Trying to resolve 9/11

This issue comes down to actual physical replication of these collapses, with real models. Nothing else matters here.

It's beyond any doubt that NOBODY CAN EVER REPLICATE IT, and proves your claim is absolute nonsense. It doesn't matter if you will ever accept that fact, or not. That's up to you, nobody else.

originally posted by: turbonium1
This issue comes down to actual physical replication of these collapses, with real models. Nothing else matters here.

It's beyond any doubt that NOBODY CAN EVER REPLICATE IT, and proves your claim is absolute nonsense. It doesn't matter if you will ever accept that fact, or not. That's up to you, nobody else.

You don’t have to replicate the collapse of each twin tower. It’s on video. With videos from multiple angles.

Again...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

A CD can initiate anywhere in a building

Not if the area of collapse initiation was decimated by jet impacts and fire that would have obliterated any wiring and detonators.

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical laws,

False.

One. There is a reason fIre code requires steel to be insulated against fire

As shown by the The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.

The jet impacts would have removed insulation.

It was known the WTC had deficient fire insulation

“FIREPROOFING” AT THE WTC TOWERS

www.fireengineering.com...

Then there are other high rise buildings collapses with fires as the root cause.

Language
Watch
Edit
The Plasco Building (Persian: ساختمان پلاسکو‎, romanized: Sâxtmâne Plâskô) was a 17-story high-rise landmark building in Tehran, the capital city of Iran. At the time of its construction in the 1960s it was the tallest building in Iran[1] and was considered an iconic part of the Tehran skyline.[2] The building collapsed on 19 January 2017 during a high-rise fire.[3]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Brazil fire: São Paulo building collapses in huge blaze

www.bbc.com...

Then in a building at the WTC that did not totally collapse, there was fire related failures of the structure that lead to floor systems collapse.




————-

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical law

It’s right there in video.


Now answer the question:

Is the below false.

The video evidence clearly shows collapse started in this manner.

“In the case of 2 WTC, the eastern face finally buckled, transferring its loads back to the failing core through the hat truss and initiating the collapse. Later, the south wall of 1 WTC buckled in the same way, and with similar consequences.[27]

en.m.wikipedia.org... “

Is that false.

a reply to: neutronflux
Well there you go..... it's all resolved because it is on Wikipedia......it must be true!!

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The actual context of the post.

It’s right there in video.


Now answer the question:

Is the below false.

The video evidence clearly shows collapse started in this manner.

“In the case of 2 WTC, the eastern face finally buckled, transferring its loads back to the failing core through the hat truss and initiating the collapse. Later, the south wall of 1 WTC buckled in the same way, and with similar consequences.[27]

en.m.wikipedia.org... “

Is that false.
————


With back context.

originally posted by: turbonium1

This issue comes down to actual physical replication of these collapses, with real models. Nothing else matters here.

It's beyond any doubt that NOBODY CAN EVER REPLICATE IT, and proves your claim is absolute nonsense. It doesn't matter if you will ever accept that fact, or not. That's up to you, nobody else.

You don’t have to replicate the collapse of each twin tower. It’s on video. With videos from multiple angles.

Again...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

A CD can initiate anywhere in a building

Not if the area of collapse initiation was decimated by jet impacts and fire that would have obliterated any wiring and detonators.

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical laws,

False.

One. There is a reason fIre code requires steel to be insulated against fire

As shown by the The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.

The jet impacts would have removed insulation.

It was known the WTC had deficient fire insulation

“FIREPROOFING” AT THE WTC TOWERS

www.fireengineering.com...

Then there are other high rise buildings collapses with fires as the root cause.

Language
Watch
Edit
The Plasco Building (Persian: ساختمان پلاسکو‎, romanized: Sâxtmâne Plâskô) was a 17-story high-rise landmark building in Tehran, the capital city of Iran. At the time of its construction in the 1960s it was the tallest building in Iran[1] and was considered an iconic part of the Tehran skyline.[2] The building collapsed on 19 January 2017 during a high-rise fire.[3]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Brazil fire: São Paulo building collapses in huge blaze

www.bbc.com...

Then in a building at the WTC that did not totally collapse, there was fire related failures of the structure that lead to floor systems collapse.




————-

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical law

It’s right there in video.


Now answer the question:

Is the below false.

The video evidence clearly shows collapse started in this manner.

