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Scholar: Archaeology rebuffs effort to erase biblical Israel

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posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

The Jews did not steal the story no more than the Sumerians did, I believe the source came from the immediate post deluvian world, and was passed down from generation to generation.

[edit on 6-8-2007 by edsinger]


Ok, two boats two superhumans, two prophets. Pray your prophets and let other prays theirs'.

How come Jews missed out the other superhero Gilgamish? Bible is not that complete, is it?

If Sumerians were thieves, then so did Jews in this case.
If Jews did not steal, then Sumerians didn't steal from your Noah either.

To steal something and wrote it in a book and sell it to followers as it is a HOLY book, what do we call that?



Well, call it coincidence if you'd like. 2 prophets in 2 different worlds experiencing 2 different floods. And I think it is not hard for a kid to understand who copied who. Plagiarism is the right word? Kids will easily know who plagiated who. Unless the church control the world education and wipe out Sumerian history from school, internet. Try that! to keep your faith and religion last longer.





posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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You just don't get it do you? The Flood was a story that was passed down through ALL mankind (those left after the flood). They tell the same story so the Jews no more stole it than did the Sumerians. You really hate the Jews don't you?

Hint, Noah was not a Jew.......Abram was Sumerian, who is to say the Abram passed the story on down.

Whose tale is the most accurate? I dunno, but you have to get past this

"The Jews stole the story" crap. It would make one wonder considering that the Sumerian tale of creation differs greatly with the Hebrew one....



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
1...You just don't get it do you? The Flood was a story that was passed down through ALL mankind (those left after the flood). They tell the same story so the Jews no more stole it than did the Sumerians. You really hate the Jews don't you?

2...Hint, Noah was not a Jew.......Abram was Sumerian, who is to say the Abram passed the story on down.

3...Whose tale is the most accurate? I dunno, but you have to get past this

4..."The Jews stole the story" crap. It would make one wonder considering that the Sumerian tale of creation differs greatly with the Hebrew one....


1. No, the story was NOT passed down from my ancestors to me, not to Japanese, not to Chinese, not to so many other ethnics. Though they found similar story in Greek, Indian and several places.

The story WAS passed down by Catholic/Christians/a.k. Jews missionaries during European colonization around the world. Since it is one of the most exciting story from bible, missionaries like to use the story to propaganda Catholic/Christianity. Hey, kids like it, I still like the story.


The lies went on well for 2,000 years. Though many scholars have found similar stories from other part of the world, but the discovery didn't spread well. Nobody want to listen to scholars because people were so blinded by churches.

But NOW, the world has changed, we have internet.


2. Alright, Noah wasn't Jews, and Jews believe in Noah who was not Jews. In Bible it was said Noah was descendant of Adam which was not Jews, and Adam was created by a so called God which was not Jews either. Great find.

As far as I know, Abram was a Semite not Sumerians. Everybody agree Jews came from Semite.


Ok, back to Noah wasn't Jews. Whatever Noah was we don't know, we now know Noah was NOT a Jews.
The so called God promised land Israel was promised to descendant of Abram or to descendant of Adam? Tell me, you are the expert.

- If the land was promised to Adam ( who was not Jews ), then WHY Jews claimed it? They tried to double-steal?
- If the land was promised to Abram ( who was Semite ), WHY the non-Jews GOD promised a land to Jews? The god must be crazy.

3. Nobody knows whose tale is the most accurate. It has many versions, and all could be wrong. In the meantime, let's accept the oldest with evidence to be the original version apart of its' accuracy and truth.

4. If you don't like the world STOLE, then let's make it PLAGIARISM!, inspired from ( not original ), copied from with Rights or No Rights, hi-jack, piracy, and more.



Since you don't know which version is the most accuracy, and you can't prove the truth. Please, don't propaganda that bible is the only truth and blamed atheist for never giving up. Atheists are just trying to give you the truth you can't handle to wake you up.
Don't spread something you not sure of, don't teach your children about uncertain truth. Who am I to tell you what to do?
You have your own right, others have their own right also. You have your right to do your religion thing while others have their rights also.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Cibai Alright, Noah wasn't Jews, and Jews believe in Noah who was not Jews. In Bible it was said Noah was descendant of Adam which was not Jews, and Adam was created by a so called God which was not Jews either. Great find.


What? Noah and Adam preceded the Jewish People...



Originally posted by CibaiAs far as I know, Abram was a Semite not Sumerians. Everybody agree Jews came from Semite.



Well considering Arabs are semitic people also, you make no sense. In the Bible Abram (later called Abraham) was from Ur in Caldea (Sumer).



