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Age UK: 50,000 elderly in England have died waiting for social care package

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posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Bluntone22

The thing is, this is due to 'austerity' cuts in social care which has resulted in the most vulnerable and needy in our society being deliberately targeted.
The simple fact is that if funded and managed correctly this wouldn't happen.

Austerity has been nothing but the pursuit of a political ideology rather than a financial necessity and as a direct result millions have suffered....all whilst the most wealthy in the UK are getting richer and richer.



Personally I think that's it's a bit disingenuous based purely on the information in the OP. Roughly over 500,000 people die in the UK every year - yes, that sounds shocking doesn't it but it's true. It's not a recent trend either - in 1974, the figure was closer to 700,000, and the figures are - as you would expect - highest for those who are aged 60+. Harold Wilson took office for the second time in 1974, was he responsible for old people dying?

The figures in the OP don't have any context apart from the fact social care packages are taking too long - if they are packages to keep people alive, help them with dying or anything in between doesn't seem to be factored into the OP.

www.ons.gov.uk... gleyearofagetables




posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Flavian

How many of those 77 Pensioners live in abject poverty, that canny afford to heat their homes or feed themselves appropriately, or will be forced to have to sell the homes to facilitate the cost there care packages and care homes, and have had their pensions essentially stolen or removed by the government?

Quite a few is my guess.

We treat our old like the crap we step in on a hot day over here.

Fact is it's diabolical, considering its most of the poor old souls that voted Tory in the first place.


www.ons.gov.uk... gleyearofagetables

The figures since 1974 have actually improved year on year. 1974 = Tory and Labour parties in control, no significant change regardless of who is in power.

Would you like to say why the figures point specifically to one party now, but don't count for when another party was in power for a sustained period?

Just interested, denying ignorance and all that.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:36 AM
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People aren't evil, but the people who seek and desire power and are fueled by insatiable greed are. They're a small percent of the population so it's unfair to paint the population with this evil brush. Unfortunately the bulk of people in power are, since the people in power are typically the ones that seek and lust for it. Most people just want to live their lives, they don't seek power, nor are they fuelled by insatiable greed, they just want happy simple lives with their loved ones.

It's a few bad apples ruining the whole bunch scenario. Unfortunately any attempts to reign these bad apples in immediately attacked as the lazy trying to rob the hard working rich people that deserve to live better than the greatest emperors of all time. No matter how much they get, no matter how much less more people have, it's never too much for the elite and the masses never have too little.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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If you depend on the government to save your life, that was your first mistake. Hopefully cases such as these teach people that the gov does not care about them. The government cares about maintaining power, their pay check, their funding.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Agreed. Here we go, evil Tories murdering OAP's, etc, etc.

We really need to address this huge problem which will only ever get huger and playing party politics with this really does not help.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

Austerity has targeted the most needy and vulnerable in our society.
It was not instigated due to financial necessity but rather the pursuit of a political ideology that seeks to return us to some Victorianesque society along with all the injustices and inequalities that went with it.

Yes, we have an ageing population that will become even more and more of a strain on the nations resources....putting less resources into it is not the answer.

Yes, I think I am a bit guilty of party politics....simply because it is The Tory Party that is pursuing this policy with a rabid zeal and seem impervious to the plight of literally millions of our fellow country men and women.

This will only become worse when either of those two sanctimonious, self-aggrandising, pompous, arrogant arseholes who have absolutely zero understanding of the cares, concerns and well being of the majority of the British people become Prime Minister.

And its truly frightening that the only other viable alternative at present is even more unsuitable for high office.

Every single Prime Minister from Thatcher onwards should be charged with criminal incompetence - I know your a lawyer and will say there's no such thing - in their treatment of the NHS.

All this whilst the top earners and elite are making even more and more money - sorry mate but I'm firmly of the belief that a certain amount of levelling of the land and wealth re-distribution needs to occur.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

So, again, the ONS figures show that since the mid 1970's, mortality rates have continued to drop - isn't that the crux of this OP to suggest otherwise? They were higher under Wilson and Callaghan than they are now, under Callaghan there was the 'winter of discontent' - why do you give that Labour government a free pass?

www.jstor.org...



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

That is called massaging the figures, take the Tory's with there current policy on Sanctioning claimant's whom are unfit for work and trying to force the dying even those whom are terminally ill to work to the point in time they are dead on there feet.

