Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Either way all we know is the sprinklers seemly did not work on 9/11.

The fire alarm argument is moot anyway. Look up and quote why the fire water system was compromised in the first place. As in why there was no water supply.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Exactly so sir, this is what i was trying to portray with

North, North-East, North-West

As a possible approach. Naysayers still ignoring the Z-axis by focusing only at X and Y.
AA11 Flight Path Study and UA175 Flight Path Study (Just reference).

a reply to: Hulseyreport

W R O N G !!!!!!

Having familiarity with sprinklers, Neutron is right …….

Sprinklers are activated by heat, not the fire alarm

The heat melts a solder plug (old type) or breaks glass bulb (newer type) . This releases the water to the head, which in
theory controls the fire or extinguishes it

When the sprinkler activate it then triggers the fire alarm to signal the fire department

At WTC 7 the collapse of WTC 1/2 destroyed the water mains . WTC 7 had a storage tank on site, but when the tank was emptied was no more water

In fact one of the first things done at a commercial building fire alarm is to detail engine companies to tie in the external connections on the building and feed water to the sprinklers/standpipes to fight the fire

Deluge fire operation is what i suppose was adopted at WTC7 and conceivably the towers, but still trying to locate the info online.
You both are wrong. Watch this video for an example of a fire alarm/heat sensor on the ceiling, setting off the water sprinklers.


Lot of commercial buildings use this fire system to switch on the sprinklers.
Either way, we know the water sprinklers did not activate and NIST said there was water in the tanks. So the fire alert system/and water sprinklers both failed.
They're trying to claim the entire building had no water when everything flows through pipes underground for me is more
debunker nonsense. What about the backup water supply tanks?

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: Hulseyreport

Exactly so sir, this is what i was trying to portray with

North, North-East, North-West

As a possible approach. Naysayers still ignoring the Z-axis by focusing only at X and Y.
AA11 Flight Path Study and UA175 Flight Path Study (Just reference).

Yes any airplane can hit WTC7 from the air. It takes a bit of moving the plane into position by the pilot but it not inconceivable like others are insisting on here.

Just a suspicion WTC7 was a target. 
We recognize for a fact flight 23 was going to be commandeered from JFK airport. All the proofs are there in the reporting 4 men on the plane- middle eastern- got angry when the plane never took off passengers noticed it. Later Al Qaeda materials found in the baggage. FBI declined to comment to ABC news about it!  Use you brain. 

a reply to: Hulseyreport

I am not arguing there are deluge fire systems. I worked with a dry deluge sprinkler system for outside use. A flapper valve in a hot box was keep shut by air pressure in an up steam sprinkler header. The fire would melt a plug in a sprinkler, the air pressure would bleed off, the flapper valve would open to flood the sprinkler header with water. Thus how the pipes didn’t free in winter, but still supplied water if there was a fire.

What is being said is the WTC 7 sprinkler system was melting plug actuated, not alarm actuated. Do you have any proof otherwise. I bet if you look up New Work fire code for inhabited office spaces, the code dictates melting plug actuated sprinkler Systems. Not alarm actuated sprinkler systems. The melting plug is more dependable, less needed PM’s, each sprinkler head is redundant, cheaper, driven by decades of use, you don’t have to worry about loss of power/signal.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

www.vfpfire.com...

Deluge systems are used in places that are considered high hazard areas such as power plants, aircraft hangars and chemical storage or processing facilities. Deluge systems are needed where high velocity suppression is necessary to prevent fire spread.

Deluge Fire Sprinkler Systems differ from conventional Fire Sprinkler Systems in the sense that all nozzles employed in the system are open and when water is released into the system it flows from all discharge devices. As such, this special type of system is generally found within industrial type hazards that require the application of water over a large hazard or area.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Do you know what you mean when you refer to an “automated fire system”?

Sprinkler System Types
Wet pipe systems. Wet pipe sprinkler systems are the most common type of fire sprinkler systems. They’re reliable because they are simple, composed of only automatic sprinklers and, usually, an automatic alarm check valve. An automatic water supply provides water under pressure to the system piping. All of the piping is filled with water. And, when the automatic sprinkler is exposed to sufficient heat, the heat-sensitive element (glass bulb or fusible link) releases, allowing water to flow from that sprinkler.

www.buildings.com...

If the heat of a fire melts or bursts something to actuate a sprinkler, it’s automatic or automated.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And are you referring to deluge valves? Or a deluge system where the fire sprinklers are all open so a single valve can supply all ready open sprinklers to flood an entire floor or structure with a single valve actuation. A deluge system is not required for an office space and makes no sense to use in an office building. A deluge system is used for fuel storage for example.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

3 D representation of World Trade Center Complex

postalmuseum.typepad.com...


A plane traveling at 500 mph (850 feet/sec), literally faster than a bullet, means cover distance of about 3 football fields a SECOND

Not much time to line up approach, especially if have buildings in way

Only possible approach was north, even then gave some buildings partially blocking that avenue of approach

But the conspiracy fools are constantly chirping about how the hijackers were such lousy pilots

Cant have it both ways …………..

a reply to: firerescue

A plane traveling at 500 mph (850 feet/sec), literally faster than a bullet, means cover distance of about 3 football fields a SECOND

And how fast might have AA11 or UA175, flown with control descent(observe time and altitude delta)

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: firerescue

A plane traveling at 500 mph (850 feet/sec), literally faster than a bullet, means cover distance of about 3 football fields a SECOND

And how fast might have AA11 or UA175, flown with control descent(observe time and altitude delta)

More perspective

When completed in 1973, the South Tower became the second tallest building in the world at 1,362 feet (415 m). Its rooftop observation deck was 1,362 ft (415 m) high and its indoor observation deck was 1,310 ft (400 m) high.[97] Each tower stood over 1,350 feet (410 m) high, and occupied about 1 acre (4,000 m2) of the total 16 acres (65,000 m2) of the site's land. During a press conference in 1973, Yamasaki was asked, "Why two 110-story buildings? Why not one 220-story building?" His tongue-in-cheek response was: "I didn't want to lose the human scale."[99]

The south tower’s observation deck stood 1362 feet. That is over 700 feet taller that the 610 foot height of WTC 7. The hijackers aimed for the two tallest buildings in New York that each had an acre footprint which literal could be seen miles away.

