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Bad bad Oregon brown senators on the run from Police

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posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

The rule of law is the Foundation of Society. At what point does civil disobedience, even rebellion become the duty of the citizens to correct abuses by the government?

For example, as vastly unpopular as the law was at the time, would civil disobedience have been warranted? When does that become an appropriate response to take against a government?




posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

I think they (the GOP) are trying to get enough national attention over this issue to force the Governor to sit down and discuss the deal with them. It seems that is the issue here Brown doesn't care how this will effect the state, or even the harm it will cause, only that she is playing to the DNC and their way of thinking. The GOP wanted to place a few changes to the bill in order to lessen the impact it will create to their constituents, but the Governor and the DNC said no (they pointed out that they had the votes to pass it so they weren't going to talk about it).

What else can the GOP do in this case, how do you respond to your constituents when they asked you what did you do about it? No matter how anyone looks at this, it's an ugly situation that sadly highlights why the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is just a bad bad idea. This is what happens when you only allow a few centers of the population to control everyone. Politicians only start to care about what that one area wants, and disregards every other area.
This is what the DNC wants for the nation, and here we get to see that concept at work. I hope people across the nation are seeing this.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
It's always wrong for the minority to try and overrule the majority with trickery IMO.


The American political system isn't a true Democracy, though. Throw in the fact that the Founders established our system of laws specifically to counteract the potential of the majority doing something grossly stupid and unjust by instituting various rights and restrictions on the power of government, and it is clear that the majority isn't supposed to have carte blanche in the US purely because they have the numbers. Aside from that fact, many of the most important laws in the US over the past century have been a direct result of the minority overriding the majority via various tricks and stunts. Had the majority's wishes been all that mattered, we'd never have seen the Civil Rights era lead to civil rights changes, abortion would still be illegal, no US state would have legalized weed without the federal government coming down on them with the force of a thousand suns, taxes wouldn't exist, homosexuality would still be a crime in most jurisdictions, Islam would be illegal in the US, etc, etc, etc.

Also, you're comparing apples to oranges with the Trump issue, at least in my esteem. There is no mechanism on the federal level to manufacture the absence of a quorum. In other words, if one side takes their ball and goes home, the game simply plays on in their absence. That type of passive protest won't yield any fruit in DC. The GOP in Oregon, however, do have that law to fall back on and are proving that a passive protest is a useful tool for them. That said, it is a far, far cry from outright obstruction and false accusations intended to deflect away from conducting mandated federal business that we've seen the DC Dems try to use. Also, if we're going to get real technical, Trump represents the antithesis of the tyranny of the majority. The majority foolishly voted for Clinton, Trump overcame that fact and serves as the president representing the downtrodden and often victimized silent minority. His presidency is living proof of the value of fighting against the majority when they are in the wrong. The majority isn't always wrong, they have often been on the right side of history, but when they're on the wrong side they wallow in it and have always had the potential to royally eff things up... as the majority is trying to do in Oregon, and they deserve to be stopped by any means necessary.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

The rule of law is the Foundation of Society. At what point does civil disobedience, even rebellion become the duty of the citizens to correct abuses by the government?

For example, as vastly unpopular as the law was at the time, would civil disobedience have been warranted? When does that become an appropriate response to take against a government?


There's some debate as to whether Thomas Jefferson precisely said this or not, but the quote "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." comes to mind. Regardless of whether the quote is from Jefferson or not, the simple fact is that the United States was born, as a nation, out of a massive act of civil disobedience and the entire framing documents of the new nation were a testament to the value of the minority over the tyranny of the majority's attempts to pass laws. "It's the will of the majority" has been used far too often to excuse idiocy and outright abuses of civil rights and values too frequently when, in reality, the country's founders called for exactly the opposite (which is why we're a Republic, not a Democracy).



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 05:37 PM
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I know my position on this seems confused and I'm aware of that.

I just don't see how refusing to vote on something, just because they know it's going to pass has any real endgame to it.

The reason I compare it to Dem's trying to deal with an election loss, by trying to take down the President any way they can, is it is the same. Not enough Republicans won, so what do they do, replay this stunt every time a vote does not go their way? Where is the value in that?

I think the real travesty here is that they can be detained. That needs to be drug through the courts as I suspect that won't pass constitutional muster. They most certainly have the right to do it even if it is a bad move IMO.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

I ask again ... At what point would you consider rebellion, by either party or any group in the country, to be a justified step?