You know the old Tory statement about NATURAL WASTAGE OF THE EXCESS POPULATION, excess to whom?, the excess population refers to the poor and needy that can no longer work and the wastage refers to letting them die - not helping them but LETTING them die - walking on by as the man lies in the gutter the opposite of the good Samaritan and the true face of the Tory Party the uncaring greedy self centered and self concerned elite whom fall very far short of the definition of humanity and extremely far short of the definition of Christian's though a lot of them hypocritically insult our lord every time they enter church and many of them even stand behind the pulpit corrupting the word's of the bible and cherry picking it to suit there own agenda's and beliefs (even the top bishop's were pleading with our TORY government not to go ahead with there unethical welfare reform's and were told to butt out of politics by them and the right wing media).

Here is how it work's, you are sick so you are sent to a private company PAID FOR our of tax payer money and owned by friend's or relatives of the Tory's that made this policy and whom are therefore the biggest claimant's of public money themselves not the poor, these unfit poor are then assessed usually by someone with very little medical knowledge whom form's and OPINION of the person then declares them fit for work, the person then has there benefit's stopped, they are not classified as unemployed because they are no longer in receipt of state unemployment or sickness money and so they disappear from the statistic's BECAUSE they have been REMOVED from them.

People living longer is down in part to better childhood medical care that PREVIOUS generations received and that today perhaps the kid's are not getting so much as the generation's before them had.

The difference is the Tory's believe in Small government's so too did NEW LABOUR whom were up the arses of the same money men as the Tory's themselves are and were eating out of the same pig's trough with them, true Labour would NEVER have brought in Hospital trusts - ever see how much those trust managers are paid officially and then how much backhanded money changes hand's so that private health firm's can get there hands' on those lucrative contract's.

I am Afraid the action's of both the TORY's and NEW LABOUR have to be undone and we need our health services back and our A&E department's reopening, we need to go back to subsidizing our industry at time's of international financial crisis in order to safeguard important employers from financial collapse, we need to reinvigorate our production economy and tax the city of London bastards back to the hell they crawled out of (but we have to do it carefully and then VERY fast so that they can not steal the money out of our economy as they always do to avoid paying there rightful dues like the crook's and vagabond they most certainly genuinely are).

edit on 26-6-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Total and absolute rubbish. Your opinion is exactly that, but that's all it is. Again.


You know the old Tory statement about NATURAL WASTAGE OF THE EXCESS POPULATION, excess to whom?


Can I have the citation for that? Otherwise it's just a sad pathetic lie, isn't it?

Absolute nonsense. I'm not politically affiliated, I just prefer fact to opinion dressed up as fact, you should try it.

(Edit to add) How do you massage the numbers, by age, of people who died every year since 1974, as given in the link I provided? Did some of them die years before but for political reasons weren't declared dead until a particular year that was beneficial to one particular political party? Really? You need to get out an awful lot more.
edit on 26-6-2019 by uncommitted because: As per ETA



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Well, the figures point specifically to one party now for the past 10 years or so.

Austerity is a very Tory tool.

Which is why the rich will get richer at the expense of everyone else.

Torys will deny their granny oxygen, never mind ignorance if they think it will line their bank account.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: uncommitted

Well, the figures point specifically to one party now for the past 10 years or so.

Austerity is a very Tory tool.

Which is why the rich will get richer at the expense of everyone else.

Torys will deny their granny oxygen, never mind ignorance if they think it will line their bank account.



Don't be a dick, the figures have lowered in the last ten years, at least if you think you are making a cohesive argument, come out with one that makes sense at least.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

You really are TORY right wing in your views and I have no respect for that at all, were the Tory's themselves are concerned though you do know there is two party's there, the moderate conservatives and the old school boy's network Tory's.
I would suggest you very quickly take your head out of the potty and look at the truth because if anything is rubbish it is your attitude and don't try to bamboozle this trying to portray the opposite side as a group of conceited half whits, this is not the house of common's and we will speak the truth whether you like it or not, did you never study political history in school.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Don't be a dick? LoL

You try telling that to the Tories. LoL

The cohesive argument is, if you are poor, sick, disabled, unemployed, old, then you are a target for the Tories.

The only thing they care about is there own kind.