Originally posted by CibaiOk, back to Noah wasn't Jews. Whatever Noah was we don't know, we now know Noah was NOT a Jews.
The so called God promised land Israel was promised to descendant of Abram or to descendant of Adam? Tell me, you are the expert.


Yes Noah was not a Jew, for Jew didnt exist in his day.



Originally posted by Cibai- If the land was promised to Adam ( who was not Jews ), then WHY Jews claimed it? They tried to double-steal?


The Land was promised to Abraham. It was a covenent from God.



Originally posted by Cibai- If the land was promised to Abram ( who was Semite ), WHY the non-Jews GOD promised a land to Jews? The god must be crazy.



Oh your very funny and your wisdom abounds, obviously you havent actually read the Bible.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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Alright Abram was from Sumeria, he told the flood story.
So actually the flood story was from Sumerian, wasn't it? the flood story WAS NOT belong to Jews.
And Noah was not Jews, Adam was not Jews, the God was not Jews either.
How funny the god promised the land to Jews. The God must be crazy, well Jews' god, what can I say.

Since the flood story in bible was from Sumeria, and there is also a flood story directly from Sumerians, so they were actually 2 different floods happening in Sumeria?
Or was it Jews stole Sumerians?

Ok, in Bible it says the LAND WAS PROMISED TO ABRAM, and Abram was a semite, Arab is also a semite.
WHY DON'T YOU SHARE ISRAEL with Arab? You are trying to steal the land from Arab? steal again?

1st. Jews stole the story to fit their own agenda
2nd. Jews stole the land from Arab who is also a semite

Double Steal

Tell me more about bible which I don't read because it was written with lies to fool people, cheat and steal.



Ok, it is summarised. Jews are worshipping a non-Jews God, Jews are having Sumerian prophets, and other non-Jews prophets.
Those statement was made based on your words.

What a shame



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Cibai
Alright Abram was from Sumeria, he told the flood story.
So actually the flood story was from Sumerian, wasn't it? the flood story WAS NOT belong to Jews.
And Noah was not Jews, Adam was not Jews, the God was not Jews either.
How funny the god promised the land to Jews. The God must be crazy, well Jews' god, what can I say.


I guess your command of the English language needs some help. The Flood story PREDATED Sumer. The flood happened BEFORE there was a Sumer.



Originally posted by Cibai
Since the flood story in bible was from Sumeria, and there is also a flood story directly from Sumerians, so they were actually 2 different floods happening in Sumeria?Or was it Jews stole Sumerians?



Well since the Flood happened before Sumer existed, I guess they stole it from someone then also. No 2 floods, just one.



Originally posted by Cibai
Ok, in Bible it says the LAND WAS PROMISED TO ABRAM, and Abram was a semite, Arab is also a semite.
WHY DON'T YOU SHARE ISRAEL with Arab? You are trying to steal the land from Arab? steal again?



Well again you haven't read it have you, he promised the land to the descendants of Isaac not Ismael.



Originally posted by Cibai
1st. Jews stole the story to fit their own agenda
2nd. Jews stole the land from Arab who is also a semite

Double Steal

Tell me more about bible which I don't read because it was written with lies to fool people, cheat and steal.


Believe what you wish, its obvious you hate the Jews, they did not steal anything unless you consider Palestinians but then again they are not necessarily Canaanites now are they? Arafat was Egyptian.


Originally posted by Cibai

Ok, it is summarised. Jews are worshipping a non-Jews God, Jews are having Sumerian prophets, and other non-Jews prophets.
Those statement was made based on your words. What a shame


No your words. Sure some Jews worship false Gods, as do many other peoples. Jews did not have Sumerian prophets, a Sumerian became the first Jewish and Muslim prophet for that matter.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

1. I guess your command of the English language needs some help. The Flood story PREDATED Sumer. The flood happened BEFORE there was a Sumer.

2. Well since the Flood happened before Sumer existed, I guess they stole it from someone then also. No 2 floods, just one.

3. Well again you haven't read it have you, he promised the land to the descendants of Isaac not Ismael.

4. they did not steal anything unless you consider Palestinians but then again they are not necessarily Canaanites now are they?

5. Sure some Jews worship false Gods, as do many other peoples. Jews did not have Sumerian prophets, a Sumerian became the first Jewish and Muslim prophet for that matter.


1. So whose flood was it if it was not Sumerian? Certainly it was no Jews' either right? But why is it in bible?

2. Ok, as you said Sumerian stole it from someone also, for sure Jews stole it also.


God-Adam-Noah-Abram-Jews. Abram wasn't Jews, Noah wasn't Jews, Adam wasn't Jews, God wasn't Jews. Remember you said Abram was Ur and Noah wasn't Jews.
Why Jews are having non-Jews prophet? and non-Jews God?

