Judgment of God as justice.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Being “born again” is the loss of identity with our egoistic construct. Baptism is symbolism of that event.

"Jews didn’t believe in an afterlife" Are you implying Jesus was not a Jew?

"God does not deal in karma" Stop telling God what not to deal!

"you do not understand Christianity" Unfortunately there are a list of christian denominations as long as your arm that still debate the interpretation of Jesus words. So arguing belief systems ends up with people defending a belief system built on straw. No-one wins,

a reply to: Raggedyman

Jesus loves and forgives unconditionally if He is requested to do so

Not so in Christian theology. The Most High and His Son ,Jesus, do not forgive or love unconditionally. The entire Christian philosophy as well as Judaic philosophy is based upon law. Both Moses and Jesus' doctrines are steeped in punishments and rewards. Jesus has always had conditions for justification [salvation].

Also in respect to judgment: most of what I have read here is confusion between Judgment and opinions or decisions.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Raggedyman

Jesus loves and forgives unconditionally if He is requested to do so

Not so in Christian theology. The Most High and His Son ,Jesus, do not forgive or love unconditionally. The entire Christian philosophy as well as Judaic philosophy is based upon law. Both Moses and Jesus' doctrines are steeped in punishments and rewards. Jesus has always had conditions for justification [salvation].

Also in respect to judgment: most of what I have read here is confusion between Judgment and opinions or decisions.

Oh God bless
Please enlighten me to your Christian theology
I want to be nice but
You pretend you have a concept of theology when clearly you ar ignorant, now ignorance is acceptable but when you make definitive comments like you are not ignorant, pretend you have a capacity to comment
Well it makes you look duller than ignorant, less than ignorant, blatantly stolid

Anyway christian theology or did you say philosophy, somewhat confused, you are saying they are the same?
Are you saying Jews and Christians believe the same thing, realllly?
Reallllyyyyy

I expect nothing better than, hope for so much more
I would love to explain why your assumption is so ignorant but truth, you are happy in your ignorance, but please, don’t glorify yourself in your own ignorance, don’t pretend you know what you are talking about, don’t think you know or can comment on christian theology when it’s blatantly obvious you learned it off tv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Woodcarver

That's just blind ignorance and it comes in all types, even secular/atheist. You know that. Even the Bible says the rain falls on everyone. It is what it is.

Science is really good at explaining how things are the way they are, but not so good at the philosophical whys.

blind ignorance is believing in something that there is no reason to believe in. Case in point, everybody who believes in a theory of god that you disagree with.

There are lots of things in this world that people believe in that there is no good reason to believe in.

Science calls them theories because they cannot yet be proved to be true, only supposed as true. And science has its dogmas just like any religion. Look at how much men of science mocked those who came up with a new theory because they were busy clinging to their various dogmas (old theories). Most things science holds as accepted and true today had to fight hard to be accepted: tectonic theory, germ theory, theory of evolution, etc.

All of them were mocked when first proposed, and not necessarily by religious folks, but by men of science.

Science is constantly shifting and changing and expanding what we know. This is a good thing. I like science a lot, but just in my lifetime alone dinosaurs went from giant, stupid lizards who needed to live in swamps to support their weight or else they'd die and the primeval world was all swampy to the dynamic creatures who may or may not have actually sported feathers we know today. There was no KT boundary when I was kid. The dinosaurs just died out. Now we think we know otherwise although even today, they are starting to question whether or not Chixalhaub (sp) could have caused all the dinosaurs to die out like they've thought now for 20 some years.

That means to put all your faith in science to explain everything for you and guide you, your life is built in shifting sand. What's true for you today might be revealed to be a giant mistake tomorrow. We don't actually know half of what we think we do, and that's not a problem, but it's also not a strong foundation to build a moral life, either.

It is exciting if all you're using it for is guiding your knowledge and understanding of how the world around you works.

a reply to: ketsuko

And that's just that.

Never confuse science with religion.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh God bless Please enlighten me to your Christian theology I want to be nice but You pretend you have a concept of theology when clearly you ar ignorant, now ignorance is acceptable but when you make definitive comments like you are not ignorant, pretend you have a capacity to comment Well it makes you look duller than ignorant, less than ignorant, blatantly stolid Anyway christian theology or did you say philosophy, somewhat confused, you are saying they are the same? Are you saying Jews and Christians believe the same thing, realllly? Reallllyyyyy

I realize your difficulty in understanding. "He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool. Shun him.'

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Woodcarver

That's just blind ignorance and it comes in all types, even secular/atheist. You know that. Even the Bible says the rain falls on everyone. It is what it is.

Science is really good at explaining how things are the way they are, but not so good at the philosophical whys.

blind ignorance is believing in something that there is no reason to believe in. Case in point, everybody who believes in a theory of god that you disagree with.

There are lots of things in this world that people believe in that there is no good reason to believe in.

Science calls them theories because they cannot yet be proved to be true, only supposed as true. And science has its dogmas just like any religion. Look at how much men of science mocked those who came up with a new theory because they were busy clinging to their various dogmas (old theories). Most things science holds as accepted and true today had to fight hard to be accepted: tectonic theory, germ theory, theory of evolution, etc.

All of them were mocked when first proposed, and not necessarily by religious folks, but by men of science.

Science is constantly shifting and changing and expanding what we know. This is a good thing. I like science a lot, but just in my lifetime alone dinosaurs went from giant, stupid lizards who needed to live in swamps to support their weight or else they'd die and the primeval world was all swampy to the dynamic creatures who may or may not have actually sported feathers we know today. There was no KT boundary when I was kid. The dinosaurs just died out. Now we think we know otherwise although even today, they are starting to question whether or not Chixalhaub (sp) could have caused all the dinosaurs to die out like they've thought now for 20 some years.