And Austerity is a decidedly Tory bag of spanners.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: uncommitted

You really are TORY right wing in your views and I have no respect for that at all, were the Tory's themselves are concerned though you do know there is two party's there, the moderate conservatives and the old school boy's network Tory's.
I would suggest you very quickly take your head out of the potty and look at the truth because if anything is rubbish it is your attitude and don't try to bamboozle this trying to portray the opposite side as a group of conceited half whits, this is not the house of common's and we will speak the truth whether you like it or not, did you never study political history in school.



No, stop talking rubbish and give citations otherwise just admit you make things up. Your actual quote matches up to classical socialism in that when the old are no longer fit to work they are no longer fit to be part of society.


You know the old Tory statement about NATURAL WASTAGE OF THE EXCESS POPULATION, excess to whom?



I did actually study political history, that's why I don't waffle and present opinion as fact, it's not really a gift, it's more of a common sense approach.
edit on 26-6-2019 by uncommitted because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-6-2019 by uncommitted because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: uncommitted

Don't be a dick? LoL

You try telling that to the Tories. LoL

The cohesive argument is, if you are poor, sick, disabled, unemployed, old, then you are a target for the Tories.

The only thing they care about is there own kind.

And Austerity is a decidedly Tory bag of spanners.


Are you Blackford in disguise? To live in Scotland and moan about the English NHS is a bit sad and sorry considering you have a whole bucketful of sh!te going on there is a bit sad isn't it?

scottishlabour.org.uk...

But then again, come back to the figures I posted from the ONS, where is the rise in mortality rates under which political party based on the years they were in power? Why don't you quit the Blackford sh!t of dressing up opinion as fact and show...... fact?



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Oh, take the Tory penis out your mouth uncommitted.

Your not making any sense. LoL

Fact is it's a national health service, not an English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh service.

Without Hospitals in England, my brother may not have received a new heart.

Hospitals that he has to attend each month for the rest of his life.

So i think i might have an opinion on the subject, i know he sure does.
edit on 26-6-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

First of all; I don't know where you get this thing about Scots complaining about an 'English' NHS. I've seen no evidence of it in this thread or any other thread here on ATS.
I'm the first one to pull our northern brethren up on things but as far as I can see this is totally unfounded, unless of course you can offer some supportive evidence.

Only a complete imbecile would deny that our NHS is under more and more stress.

But 'austerity' has compounded the problem and is deliberately targeting the most vulnerable and needy in our society.

The NHS both could and should be the shining light in this country and should be something we are all proud of.
Universal health care for all regardless of wealth, race or creed is an admirable thing.
Yes, it should be managed better.
Yes, it should be free of nepotism and cronyism.

But what we have at present is a deliberate under-funding and refusal to address core issues in order to justify privatisation and enable the elite to profit from other peoples illness and misfortune.
That is something that I can not and will not support, ever.

I adhere to no specific politic dogma or party, but what we are witnessing now is an amoral and politically motivated attack on something that should be at the core of this country's very existence.
Conservative's like Churchill, Macmillan were passionate supporters of the NHS....even Thatcher thought it was sacrosanct.

Now we have a political party who are hell bent on running it into the ground in order to justify the privatisation and the emphasis on profit on other peoples misery and is even compounding and contributing to peoples misfortune.

Yes, the NHS needs a radical overhaul and the inherent wastage, nepotism, cronyism and serial mis-management needs eradicating....but privatisation, austerity and putting the interests of pharma companies and suppliers is not the answer and no amount of spin or political rhetoric or dogma will ever convince me otherwise.

Apologies for the rant like nature of this post.


edit on 26/6/19 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: uncommitted

I was and remain rather disgusted at your attitude and would recommend you do particular research in TORY past Members of parliament and the house of Lords through the 1700's up to the 1930's and how they were faced off many time's by the OLD Liberal party whom championed the poor despite themselves often being richer and of higher birth than there Tory's peer's on the opposite benches, this is of course before the rise to prominence of the Labour party which began with the working man finally being given the vote and it's displacement of the Liberal's as the main rival of the Tory's.

During this period the Tory's were responsible for such enlightened policy's as forced Exportation - often for the most minor offence as they needed indentured servants in the colony's and wanted to anglicize them by moving more English speakers into those land's AND OF COURSE the workhouse the main beneficiary of which were mainly the Tory's themselves as the very poor whom they preyed upon and whom were forced to hand themselves over to this forced Labor prison's were then a source of extremely cheap unpaid workers whom would then have to work for the workhouse owner with often only a couple of hours of sleep per night, terrible condition's and literally only for the food they ate and the clothing on there back with entire family segregated, a scourge which only actually ended I remind you in the 1970's when the last workhouse was finally closed and it's resident's moved out into council accommodation.