Understand, you have to be aware as well as I am and many others are, that we've reached a point where there is very little discourse on issues, only my way or the highway. So what do you do? Understand, they're not being pulled back to the statehouse even to vote, but simply so their presence makes the votes of others legal. Their votes are irrelevant to the process.

And honestly, you could already consider #TheResistance to be a not-so-hidden rebellion against Trump.
edit on 21-6-2019 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:06 PM
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Cap and Trade is a fraud and a scam. The is no tangible good or service provided in exchange for its cost.

"Lawmakers" twist laws, government l, judicial system to promote this fraud. It needs to be exposed and fought at every level. Corrupt government is literally reaching into your pocket and stealing your money with a flimsy excuse of "reducing carbon emmisions". But it is not that, it's a scam market where carbon "credits" are "traded" to those who emit more. So those heavy emitters start "green" projects - probably partly subsidized by your tax money - to offset the cost.

What is the avg person going to do? Turn off their heat in the winter? Ride a bike everwhere in the rain in Oregon? Become more dependent on public transportation riding with all the weirdos, druggies, homeless.

The quality of life for the avg person will go down and they will get NOTHING in return for it.

There should be huge support for those GOP members opposing this fraud.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Strate8

If the average person is smart, they'll vote with their feet and move while they still have their money.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

My biggest fear is that either party would gain complete control.

When would full on rebellion be justified? When we cease to be democratic and one party takes control.

This is a publicity and campaign stunt is it not? Hardly time to take up arms. Meaningless in the end.

Real rebellion would be a civil war, not a group of elected officials hiding out to delay a vote they have already lost.

As I think I mentioned, the correct response would be to convince the voters to give them control next time.

Still, they have the right to do what they are doing as I said. The voters should decide how they feel about it come election time. Sending the law after them is way, way over the top.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:22 PM
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So eleven GOP senators who are supposed to represent their constituents are actually blocking a bill that they believe would be extremely harmful to their constituents and the state. The state needs two GOP reps to show up so they can ram this bill through ...It does not matter if all the reps from the GOP showed up and voted "no" the dems hold the majority and the bill will pass.. Part of the Bill is for a twenty two cent per gallon tax hike on gasoline with provisions to increase the tax as needed... Typical government in your pocket which will never be satisfied with what they can take.
youtu.be...



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

California is a one party state. It looks like Oregon is crossing that threshold.

California has cap and trade, and right now, they've turned it into their slush fund. The only requirement to use those monies is being able to justify them as going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Apparently, when the water tax went down, lawmakers decided to dip into the slush fund to do what the water tax was supposed to fund - overhauling water systems in some communities.

Their "green" justification was that by using the money to fix those systems, it would reduce the greenhouse gases needed to ship in bottled water.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:28 PM
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-a reply to: Strate8

Y:eah , I bounce back between Hawaii and Idaho and I am very very concerned about Idaho, its turning more and more into portland east, and if something isnt done , Idaho is only about one election cycle behind Oregon.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




California has cap and trade, and right now, they've turned it into their slush fund.


Yeah, and they still dont have enough money to take care of the things they need to, its a typical liberal utopia, they tax everything they can, they suck the majority of cash from their residents, and they STILL cant manage to do what they need to do because of mismanagement of funds, making their politicians even more rich, and funding ridiculous programs.

Its like giving a 13 year old a credit card and dropping them off at the mall



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 08:31 PM
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www.oregonlive.com...

SALEM - Senate Republicans have left the Oregon Capitol with no apparent plans to return. Their absence puts into doubt whether Democrats will finish their business during the 2019 legislative session, which has to conclude by June 30. The GOP protest stems from Republicans’ staunch opposition to House Bill 2020, a massive proposal to regulate carbon emissions. A vote on the measure had been scheduled for Thursday. It’s already been a notably productive session for Democrats, who used their new supermajorities to pass their top policy priority — a new multibillion-dollar business tax to raise money for education — as well as other signature policies, such as a new rent control law and juvenile justice reforms. But the walkout threatens the future of dozens of other bills and puts funding for several large state agencies in jeopardy. The list of legislation that would die if Senate Republicans don’t return includes several Democratic priorities, including a bill that would allow undocumented immigrants to get legal driver’s licenses, a bill to modify the state’s death penalty, a bill that would refer an increase in the cigarette tax to voters, and a bill that would allow duplexes in single-family zoned neighborhoods in some cities.
so seems the bills all die if they can avoid being found until june 30th so roughly 9 more days,not the most standard form of civl disobedience but it seems the angle they are going for

