NYTimes reports on conditions in US Immigrant Children Camps and says conditions are really bad

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grimpachi

In 2017

In total, the bill allocates $13.8 billion to customs and border protection. That includes the $1.6 billion for the wall, $100 million to hire 500 more Border Patrol agents, $131 million for new border technology, $106 million for aircraft and sensors and $109 million for "non-intrusive inspection equipment."

It also adds $619.7 million to Immigration and Customs Enforcement over current levels, bringing total funding for ICE to $7 billion.

thehill.com...

In 2018

The massive $1.3 trillion omnibus bill does not include funding for what Trump typically refers to as the "Wall." Instead, the bill includes just under $1.6 billion for increased border security.

www.businessinsider.com...

bipartisanpolicy.org...

Awesome ty. i didn't have the energy to look it up.

a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

It's almost like that was and still is true for some people, but other people just repeat the words because it sounds so cool and brave, even if they actually don't feel it at all...

Reality tells that only a few people actually feel like that, most of the other ones are just using the words for their own benefit

Who knows who's who anymore

The only way to stop this is to end birthright citizenship, chain migration and revise our asylum laws.

These are EASY things that could be voted on by FRIDAY.

This would ACTUALLY stop the children suffering.

But the SLIMEBALL LEFT would put these kids through at such record rates that they, along with the adults, overwhelm our system (happening).

The left WANTS those kids in cages. THEY WANT THEM THERE!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

If we keep letting them in undocumented, then we wont be America much longer. e will go bankrupt at the very least.

I am all in favor of LEGAL immigration. That is how my g-parents got here at the turn of the 20th Century. But unfettered ILLEGAL immigration is simply not sustainable.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

"Think of the children!".
"They're running for their lives!"
"Denying asylum seekers is inhumane!"
"It's not about asylum seekers!"
"Think of the children!"

Make your mind up, plox...

a reply to: xuenchen

Where in that Flores Agreement does it say they must provide soap and toothbrushes ?

We don't need a piece of paper to tell us we should treat others with common decency. Damn dude.

a reply to: gallop

I know that following a thread with multiple people posting multiple replies about a topic with multiple facets, the treatment of the children being held in detention, the status of their parents, the methods of entry and asylum laws, federal law, treaties and agreements, that sometimes it's hard to follow all the replies and how they relate to various thread topics within the thread. But, please try to keep up before offering insults and criticism of those who do.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

If we keep letting them in undocumented, then we wont be America much longer. e will go bankrupt at the very least.

I am all in favor of LEGAL immigration. That is how my g-parents got here at the turn of the 20th Century. But unfettered ILLEGAL immigration is simply not sustainable.

Probably because there was no such thing as illegal immigration when your grandparents came over.

The US had zero immigration laws until 1882, which prevented the immigration of anyone unable to either work, or independently wealthy.
In 1891 an additional immigration law was passed which banned the Chinese.
The next immigration law was passed in 1917, which required that immigrants be literate. But, the test was in any language, so you could still come in without knowing any English at all as long as you were literate in some language.
In 1924 we first created a concept of visas and legal/illegal immigration, which was done in response to keeping out eastern and southern Europeans.

If they came over at the turn of the century, then they were legal only because there was no concept of illegal immigration at the time. So, the migrants crossing the border are doing precisely what your grandparents did.

a reply to: Krakatoa

They must PROVE they are running for their lives.

Yep, they sure must. That's part of the asylum process. Do you think we should deny them the right to prove their status in court, before a judge? Trump wants to eliminate immigration judges.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Those lawyers gave up a piece of themselves in order to be good at that job. I wouldn't be surprised if they won some of those arguments. Or is the case over already? Was there a verdict?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Krakatoa

They must PROVE they are running for their lives.

Yep, they sure must. That's part of the asylum process. Do you think we should deny them the right to prove their status in court, before a judge? Trump wants to eliminate immigration judges.

NO, I do not want to remove due-process. In my proposal, due-process is still intact, it just happens here, electronically (i.e. remote to the application country). This is the 21st Century, so doing things remotely makes more sense than in-person stuff. They could bring them into the embassy, with a teleconference for them to be in front of the judge from the embassy. This is not a high-cost thing to implement by any means.

However, I have not read that aspect about Trump's plan, could you provide a source for that statement so I can read up on it myself?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

If we keep letting them in undocumented, then we wont be America much longer. e will go bankrupt at the very least.

I am all in favor of LEGAL immigration. That is how my g-parents got here at the turn of the 20th Century. But unfettered ILLEGAL immigration is simply not sustainable.

Probably because there was no such thing as illegal immigration when your grandparents came over.

