Judgment of God as justice.

This is not a thread about how God doesn't exist or any other weird ideas about God in that manner.

What do you think about letting the judgment of God being our justice? Would that mean we surrender completely to God making no judgment whatsoever? I think that when we don't condemn or judge we leave room for God to judge or take vengeance.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

What do you think about letting the judgment of God being our justice? Would that mean we surrender completely to God making no judgment whatsoever?

How would that work? Just let everything be? Forget medicine and just let disease do what it will? Forget saving flood and disaster victims, it was God's justice?

Murder and mayhem? No worries, that's just God doing justice stuff.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Ofcourse not. Be a good human.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

We make judgments all the time. It's how we live our lives. If we didn't judge, then we could not live our lives in a moral way. How else do you walk right in sound way?

To steal or not to steal? To be nice or to be nasty?

Further, we also have to sometimes judge for others. The most obvious example is parenting. Children do not come into the world knowing how to be perfect little human beings. They need guidance in how to behave and act in polite society. In short, their parents have to make judgments for them and teach them how to make judgments in their behavior on a daily basis.

When a kid sits down with a mega bag of candy, the wise parent judges when he or she has had enough instead of leaving that up to the child. When faced with a toddler and a busy parking lot, the wise parent takes the toddler in hand and chooses how the lot is to be navigates and does not let the child decide for him or herself how it should be done. All of this involved making judgments for another person. And that extends to making moral judgments. And along the way, one hopes the wise parent is teaching the child how to make those wise judgments so they'll be ready to step out on their own someday.

Moving into the Biblical side of things, not judging is about not condemning others to hell or telling them they're heaven bound. No one knows. The only one who does is the one in the Judgment seat, and that's none of us.

We are, however, perfectly capable of recognizing sin when we see it, and we are enjoined to call it out. We all know the wages of sin is death, so we call it out when we see it in the hopes that others will repent of it. The reason why we do not condemn anyone to hell following calling out sin is that no one except God knows the condition of another's heart. Anyone may repent of their sins. The thief on the cross with Christ repented at the very end of it all and was saved. And since we cannot read the heart of another, that final judgment is not ours to make or know for all that we can see and recognize sin.

a reply to: ketsuko
I think the opening post would work if it meant not making judgements independently, but aligning our own discernments with God's judgement.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ketsuko
I think the opening post would work if it meant not making judgements independently, but aligning our own discernments with God's judgement.

Ah, I get so used to the concept of just judgment in general being wrong. Don't judge! Don't judge. You know ...

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Ofcourse not. Be a good human.

But.. we need a bible to tell us how, right?

And yes though.. God doesn't exist.. don't deny the facts in favor of your feels.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Of course God doesn’t exist. That is the very reason you need to exclude that line of inquiry. Nature happens all around us. Nature is not random in anyway. Air currents flip and form devastating storms. No need to invoke a deity for that.

Bacteria and viruses evolve quickly to adapt better ways of infiltrating bodies that they can set up in and colonize so they can reproduce and spread again. No god needed to explain how sickness spreads.

People who think that this is all the will of god are literally blind to the fact that we can actually understand the world around us.

We can study the weather and the climate to predict what will happen in the future. (I know, i know, but we are getting better at it, right?) christians are still seen regularly blaming storms on gods wrath against gays. It’s time to shut them up.

We can study and understand the the human body and progression of illness and even genetic disorders so well now, that most every person who falls ill can get better with modern treatment and medicine. Religious people are seen regularly ignoring science in lieu of prayer and bible verses. This is anethema to the current and future well being of the human race. Nobody wants to go back to the dark ages when skeptics were silenced and killed for pointing out dangerous ideas like this thread. “Let god sort it out” is no longer a sane point of view.

Would that mean we surrender completely to God making no judgment whatsoever?

My take on this in its simplest form is this - the point of judgement is against all egotistical selfish desires that bombard our pysche from our ego-brain. Whereas the seat of our consciousness is God. So if we side with GOD and not the demands of our ego brain, we cannot be judged,

Early Christianity believed in reincarnation, I suspect judgement into hell might really be considered reincarnation (disguised as hell for good reason). This adapts well with eastern mythology concerning karma. If we continue to desire things we will reincarnate until we realise that all desires are empty of real everlasting joy,

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out. (Rev 3:12 AV)

a reply to: Woodcarver

That's just blind ignorance and it comes in all types, even secular/atheist. You know that. Even the Bible says the rain falls on everyone. It is what it is.

Science is really good at explaining how things are the way they are, but not so good at the philosophical whys.

a reply to: glend

Actually, yes, you do surrender to God in walking with Him. That is what you are aiming for, but no one is perfect at it. Sin is going against God.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Woodcarver

That's just blind ignorance and it comes in all types, even secular/atheist. You know that. Even the Bible says the rain falls on everyone. It is what it is.

Science is really good at explaining how things are the way they are, but not so good at the philosophical whys.

The bible says it rains? Is that how you know it rains?

Philosophical whys are subjective. They depend on your culture. The bible is no more an answer to philosophical whys than the Bhagavad Gita. Both of which exclude science in their entirety. You cannot answer physical whys without proper understanding of the world which ONLY comes from the actual study and observation of the world. The bible is a collection of stories written when people’s understanding of the physical world was practically nill. I’m not surprised they come up with groundbreaking theories like “it rains on everybody“ That seems impossibly difficult to miss actually, but nobody should accept anything simply because it is in the bible. You should put those ideas to modern standards of reason.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Of course God doesn’t exist.

Perhaps not the magical sky daddy you're thinking of. What does judgment have to do with illness? The world around us is observed and nature is bound by laws. What's your point? It's not our knowledge of the world around us that controls that world. The world is simply observed and seemingly acts in ways that can be categorized. You seem to deny the existence of God simply because of your observation of the world.

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Ofcourse not. Be a good human.

But.. we need a bible to tell us how, right?

Maybe you really do.

Well perhaps you should start off by defining what you mean by God? Whatever definition you come up with and you going to be subjective because you have no way of determining if this hypothetical being even exists

a reply to: Woodcarver

a reply to: Woodcarver

Or if It doesn't.

a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: Woodcarver
That's just blind ignorance and it comes in all types, even secular/atheist. You know that. Even the Bible says the rain falls on everyone. It is what it is.

Up until I was 18, I was as agnostic as woodcarver. So understand his stance very well. He is realist that wants undeniable proof of spirituality before accepting it's even possible. Words written in books from people long ago isn't scientific proof of anything.

So I don't see woodcarver as ignorant or wrong. The question "can science discover God" may one day be answered. Einstein's spooky action at a distance suggests that everything is connected. There is proof that consciousness and quantum mechanics are somehow linked. These avenues will be explored further by science. They may one day realise that the author of all scientific equations is God (or not).

So its a different path, We cannot say its the wrong path. We can only accept his ridicule by acknowledging that God has made different paths for each one of us.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

What do you think about letting the judgment of God being our justice?

Usually when that's tried it ends up being the judgement of people who claim to speak for God.

a reply to: underwerks

Sorry, I don't understand.