www.oregonlive.com... here is a link to the rent control bill they passed which makes some landlord liable for moving cost of tenants they either kick out or deny to renew their lease least in Portland and seems to make it alot harder to evict tenants and gets rid of no cause renewals and caps rent increases at 7.5% a year . my friend who is primarily a land lord in ca was gonna move to oregon but bailed on that plan because of this and it seems some landlords who never raised their rent are now gonna do it just out of spite to the max to each of there tenants just because of them not liking the new law and that is just one of the many bills apparently the missing republicans have issues with ,but a challenge to the law was allready struck down so who knows at this point how long the republicans will stay out of session or if the protest will go anywhere other then just garnering headlines



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: Kindnessandkisses

Ironic since democrats did the same thing several times to Trump when he tried to pass certain bills, and POTUS Trump did not send the police after the demonrats...

More and more do democrats/demonrats/liberals in power show whom they truly are, tyrannical aholes who don't care about people's rights and opinions if those opinions are different from the democrats/demonrats...

Whenever democrats/demonrats/liberals don't want a bill to pass they go on trips even to other countries to not be forced to vote. But when Republicans do it demonrats send their hounds to arrest republicans...



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Guyfriday


Exactly! Does being held at gunpoint (either literally or figuratively) count? This is literally forcing an issue on the people of Oregon. I get it that the people voted these politicians in, but if Oregon is anything like Washington State (which I believe it is) good luck trying to figure out if the votes were legitimately counted.


It is all just political posturing. Gov Brown a decade ago did the same thing as the Republicans held the majority and the Democrats ran to try and prevent redrawing the voting districts. Just makes me laugh how they say it is so wrong when they did exactly the same thing, people are just dumb to not remember past a few week i fear.
edit on 22-6-2019 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 03:01 AM
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originally posted by: Strate8
Liberal infestations have destroyed many of the great places in our country and turned them into cesspools. Drugs, excess taxation, loss of rights, homelessness and crime follow them everywhere they go. Liberal policies turn people into victims which need to be "saved" by government run by the corrupt.


Exactly, EXACTLY, E X A C T L Y that!!!!!!!!! That is their WHOLE freaking agenda. All their policies revolve around that agenda. They live eat, breath and sleep that agenda. It is their political purpose and life's ambition to see that happen. Damn traitors if you ask me.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:36 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko


If the average person is smart, they'll vote with their feet and move while they still have their money.

My God! Why would you wish that on others?

Let's just use Idaho as an example... let's say people who are upset with the situation they allowed to happen move there. Now they'll vote in Idaho elections and add their voice to Idaho politics. Since they are not from Idaho, they will vote like they are from Oregon. Pretty soon there's enough Oregonians in Idaho to literally turn Idaho into Oregon East, and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile back in Oregon, more and more people are becoming desperate, and they leave for Idaho as well, accelerating the process.

In their wake, these people leave behind literal swaths of country that they have turned into a hellhole by trying to escape the hellhole they created in the first place.

But, they will say, I wasn't for bill X and I was outnumbered. That's because you were for bills A-W, which led to X and you being unable to counter it. The problem is not a single law; it is the abandonment of principles for "feelz" that destroys an area and allows these crazy laws to become reality. Hold fast to the principles of freedom and you will continue to enjoy freedom; let them slide, even a little, and you will become a slave to tyranny.

No one destroyed Oregon except Oregonians. Please don't encourage them to destroy more.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

This is like all the people who say Californians are leaving in drove....Yeah, to show up elsewhere and ruin the states they invade with their liberal bull#.

Californians don't know how to be free so they have to show up elsewhere and take freedom away from people.

I wish Californians would fix their own house and stay there.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 01:22 PM
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DemcoRATS must have selective amnesia. Remember their stunt back in 2011?


Wis. Democrats Flee To Prevent Vote On Union Bill



A group of Democratic lawmakers in Wisconsin blocked passage of a sweeping anti-union bill Thursday by ignoring orders to attend a vote. Instead, they left the state to force Republicans to negotiate over the proposal.

www.npr.org...



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