Notice a pattern from the hijackers targets? The pentagon is the second largest building in the Unites States by floor area. WTC 1 was once the worlds tallest building when it was completed. WTC 1 and WTC 2 were the largest buildings In New York. The pentagon, WTC 1 and WTC 2 were/is easily identified from the air at great distances with clear avenues of approach.

a reply to: democracydemo

Now. How did WTC 7 fit the pattern for hijacker targets?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Everything about the WTC sprinkler systems

Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
Fire Suppression Systems
nvlpubs.nist.gov...

Care to quote what WTC fire suppression systems were “supervised by the fire alarm systems”?

Care to quote what WTC 7 fire suppression systems were “supervised by the fire alarm systems” vs sprinklers that automatically actuated by heat by fusible link or glass bulb?

As I pointed out already we learn from NIST the fire alarms were disconnected somehow on 9/11! 
There was an off-site monitoring- see the quote again.



So for some extraordinary reason the fire alarm record signals suddenly ceased after WTC2 collapse, which make no sense since the reported fires on eastside occurred after 1pm and off- site location should have a record of the fires where ever they are happening inside the building!
It's also suspicious they set the fire alarm in testing condition during the week leading up to 9/11.  Which means anyone undertaking work inside the building would not set off the fire alarm by accident- on 9/11 it seems on test condition also early in the morning and seemly according to NIST reset after 2 pm but no fire history signals are documented. Which is very unusual if the offline site is automatically recording all fire alarm signals!
There literally no reason to perform tests every day and time for a fire alarm system. So the fact they did it for days and days leading up to 9/11 suggests an inside job was ongoing to subvert the fire alert system. 
NIST claims there were different sprinklers in all three buildings. But they declare it was mainly a wet water pipe system which would be more in line with your claim!

Pre-action is a type of deluge water sprinkler system with a detection device fire connection.


Wet water system doesn't often use an alarm in the ceiling to set off the sprinklers, yet sometimes there is a detection device (heat) that sends a signal for the valves to open. 
The only reason the wet water pipe system would not work is the tanks are dry or the fire never got hot enough inside the room to? 

neutronflux
Do you know the conspiracy?
Truthers allege three buildings were controlled demolition on 9/11!
Two of the buildings were hit by two planes.
We perceive from the info- flight 23 was taking off from JFK airport in New York and reasonable to assume was on its way to impact a target in New York.
Speculate was WTC7 the next target?
Is it fascinating for me you don't find it suspicious 4 hijackers just got off the plane and departed and never caught?. Even though everyone who witnessed the events that day claimed they were terrorists and Al Qeada materials was found in the plane baggage!
Are you not interested in knowing why there was no manhunt for these 4 men? How did they leave the country when all airfields were shut down across the country? The 4 men purchased tickets for the plane? There so much wrong with the official narrative and doesn't help the debunkers will just ignore issues about 9/11.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You were implying the activation of the majority of the WTC 7 fire sprinklers were dependent on fire alarms. Is that false. I believe the statement that the “activation of the majority of the WTC 7 fire sprinklers were dependent on fire alarms” is a lie.

Can you prove the majority of the WTC 7 sprinklers were not activated by the heat of fires through fusible links or glass bulbs. Can you state which WTC 7 sprinkler systems were ”supervised by fire alarms” if any?

So you created a lie to try to put your on twist in the truth movement fabricated mythology? Or can you prove otherwise?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Ok. And WTC 7 doesn’t fit the profile of pattern of selected targets.

Again

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Hulseyreport

3 D representation of World Trade Center Complex

postalmuseum.typepad.com...


A plane traveling at 500 mph (850 feet/sec), literally faster than a bullet, means cover distance of about 3 football fields a SECOND

Not much time to line up approach, especially if have buildings in way

Only possible approach was north, even then gave some buildings partially blocking that avenue of approach

But the conspiracy fools are constantly chirping about how the hijackers were such lousy pilots

Cant have it both ways …………..

Again...


The south tower’s observation deck stood 1362 feet. That is over 700 feet taller that the 610 foot height of WTC 7. The hijackers aimed for the two tallest buildings in New York that each had an acre footprint which literal could be seen miles away.

Notice a pattern from the hijackers targets? The pentagon is the second largest building in the Unites States by floor area. WTC 1 was once the worlds tallest building when it was completed. WTC 1 and WTC 2 were the largest buildings In New York. The pentagon, WTC 1 and WTC 2 were/is easily identified from the air at great distances with clear avenues of approach.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

As I pointed out already we learn from NIST the fire alarms were disconnected somehow on 9/11!

Fire Alarms are often taken offline for maintenance in building ……...

One of the problems have is construction people operating in building setting off the alarms

Anything from electrical work, welding/burning , cutting sheetrock (which creates lot of dust) tripping alarms

a reply to: Hulseyreport

What facts tell you "23" was on its way to New York? Which airline did 'flight 23' belong to?