That means to put all your faith in science to explain everything for you and guide you, your life is built in shifting sand. What's true for you today might be revealed to be a giant mistake tomorrow. We don't actually know half of what we think we do, and that's not a problem, but it's also not a strong foundation to build a moral life, either.

It is exciting if all you're using it for is guiding your knowledge and understanding of how the world around you works.

That is not what science considers a theory. Scientific theories require actual onservations and physical evidence by definition.

I’m not sure if i can facepalm myself hard enough to indicate the futility of explaining to you how the rest of this post is extremely nonsensical. But i’m sure you will choose all of the wrong points in your rebuttal.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance

This is not a thread about how God doesn't exist or any other weird ideas about God in that manner.

What do you think about letting the judgment of God being our justice? Would that mean we surrender completely to God making no judgment whatsoever? I think that when we don't condemn or judge we leave room for God to judge or take vengeance.

As a Christian you are meant to Forgive your enemies etc, and let God Judge.

a reply to: Woodcarver

and so you bite the dust woodcarver

ketsuko is quite right in his observations, deeming them nonsensical tends to lean to ignorance about science and its history. No, science hasn't always been perfect. There's been a lot of adjustments. Grinding that axe on religion doesn't turn out to work out that well all of the time. It's time to go back to the lab now and repeat your experiments.

1Cor 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

What one needs to know is Everyone judges and only God is the righteous judge.

When he judges he is just in doing so because there is none who can bring him into judgement, because there is none more righteous than he to do so.

Job 40:6-13 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

As Paul taught in Romans if a mans unrighteousness or sin commends his righteousness of God then he would be unjust in judging those who sin.

Ro 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

Id men were to forego making any kind of judgment during this Age and try to "let it be in the hands of God". What will result will be rampant social chaos.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Acts of an angel of death or vengeance, Fallen, or the Big Guy or just irony in general, are no different then the idea of Satan an Lucifer being a general, or gods first born in a sense...Islam would agree here...

I've heard that the main problem with irony, is that it doesn't really solve anything or come with any solutions. "Judge not or ye be judged", "I am a jealous god" " Icarus flew to close to the sun" Purse cometh before the Fall",or "Karma's a B****".

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: FyreByrd



Your worldview and your philosophy can be subjective but any description of reality should only include objective facts.

Read what I said. My beliefs are based on subjective experience and I believe there is a 'spiritual' or 'non-measureable' component to "reality" but I don't try to prove it to anyone else. I do look for verifiable evidence for 'so-called' reality and do expect it from other 'rational' actors.

What I don't understand are those to 'insist' their 'beliefs' about supra-natural topics are the only "true" reality without any objective support. And it doesn't matter how many people 'believe' like you do, it's still a subjective proof only.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Woodcarver

"Define “going against god”

Being primarily a Buddhist I see sin as karma. Hell as reincarnation. Christianity used guilt (original sin) and fear (hell) to try defeat egoism. I try use words that relate to all religions.

But God has different meanings to different people, Personally I see God as it relates to me. And that is my seat of consciousness, If I allow my brain to continually keep my seat of consciousness in the past and future (thus lost in egoistic thoughts of the mind) I am rejecting living in the now, The very nature of turning my seat of consciousness to the now is altruistic, being one with nature, being one with God [insert your own defintion].

So by my definition anyone can be with God regardless if they religious or not.

Keep studying. I recommend "The Road Home" by Ethan Nitchern a modern American Buddhist teacher.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

God judges the soul. Man is responsible for judging the actions according to the law, the law being God's law.

Jaden

Two questions...

1) define 'the soul'?

2) how do you know what 'god's law' is?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: FyreByrd

"However, there is no objective standard to prove any such supernatural being. "

The observer effect in quantum mechanics tells us that experiential results can change depending on whether or not we choose to measure properties of particles (to know), Question is, what makes the decision to change the results. The universe or us. Either way it does point to 'supra-natural' component to existence. And that definition is what some people define as God.

The man in the sky God that was given to the uneducated masses was something for them to relate too. Its highly likely that our minds have the capacity to conceive the qualities of such a Creator (as given in Genesis). So we can only assume from our experiences with supra-natural who or what God means to us at a personal level.

Everything else (spiritual path etc) is noise.

Again study more. Observation collapses 'probabilities' into one measurement at the time of observation. It is in no way defined by 'intention', human or divine.

Oh, and it has nothing to do with quantum entanglement or 'spooky action' at a difference.

Read better books...

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

1Cor 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

What one needs to know is Everyone judges and only God is the righteous judge.

When he judges he is just in doing so because there is none who can bring him into judgement, because there is none more righteous than he to do so.

Job 40:6-13 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

As Paul taught in Romans if a mans unrighteousness or sin commends his righteousness of God then he would be unjust in judging those who sin.

Ro 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

Id men were to forego making any kind of judgment during this Age and try to "let it be in the hands of God". What will result will be rampant social chaos.

You quote Job. A book about a 'god' that places a bet on how much torture a man can take and still 'love his god' - sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

a reply to: FyreByrd

I don't think any life is without suffering.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: FyreByrd

I don't think any life is without suffering.

I'll rephrase that - all life has pain, suffering is optional.

a reply to: Woodcarver

The way you are responding to my post make it clear you do not seem open to knowing/experiencing what I speak of.

For those who have interest and want to know more:
Research Synchronicity, Quantum entanglement, Telepathy.