Historically so cool even your enemies sing your praises...

I am a big history buff... mainly military history and there is one trope/motif/whatever that I just find intensely fascinating..


The times when the main or only historical source we have for a person or group is that person/group’s mortal enemies and yet they still have to admit... “now those were some bad MF’s..”

For example..

1) Sparta - every thing we know about them came from Athenians.. and Athens was sparta’s arch-enemy..

Still they would freely admit their military was just unbelievably better than theirs...

2) Coa Coa - the romance of the three kingdoms was written by a later descendant of Coa coa’s arch enemy.. but he was such s brilliant commander and politician it shines right through the propaganda of his enemies..


3) John Brown - literally the most hated man in the south during his incarceration, but if you read the accounts of those who watched him walk to the gallows like it was nothing special ... they just oozes with awe..

No one there has ever seen a man knowingly walk to his death with more calm and fortitude..

4) Hannibal - was only recorded by romeans, freely admit he beat them like red headed step kids for decades and only lost due to politics..



What other examples can y’all think of..

a reply to: JustJohnny

I'd like to play along but................how am I supposed to know the opponents opinion. I guess I could "google" on it.

So............I did!

And now.........my entry is "George Washington"!
See:
www.reuters.com...

George Washington voted Britain's greatest enemy commander

Of course..........that doesn't tell me what Washington's contemporary counterparts thought of him. I'll just keep looking.

Asked and answered!
foreignpolicy.com...

George Washington, in particular, was widely admired, with even hostile papers depicting the general as “a man of sense and great integrity,” in the words of Edinburgh’s Scots Magazine. Americans, wrote Thomas Pownall, a former British governor of Massachusetts and friend of Benjamin Franklin, in a widely read pamphlet from 1783, were the New World’s “chosen people.”

Patton - WWII.. IIRC the Germans were pretty scared of him and were really impressed with his ability to command. IDK how much was propaganda but I remember stories about him.

On the other side of the coin, I think Rommel was pretty highly respected for his military prowess - again, IDk what is propaganda or how much is hollywood needing to lionize a Nazi general to have a big-bad military general as an enemy.


Charlemagne

Charles Martel

William Wallace

Napoleon - Maybe not feared personally (his height is mis-identified today - he was actually not short for the time-period - he is just short in comparison to modern people) but militarily he was.

Sun Tzu

You'll likely never hear anyone call Ghengis Khan a pussy.

I would!! Right to his face behind this keyboard!! And with him being dead a really long time, but yeah I would!!a reply to: Homefree

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
Patton - WWII.. IIRC the Germans were pretty scared of him and were really impressed with his ability to command. IDK how much was propaganda but I remember stories about him.

On the other side of the coin, I think Rommel was pretty highly respected for his military prowess - again, IDk what is propaganda or how much is hollywood needing to lionize a Nazi general to have a big-bad military general as an enemy.


Charlemagne

Charles Martel

William Wallace

Napoleon - Maybe not feared personally (his height is mis-identified today - he was actually not short for the time-period - he is just short in comparison to modern people) but militarily he was.

Sun Tzu

Erwin Rommel was very much respected, even by the Allies.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
Patton - WWII.. IIRC the Germans were pretty scared of him and were really impressed with his ability to command. IDK how much was propaganda but I remember stories about him.

On the other side of the coin, I think Rommel was pretty highly respected for his military prowess - again, IDk what is propaganda or how much is hollywood needing to lionize a Nazi general to have a big-bad military general as an enemy.


Charlemagne

Charles Martel

William Wallace

Napoleon - Maybe not feared personally (his height is mis-identified today - he was actually not short for the time-period - he is just short in comparison to modern people) but militarily he was.

Sun Tzu

Erwin Rommel was very much respected, even by the Allies.

I thought so, and I did mean by the Allies, not just the Germans. I wondered if he had been hyped up by Hollywood to make for a more dramatic story, you know like making an "evil genius" in Bond movies. I think that (his status) is why he took the route he did at the end of the war b/c he had been so respected and his "out" was similar to the way the Japanese maintain honor.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
Patton - WWII.. IIRC the Germans were pretty scared of him and were really impressed with his ability to command. IDK how much was propaganda but I remember stories about him.

Perhaps the Germans admired him, but my father-in-law, US Army Captain in WWII (later a Colonel), told me his men despised him. In fact, he had an encounter with him when Patton walked up and told him to "get his artillery" off the landing craft!" (During D-Day) Only problem was they didn't have any trucks. He said Patton "had no business" telling him what to do under the circumstances and was not the general in charge of his army. --Just a little anecdote that will probably never be told again.

a reply to: TonyS

If you go so far back the only source we have is their arch-enemy it’s way easier lol..

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Excellent point on Patton and would apply to Rommel as well..

a reply to: schuyler

Not at all uncommon..

Stonewall jackson’s Soldiers hated him ... Nathan Forrest, the same..

The last emperer of Byzantium, Constantine the XI... some historians say he was cut from the same cloth as Ceaser.


Even though he came along when it was to late to do anything to save the empire he fought and lead his people well including the final defense of constantinople, instead of running away to europe he stood with his badly outnumbered troops and fought to the end.


Legend has it when they realized the city was lost he charged the breach in the wall to go down fighting, legend also says the sultan recovered his body and buried him with full honors.


Legend also says there were a few hundered highlanders from a small island in the med that retreated to a defense tower outside the docks and held it for another 3 days allowing people to escape the doomed city.till the sultan himself rode up under flag of parlay and said you can take your wounded and dead, and keep your weapons but please just leave.