“In the case of 2 WTC, the eastern face finally buckled, transferring its loads back to the failing core through the hat truss and initiating the collapse. Later, the south wall of 1 WTC buckled in the same way, and with similar consequences.[27]

en.m.wikipedia.org... “

Is that false.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You have something on topic and factual to add. Or just trolling?

a reply to: GBP/JPY
How do you KNOW that your religion is not simply another means to control you and that "Satan" is not simply a metaphor representing the truth? In Plato's Cratylus Socrates says this about "demons":

"And therefore I have the most entire conviction that he (Hesiod) called them demons, because they were
daemones (knowing or wise), and in our older Attic dialect the word itself occurs. Now he and other
poets say truly, that when a good man dies he has honour and a mighty portion among the dead, and
becomes a demon; which is a name given to him signifying wisdom."

If this statement is taken seriously, then "driving out demons" means driving out the knowing and wise. Even the name "Judas" could be understood as being derived from the Hebrew word "yada" which means "to know".

If you are Christian, think about how ridiculous the literal Christ story is. A "son" sacrificed to his "father" but who was also part of that father so that he could not be counted as a god himself. In a sense, the sacrifice seems to be akin to God cutting off his hand and then reattaching it. However, the notion that "the Word was God" makes far more sense.

Do you think Mormonism is true? If not, then you have a clear example of a religion created with the express purpose of gaining control over others. Where did Joseph Smith and his co-conspirators get this idea? But this does not mean the Freemasonry and other secretive groups are any better. They are all working together to make sure that no one escapes their nets. (They are fishers of men when they are not acting as shepherds of sheep.)

You will certainly wonder how I KNOW this is true. It is very simple. It is hidden in plain sight. They are employing an ancient allegoric code that hides all of this and I have cracked enough of this code to expose these truths. In other words, I have made myself a pair of "sunglasses". If people would only take the time to thoroughly crack this code, guessing and speculation would no longer be required; everyone would KNOW.

originally posted by: neutronflux
You don’t have to replicate the collapse of each twin tower. It’s on video. With videos from multiple angles.


Not if the area of collapse initiation was decimated by jet impacts and fire that would have obliterated any wiring and detonators.

The evidence shows they were NOT real planes, first of all. But that's another matter.

Assuming they WERE real planes does not make any difference to being unable to replicate such a collapse, that's the point here.

Trying to argue that a CD cannot happen if a jet hits the structure somewhere, is nonsense.

a reply to: turbonium1

Your one of those.


Well. Good thing the video and physical evidence show large commercial jets hit the twin towers. Not “planes”.

a reply to: turbonium1

Now to what you will not answer and change the subject from.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: turbonium1
This issue comes down to actual physical replication of these collapses, with real models. Nothing else matters here.

It's beyond any doubt that NOBODY CAN EVER REPLICATE IT, and proves your claim is absolute nonsense. It doesn't matter if you will ever accept that fact, or not. That's up to you, nobody else.

You don’t have to replicate the collapse of each twin tower. It’s on video. With videos from multiple angles.

Again...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

A CD can initiate anywhere in a building

Not if the area of collapse initiation was decimated by jet impacts and fire that would have obliterated any wiring and detonators.

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical laws,

False.

One. There is a reason fIre code requires steel to be insulated against fire

As shown by the The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.

The jet impacts would have removed insulation.

It was known the WTC had deficient fire insulation

“FIREPROOFING” AT THE WTC TOWERS

www.fireengineering.com...

Then there are other high rise buildings collapses with fires as the root cause.

Language
Watch
Edit
The Plasco Building (Persian: ساختمان پلاسکو‎, romanized: Sâxtmâne Plâskô) was a 17-story high-rise landmark building in Tehran, the capital city of Iran. At the time of its construction in the 1960s it was the tallest building in Iran[1] and was considered an iconic part of the Tehran skyline.[2] The building collapsed on 19 January 2017 during a high-rise fire.[3]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Brazil fire: São Paulo building collapses in huge blaze

www.bbc.com...

Then in a building at the WTC that did not totally collapse, there was fire related failures of the structure that lead to floor systems collapse.




————-

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

But of course, you believe it can collapse within seconds from local fire and damage, which defies all physical law

It’s right there in video.


Now answer the question:

Is the below false.

The video evidence clearly shows collapse started in this manner.