The US had zero immigration laws until 1882, which prevented the immigration of anyone unable to either work, or independently wealthy.
In 1891 an additional immigration law was passed which banned the Chinese.
The next immigration law was passed in 1917, which required that immigrants be literate. But, the test was in any language, so you could still come in without knowing any English at all as long as you were literate in some language.
In 1924 we first created a concept of visas and legal/illegal immigration, which was done in response to keeping out eastern and southern Europeans.

If they came over at the turn of the century, then they were legal only because there was no concept of illegal immigration at the time. So, the migrants crossing the border are doing precisely what your grandparents did.

Yes, there was at the turn of the 20th Century (i.e. 1899-1900+). They legally had to go through Ellis Island (I have copies of the documents and records). I even know the name of the ship they arrived on in NY.


Try again chief.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Krakatoa

Did they come alone? Were the adults with them ACTUALLY their relatives, with their best interest in mind?

How does the answer to that question effect whether or not these children deserve basic human rights, a safe and sanitary place to stay?

I keep thinking the same thing.
Should the first priority be feeding and cleaning up those kids no mater why they are there? If their that dirt and hungry.
They are just kids after all.
Unless america has severally changed from when I was young we don't turn away starving dirty children. Even when we know some are being used for leverage. We don't have to let those using them for leverage win. Feeding and cleaning kids gets them no closer to whatever goal they have.
Taking care of the kids is something we can do while we debate what to do about them and the adults.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Krakatoa

Did they come alone? Were the adults with them ACTUALLY their relatives, with their best interest in mind?

How does the answer to that question effect whether or not these children deserve basic human rights, a safe and sanitary place to stay?

I keep thinking the same thing.
Should the first priority be feeding and cleaning up those kids no mater why they are there? If their that dirt and hungry.
They are just kids after all.
Unless america has severally changed from when I was young we don't turn away starving dirty children. Even when we know some are being used for leverage. We don't have to let those using them for leverage win. Feeding and cleaning kids gets them no closer to whatever goal they have.
Taking care of the kids is something we can do while we debate what to do about them and the adults.

The issue is the quantity over the short period of time. You might be able to cloth and feed 1, 2, heck even 6 or 7 yourself. However, what if 100 are at your door? Then what do you do? We are talking tens of thousands here nationally, and more on the way. the system is being overrun, and why? Is it for political power chess by the parties?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yes obama bad. Go lock him up.

How does any of that information help the kids at the border now?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: mtnshredder

If they turned them away at the border and sent them back where they came from we wouldn’t have this problem now would we?

But that feels so unamerican. Don't you think? I know the patriot in me cringes when people say this.

We need to fix the border issues while at the same time honer the spirit of america and treating these people with more respected as human beings.
We can do this. We're america goddammit!

Do you think the illegals coming here really care about you or this country? Quick answer....no they don't, they couldn't care less as long as they get their free handouts and we give them our jobs. I bet you 99% of these people don't actually qualify for asylum. There not telling us the truth about their situation but bleeding hearts like yourself tend to believe anything their told as long as it agrees with your ideology.

If it makes the patriot in you cringe so much and you think it's so un-American then surely you have sponsored a family or two in your own home so they wouldn't have to deal with this atrocity were putting them through. Yes, you've done that right? Because if not, I think you're a hypocrite and I'm calling BS.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: gallop

Why not setup detention facilities inside the "Sanctuary Cities" since they want to protect them and care for them...even to the extent of ignoring federal immigration laws. That's the solution, have centers created and staffed in Sanctuary cities to make sure these poor children are properly cared for and not living in filth and squalor (while citizens outside the facility there actually do live in filth and squalor).

Another good idea. I would volunteer and help if they did that. Does florida have sanctuary cities?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: gallop

Why not setup detention facilities inside the "Sanctuary Cities" since they want to protect them and care for them...even to the extent of ignoring federal immigration laws. That's the solution, have centers created and staffed in Sanctuary cities to make sure these poor children are properly cared for and not living in filth and squalor (while citizens outside the facility there actually do live in filth and squalor).

Another good idea. I would volunteer and help if they did that. Does florida have sanctuary cities?

If not, and you are so inclined, perhaps you should draft a bill on that exact concept. Contact your congressperson in your district to assist you in the process.

How to Write a Bill for the United States Congress

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Trump administration willingly denying these children, who they took legal custody of, basic human rights

Lets truly get to the facts here. Who makes the decisions involving day to day care in those places? I know trump didn't personally go to the detention centers and say , "You have to treat them this way." And I know the law doesn't say to do it.
There was a chain of command and somewhere in that chain someone decided that basic human needs didn't apply here. Or they were outright negligent.
Who is the person that deals with day to day care?

Don't worry I'm not saying trump is off the hook but I'd like to know who is there seeing this happen and shrugging their shoulders at it every single day.

The idea of trump telling them to take those kids soap away is to mustache twirling movie villain to feel true to me.
Feels more like bureaucracy and that trump doesn't care what happens to them more than that he's personally ordering them to sleep on the ground.