If faith was blind belief, why would it be of such importance?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

Your false beliefs are showing again.
Wanna examine them?

Saying i’m wrong isn’t the same as proving i’m wrong.

Proving isn't the problem.
It's figuring-out how to reach you, to help you see the errors of your false-beliefs.

Which beliefs would those be?

Thanks for your openness.

Although there may be many examples to select, perhaps we could take-up where we left-off to re-start?

We were having an exchange, when it was a very busy time for you, as you were exchanging with several other people.
So unfortunately: our exchange got lost in the busyness of the thread.

Back on page 9: here was our last post in that exchange:

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It can be proven through extrapolation. Based on reasonable expectations.

To which my reply was:

Would that mean that a, say: 95% probability is a fact? Where do we draw the line? Can't see how we could get everyone to agree on a concept such as that: "As of today: 72% probability = 100% probability".

So perhaps we could continue, by examining whether "Extrapolation" is: truth; fact; reality; belief; opinion; interpretation; or other?

Then later look at what "reasonable expectations" might be?
Then after: we could continue by examining your faith-based belief from your claim:

I am certain that the sun will come up tommorrow

(sic)

a reply to: jon777faith in the belief in Jesus to save our Souls at death.

Jon, Jesus saves your soul the moment you believe not at Death.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

a reply to: jon777faith in the belief in Jesus to save our Souls at death.

Jon, Jesus saves your soul the moment you believe not at Death.

Do you figure that babies are born with a belief in Jesus, or, if not, how does it begin?

What's your own experience with the beginning of belief?

Faith is the action taken by an individual that is based on information they received and were left to take action on. In the case of Christian faith the Bible is clear that faith(action) is based on what is heard (information)

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So Faith (action) is based on the word of God (information), resulting in what the Information said would take place. Through faith in the work of Christ on the cross ones belief is activated and results in SALVATION.

Hence, faith is not blind.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

What exactly are you saying again? There is nothing to intellectually analyze in your post. Ofcourse the Bible is written by men, what do you expect? Do you know of any other beings writing books?

You seem to insinuate that because men wrote it it can't be God's word. Why is that?

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You seem to insinuate that because men wrote it it can't be God's word.

There is plenty of evidence that the Bible was written by men, but there is no evidence that the Bible is "God's word". Believing that it is, is blind faith.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

It's obvious it's written by men. I don't know of any other beings writing.

You seem angry, perhaps you are emotionally too involved with the topic of God.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Does, might be true count as belief, because if not, it's impossible for me to be saved. 100% belief and faith in something is not a possibility for me. Best I could ever accomplish is, "Sure he might be real" and that's about it. Expecting people to put one hundred percent faith into something is asking them to quite literally become mentally handicapped.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Faith is the action taken by an individual that is based on information they received and were left to take action on. In the case of Christian faith the Bible is clear that faith(action) is based on what is heard (information)

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So Faith (action) is based on the word of God (information), resulting in what the Information said would take place. Through faith in the work of Christ on the cross ones belief is activated and results in SALVATION.

Hence, faith is not blind.

Do you believe that words can describe the indescribable?

If words cannot describe the Father, then its a folly to search for truth in words of religion. Religion is just a signpost to prayer which is the road to truth. That truth being the Father.

Jesus warned in no uncertain terms that only those that does the will of the Father will enter heaven. That only the act of total submission to the Fathers will, results in salvation. Submission to a higher will than our own (altruism versus egoism).

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

a reply to: glend

God would not use words that would not do as he intended those words to do. We could say the words of men come short in describing God. But God uses the words of men to get across things of him, of his son, Jesus Christ, and what it takes to get saved.

Jesus also said

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

There are enough verses in the Bible that describe the person of the Father, when it comes to his character and attributes, and Jesus even said this, in literally saying he is the embodiment of God the Father

John 14:8-9 saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

And Paul wrote this about Jesus

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The most amazing thing to understand is God did a work to not only justify himself but to justify men when it came to his holiness and righteousness. Because God would not and cannot sin in order to make his will fruitful. God's word tells us that all men are sinners, and in order for him to save man he must do something that will maintain his righteousness. You see the word of God says man would have to live a completely holy and righteous life totally without sin outward and inward. Something no man could do because he is a sinner. So God came in the person of Jesus Christ who did live a life without sin, then according to God's word the need for a sacrifice is need to atone for sin. In this case it was the blood of Jesus that made it possible for men to have forgiveness and be redemption. So God makes it possible for men to receive salvation but that must come by belief of What God said (the information) and then act upon that information through faith on what Jesus did.

