposed to have nice things?



No. If you are behind on your commitments then that is what you have to pay - it isn't up to the rest of society to subsidise what you decide your essentials are. When you catch up, you can pay for whatever you like.

What is the alternative? I need a new mid range car - should i expect the public to pay my mortgage while i get a new car?



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 07:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

But the public nor the DSS pay mortgages of people on benefits, just the interest.

They do however bail out the bankers from time to time.

What if the car is required to take their kids to school?

Its a minefield Flavian where nothing is ever as cut and dry as it seems.

Poverty is no joke for millions of people on a daily basis, they are not all bumping the system, but just trying to stay afloat and alive.

The bastards that take the proverbial urine should be stopped, i agree on that, but probably best to start at the top, with all the tax avoidance, and not the bottom with Jill not declaring her Man lives in her flat.

Coz that's where the real monies are.
edit on 2-7-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2019 @ 09:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Flavian

I understand why people with nothing or very little seek to manipulate and cheat the system to get a few luxuries.
I don't understand why people with a comfortable existence and are quite wealthy by anyone's standards seek to cheat the system and hoard even more.

One is motivated by necessity and possibly maybe envy.
The other is motivated simply by greed and a desire to control.

And sorry mate, I just can't condemn the guy down the road doing a days graft for £50 whilst claiming benefits when MP's fiddle anything and everything they possibly can, industrialists and bankers receive enormous back handers and tax free sums deposited in secret offshore accounts.
Show me a rep or low/middle level manager who doesn't fiddle expenses at any given opportunity?

What is morally obscene is government policies that discard whole groups of people and consign them to the scrap heap.
Or policies that enable large employers to 'employ' people on zero hour contracts or pay them only slightly more than subsistence level wages whilst generating enormous profits for a select few.

Surely one measure of society's well being is how we look after the weak, needy and vulnerable.

Maybe we are asking the wrong questions; why are there so many weak, needy and vulnerable in our society and why do so many see no alternative other than a life within the benefit system.

When looking at things in that light we're not doing that well really are we?




top topics



 
16
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join