“In the case of 2 WTC, the eastern face finally buckled, transferring its loads back to the failing core through the hat truss and initiating the collapse. Later, the south wall of 1 WTC buckled in the same way, and with similar consequences.[27]

en.m.wikipedia.org... “

Is that false.

a reply to: neutronflux

Why do you think Richard Gage is lying when he has a valid scientific reason for the iron micro spheres and you do not? Do you realize you are the one lying through omission by not addressing this evidence?

a reply to: neutronflux
You keep posting the same posts over and over.
Is this false?

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

Why do you think Richard Gage is lying when he has a valid scientific reason for the iron micro spheres and you do not? Do you realize you are the one lying through omission by not addressing this evidence?

Let’s see....

You:

originally posted by: kwakakev

Exactly how in you Thermite fantasy did the supposed charges interact with the twin towers. How many charges, doing what, and where.

I don't know. The Israeli Art Students make for one suspect. Look like lots of chargers from all those boxes.

9/11 Conspiracy – The Israeli Art Students

Whoever was in charge of security at the WTC would be a good one to talk to. The elevator rejuvenation project in the lead up to 9/11 also make a good suspect. They had the access to all the internal structures of the building.

____________
Iron microsphere formation is not exclusive to thermite. Is that false.
____________
You belief in trying to spin thermite fantasy as reality using lies. Such as the example above.
________

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kwakakev

This has been covered and explained / debunked repeatedly.

Theses guys did a art project.


Those boxes that you have no proof of what’s in them.



That have none of these symbols to indicate any type of pyrotechnics



With no marking to indicate any type of explosives/pyrotechnic properties

Which would never have been stored in such a matter.

The product code on the boxes are for theses



Do you have anymore blatant truth movement lies?

__________
Thermite burns too slow and inconsistent to be used in a sophisticated split second timed top down CD

___________
Thermite burns slow enough the vertical columns under load would press the molten column cuts together to make cold weld joints.

_______________
Each thermite cut would still need kicker charges to misalign the columns to cause collapse. The truth movement fantasy literal would require hundreds of charges. If not around a thousand charges for each tower.

_______________
The fact the twin towers did not collapse because of a floor to floor top down CD of the cores. The cores were the last to collapse. The cores were not the cause of the downward collapse wave. The core columns tumbled outward in long lengths after being stripped of the floor system providing lateral support. Long lengths of core columns stood whole seconds before tumbling, after the complete collapse of the floor system.




Again...

www.skeptic.com...

3WHAT ABOUT THE ALMOST FREE-FALL COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS? The key is the “almost” modifier. If I told you I was making almost $100,000 and you found out I was making only $67,000, you’d say I was exaggerating. So stop exaggerating the collapse speed of the WTC Towers! The 80,000 tons of structural steel slowed down the collapses of the Twin Towers to about ⅔ (two-thirds) of free-fall.3 And the core collapsed at about 40% of free-fall speed, coming down last.4 According to Richard Gage: “To bring a building symmetrically down, what we have to do is remove the core columns.” But on 9/11 the stronger core columns came down last, which violates this supposed most fundamental rule of controlled demolition.

________________
The way the floor connections were sheared or stripped shows being hit from the straight downward force of the collapsing floors system still connected to vertical columns.

app.aws.org...

Analysis of the connections supporting the composite floor system of the WTC towers showed that at and below the im- pact floors, the greater majority (above 90%) of the floor truss connections were either bent downward or completely re- moved from the exterior column. This was probably related to the overloading of the floors below the impact region after col- lapse initiation. Depending upon weld joint geometry, detachment of the main load-bearing seats was a result of either fracture in the heat affected zone of the base material (standoff plate detached from spandrel) or through the weld metal (seat angle detached from standoff plate). Failure in both cases was assumed to be a result of a shear mechanism as a result of overloading from floors above impacting those below. There did not appear to be a significant change in distribution of failure modes of the floor truss connections when comparing those connections inside vs. outside of the impact region or those ex- posed to pre-collapse fires and those that were not.

____________
The WTC injured and recovered remains shows no signs of being worked on by explosives. No demolitions shrapnel recovered from the injured, and not recovered with the human remains. Yet over 19,000 fragments of human remains recovered by searching through the debris. Human remains show no sign of being worked on by 3000 degree Fahrenheit burning thermite.

___________
There is no evidence in the video, audio, photographic, seismic record of explosions with the force to cut steel columns.

___________
The fact the bases of the core columns had to be cut from the WTC foundation.
___________
The fact the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 initiated at the areas of the jet impacts, and the biggest fires. Making it literal impossible for any controlled demolition systems wiring, electronics, remote detonators, detonators to survive to initiate collapse as recorded on video for each twin tower in multiple videoed angles and prospectives. Literally killing the truth movement fantasy DOA.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
You keep posting the same posts over and over.
Is this false?