Now we have the very same ilk of individual's with exactly the same attitude toward the poor, the exact phrase "Let the poor die" and the more polite definition used to justify it "Natural Wastage of the Excess Population" dates back at least to the time of the Irish Potato Famine but was used several time's in the years since, actually it was used in a famous speech and don't argue the modern Tory's are not the same thing because I will argue a leopard can not change it's spot's.

But for the grace of God I myself could very well have been on of those wretched soul's as I am actually a descendant of British Aristocracy myself but since My mother Lady Alice Hallworth-Fegan the soul and rightful heir of the Tattersall's - Lord and Lady Tattersall were her God parent's and Later Lady Elizabeth Tattersall (her fathers blood relative) left everything in trust to her and had my mother not been swindled by some very powerful people indeed she would have made the elite of the Tory's party mostly look like paupers - the fact is though not even knowing about her inheritance until the 1970's (she had a vague knowledge but no idea how large it was *** ) and having been defrauded of it she despite being very physically disabled from the age of three had to scrub the floor's in factory's just to try to provide enough money to raise her children and she struggled something that those Tory's have never had to do themselves - I should dearly love to see whom really own's what they say is there's because more than one of them is actually an impostor as far as there inheritances are concerned.

Former MP for west Lancashire Ken Hind asked my mother how much money she thought her inheritance was and she said she thought about £4 million so he corrected her and said "It is that much money there is NO gentleman above board" and then told her that she was a multi millionairess and had been robbed of her title, land and assets, he never put it to paper though only stating "Wrongfully deprived of two estates" but also told her the following "I am afraid I can not help you any further AND if you try to get anywhere there is somebody in every department whom will put a stop to it".

You do not know me, you have no idea what I have experienced in my life or seen or know and yet you presume to judge me and call me a liar, how dare you just whom the hell do you think YOU are.


*** WE were told by a reporter whom usually did story's on the royal family that a very powerful family had taken my mothers inheritance and he was scared as he had a family to worry about so he was not going to research it any further, a police man that my mother was a LADY with a mansion, and another person in authority that it had been done to my mother because the government had no money at the time and they had to provide a person of importance (that family) with an income so took my mother's trust (to provide that person with an income from my mother's estates).

Now do not think for one moment I do not have equal and indeed more anger against some members or rather former members of the Labour party, one very dirty individual indeed by the name of Derek Hatton admitted to my mother that they had simply taken her land and built upon it (it seemed that an awful lot of people had know about my mother's trust but not one of them had any decency, certainly not the decency to help her), he was later arrested by police whom were investigating investment and land fraud under Operation Cheetah but the charges were later dropped and a young police man a Scottish lad whom had a conscience came from Liverpool (the trust assets are all over the nation including substantial property in Kensington London - the Central and Cecil Housing trust is using My mothers trust fund number though it is there registered charity number we have had that number for decades since a caring member of the IRS provided it to us - to my mothers home in West Lancashire and told her that he was leaving the police force because if he parent's knew the corruption he was having to work with they would go crazy, he told her he was going to join the ambulance service instead and that he had come to clear his conscience and to tell her that the higher up's and told the police to butt out and that they were then only covering up - I think he was also warning my mother to be careful which she was.

edit on 26-6-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Freeborn

Now wait a minute.
America is evil people getting richer.
European countries are supposed to be different.

But seriously, any time a government controls anything they screw it up without fail.


UK is pretty much the same under US false alliance. Why do you think where ever US goes UK follow, same on the other way around. Canada got screwed in the process. 1984 Oceania agenda. All Agendas are done by US and from US. What happened to the time when US used to stay out of British wars?

The only thing that is stopping it from happening are the Hispanics and Canadians. Why do you think Avro industry got busted and force to move down to US?
Just look at the map and you know it is being played. World of 1984

edit on 26-6-2019 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 03:53 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

If the Tories are hell bent on pursuing austerity with such zeal just for the sake of being like some moustache twirling caped Victorian villain can you explain how this sits with their overriding purpose in life which is to make lots of money?

The two are hardly compatible.

Yes to wealth re-distribution as an idea. Unfortunately, I can't see any practical way of making that happen short of going down the failed socialist/Communist route with all the inequalities and injustices that history warns us of.



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