All one has to do is exercise faith on what God has done. That is it nothing more nothing less. If that faith is genuine a change of condition of a mans life takes place because the Holy Ghost begins to dwell in them.

Romans 3:22-30 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Thanks ChesterJohn for your answer. I think we can both agree that every second of Jesus life was spent serving the divine will of the Father. Not only was Jesus unselfishness a gift to us, it was also his greatest lesson. That to serve the Father we must denounce our will, our needs, our future desires. Only then will be be ready to immerse ourselves in the Father. To serve his will....

Only he who does the will of My Father in heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven

Does being on ATS serve the will of the Father or my own will. My own self righteous, my own ego. These are questions I ask myself and also lie to myself about.

I share this with you not to say that I am right or wrong, But for you to ponder as I don't have the answer to those questions myself. God bless.

Inspired scripture offers us the knowledge that faith is evidence and in a certain amount can make you move mountains or command a tree to uproot itself and replace itself.

I have not known any man with blind belief able of moving a mountain without technical equipment.

So faith is power.

Claims of faith being blind belief are made by people having nothing to say trying to sound intelligent.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
...
Claims of faith being blind belief are made by people having nothing to say trying to sound intelligent.

I think it's quite rare though in those claiming or implying as such*, that they will actually spell out the term "blind belief" in their line of argumentation. *: that is, I'm thinking about those who imply that all faith/belief is always blind or not based on evidence; you put it in a different way (there are those implying as such regarding both "belief" and "faith" and there are those who imply or claim as such regarding only one of those 2 words, usually "faith", as if there's a major difference; nevertheless, the truth/certainty/reality/fact is that they are synonyms so in reality such way of thinking and arguing is just foolishness). Blind faith/belief does exist and is used by some people, often by those making the argument or implication I just described; also by those who claim to believe or have faith in something based on the evidence, but are actually misinterpreting or intentionally misinterpreting or misrepresenting the evidence, sometimes even sifting the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others, distorting and twisting facts, specializing in lies and half-truths.

They usually argue for it in much more subtle and complex/sophisticated/convoluted* ways. Such as subtly putting a major contrast between believing something, or having faith in something and claiming to know something for certain, or accepting something as the (most) likely case, scenario, description of the situation, description of the truth (or alternate expressions for "accepting").

*: see the list of synonyms in the section "complex: adjective: difficult to understand" (you'll have to scroll down)

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Does, might be true count as belief, ...

Any sort of belief is also an opinion/idea/thought, since those are synonyms. So if you think* something might be true then that counts as a belief. Just like thinking something is (actually) true, although that would then be a slightly different belief/opinion.

*: a synonym for "think" is "believe". Here are some more if interested:

Believe Synonyms, Believe Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

Though perhaps it's also useful to keep in mind that one's beliefs/opinions about something cannot alter of affect the reality/truth of that thing. Of course, it does affect the truth/reality of what it is that one believes. I hope I phrased that last sentence in a somewhat understandable manner. For example, it is a fact/truth/reality/certainty that I believe that God exists. If I were to change my belief to believing that God does not exist, that cannot affect the reality whether or not God exists. It does affect the reality of what my belief is. What people believe about it isn't going to change anything about it itself ("it" still referring to the subject of God's existence in this last sentence sticking to this example).

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Where does this evil come from?

The example set by God.

Seriously though, I think the answer is more philosophical then that.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Where does this evil come from?

From infinite possibilities.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You need faith and courage to climb a mountain. Otherwise you would not be climbing the mountain. It does not matter even if it is just "blind faith"

You need faith to live, if you are drifting nowhere in the middle of vast ocean. Completely lost and hopeless. Otherwise you would have drown yourself.

Faith is important for survival and success. It does not matter whether it is blind or not.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Seems to me that the faithless may also climb mountains, don't drown themselves, and may live long lives.

What 'faith' do you think motivates people that claim to have no faith?

a reply to: Nothin

Faith to do the impossible regardless the odd.

For example climbing the mountain. Would you still want to climb the mountain if you don't believe you could do it? Unless you want to suicide, I don't think any rational people would want to.

It is the same when you are lost and completely alone in the vast ocean with no hope of being found by any ships. After few days you begin to suffer severe dehydration and hallucination.

It is tempting to drink salt water, or jumping into water and get yourself drown. You need to have faith to hold yourself no matter how impossible it seem.

Faith allow people to hope. And hope motivate people to keep surviving regardless the odds.

If you believe you can do it, you will do it. That's faith.

"One problem with Yah Weh, as they used to say in the old christian gnostic texts, is that he forgot he was a metaphor. He thought he was a fact."
- Joseph Campbell