You have nothing to refute those posts. Is that false. Because the same truth movement lies are used over and over.

It is interesting how you do not address what Richard has claimed and still nothing on the source of the iron micro spheres from you.

You have some arguments that I disagree with, like claiming the core is standing when it is a shot from one of the outer corners of the building. As for the room full of boxes, it is a lead for one source of the explosives. I don't know, Richard does not either, but finds the claims interesting. You want to say there is nothing there while posting photos of guys in skirts just looks silly. I do not find your conclusions as a through investigation.

Over all it looks like you are more interested in finding doubt than the facts,

a reply to: kwakakev

You

It is interesting how you do not address what Richard has claimed and still nothing on the source of the iron micro spheres from you.

I have repeatedly addressed this. It’s been addressed by whole online communities.

Now answer the question.

Iron microsphere formation is not exclusive to thermite. Is that false.

Can you burn Iron on a Wood Fire? (9/11 related)

m.youtube.com...

Making Iron Microspheres - Grinding, Impacts, Welding, Burning

www.metabunk.org...

Hello. What do not understand about, “ The fact the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 initiated at the areas of the jet impacts, and the biggest fires. Making it literal impossible for any controlled demolition systems wiring, electronics, remote detonators, detonators to survive to initiate collapse as recorded on video for each twin tower in multiple videoed angles and prospectives. Literally killing the truth movement fantasy DOA.”


Sum up.

Micro iron spheres not exclusive to thermite.

No evidence the core cut.

No evidence of temperatures at which thermite burns.

The core fell last and fell over in long lengths. The core columns where not cut.

The floor connections clear shown to be sheared or bent down. Not cut.

—————

A system of pyrotechnic charges would not have survived the jet impact and fires to initiate the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 as clearly seen by the video, audio, seismic record.

There is zero of anything structural being cut, let alone by thermite.

All evidence points to structural failures from being overloaded, sheared, misaligned, distorted from being overloaded.

Iron micro spheres are created by numerous other processes than thermite.

RICHARD GAGE’S ARGUMENT IS USELESS AND OUT OF CONTEXT WITH THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE EVENTS OF WTC 1 and WTC 2.

a reply to: neutronflux

I have repeatedly addressed this. It’s been addressed by whole online communities.

There is a lot of agreement with what Richard has to say. All you have repeatedly said is he is a charlatan as you deny evidence like the Firemen seeing flowing molten metal in the wreckage.

Iron microsphere formation is not exclusive to thermite. Is that false.

No. But but do not exist in the usual office fire.

RICHARD GAGE’S ARGUMENT IS USELESS AND OUT OF CONTEXT WITH THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE EVENTS OF WTC 1 and WTC 2.

I am not surprised you are angry by this, I would be too with so many conflicts that don't add up.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

I have repeatedly addressed this. It’s been addressed by whole online communities.

There is a lot of agreement with what Richard has to say. All you have repeatedly said is he is a charlatan as you deny evidence like the Firemen seeing flowing molten metal in the wreckage.

Iron microsphere formation is not exclusive to thermite. Is that false.

No. But but do not exist in the usual office fire.

RICHARD GAGE’S ARGUMENT IS USELESS AND OUT OF CONTEXT WITH THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE EVENTS OF WTC 1 and WTC 2.

I am not surprised you are angry by this, I would be too with so many conflicts that don't add up.

Sign. You post has nothing to do with what I posted.

start with this..

A system of pyrotechnic charges would not have survived the jet impact and fires to initiate the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 as clearly seen by the video, audio, seismic record.

The truth movement fantasy of CD is dead on arrival. You get it.

a reply to: kwakakev

Next.

Now answer the question.

Iron microsphere formation is not exclusive to thermite. Is that false.

Can you burn Iron on a Wood Fire? (9/11 related)

m.youtube.com...

Making Iron Microspheres - Grinding, Impacts, Welding, Burning

www.metabunk.org...

Get it.

Double post.

a reply to: neutronflux

The truth movement fantasy of CD is dead on arrival. You get it.

I get that you believe in the official story of 9/11. I even get that you do not want to face to possibility of an inside job. What I don't get is why are you still trying to resolve 9/11 if you are comfortable with this position.

With all your research, if you cannot see WCT7 fell through standard controlled demolition techniques, I guess you never will.