3. God promised the land to descendants of Isaac? How you sure it was not promised to Ismael? Jews could have twisted the word when they wrote the bible.
Could you prove Jews was descendant of Isaac?

4. How you sure Jews is Canaanite?

5. A Sumerian became the first Jews? you made that up, didn't you? Where in bible says that a Sumerian became Jews? And is there any historical evidence on that?

Ok as you like, a Sumerian became Jews. And as you said Sumerian stole the story from somewhere else which means Jews stole the story. Sumerian = Jews.


And as you said there was 1 flood. The flood was written in Sumerian tablet several thousand years ago, in Greek, in India. Bible was written 2000 years ago.
Sumerian tablet and other sources predates bible.
Whose is the original? The 1st one, or the later one?



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Cibai
1. So whose flood was it if it was not Sumerian? Certainly it was no Jews' either right? But why is it in bible?


The Flood belonged to no civilization except the pre-deluvian one. The story was passed down to many civilizations that followed albeit in varying forms.




Originally posted by Cibai
2. Ok, as you said Sumerian stole it from someone also, for sure Jews stole it also.


No, you cant steal history. You keep mentioning stealing, not me, I prefer passed on the story.





Originally posted by Cibai
God-Adam-Noah-Abram-Jews. Abram wasn't Jews, Noah wasn't Jews, Adam wasn't Jews, God wasn't Jews. Remember you said Abram was Ur and Noah wasn't Jews.
Why Jews are having non-Jews prophet? and non-Jews God?



Abram was the FIRST JEW, don't you get it?



Originally posted by Cibai
3. God promised the land to descendants of Isaac? How you sure it was not promised to Ismael? Jews could have twisted the word when they wrote the bible.
Could you prove Jews was descendant of Isaac?



Well considering that your claim that Ishmael got the claim is consistent with the Koran, but that is dated at least 2000+ years after the Jewish claim, which by the way was PROVEN accurate with the dead sea scrolls. Ismael was made a promise by God through his mother Haggar, but it was not the claim to the land which was given to Issac.



Originally posted by Cibai
4. How you sure Jews is Canaanite?


the Jews are not Canaanite, read it again. The Jews crossed into Canaan and took the land. Your argument holds no water, if that were to be the case, the US would have to give back North America, and on and on and on.

The Jewish claim to land dates previous to the Muslim one. The Temple of Solomon came before the Dome of the Rock by a long period.



Originally posted by Cibai
5. A Sumerian became the first Jews? you made that up, didn't you? Where in bible says that a Sumerian became Jews? And is there any historical evidence on that?


You make me laugh.. one more time.

Abram was Sumerian, he was told by God to go to the land of Palestine as we know it today. he was the first Jew as per the covenant issued to him, and passed to Issac and his descendants. Why can you not even grasp what I am saying, I am not asking you to believe it, just understand the viewpoint.

BTW - Abram's father was a high priest in Sumer, Abrams father was not ever a Jew, Abram was the First.



Originally posted by Cibai
Ok as you like, a Sumerian became Jews. And as you said Sumerian stole the story from somewhere else which means Jews stole the story. Sumerian = Jews.


Huh? What kind of logic is that? READ....


Originally posted by Cibai
And as you said there was 1 flood. The flood was written in Sumerian tablet several thousand years ago, in Greek, in India. Bible was written 2000 years ago.
Sumerian tablet and other sources predates bible.
Whose is the original? The 1st one, or the later one?


Oh well that is for sure true, the tablets of Sumer predate the Bible for sure, the Bible was not written until the time of Moses. Thing is, the Bible was inspired by God and therefore holds more credence than the tablets in my mind but I am opinionated in this matter. You hate Jews so anything a Jew wrote must be false, so you don't have to believe it.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger The Flood belonged to no civilization except the pre-deluvian one. The story was passed down to many civilizations that followed albeit in varying forms.


That is better. It was a passed down story, certainly with many mistakes. When the author of bible heard the story, he could had heard it wrongly and wrote it wrongly to fit his/her own agenda. By the way why he/she changed the name to Noah? That’s naughty, wasn’t it?


Originally posted by edsinger No, you can’t steal history. You keep mentioning stealing, not me, I prefer passed on the story.


What??? You kept on saying Sumerian “stole” it from someone else in this thread. You used the word STOLE, if Sumers stole, Jews stole too.
And now you changed the word to passing down. Oh no....but.... yeah you can do whatever you like, like Jews changed the Gilgamesh to Noah. That's what bible all about anyway, all the cheats and all the lies.


Originally posted by edsinger Abram was the FIRST JEW, don't you get it?


Why Abram changed himself from Sumerian to Jews?

Ok Abram was the first Jews, as you said. And all his sons and daughter were all Jews.
Arab are Jews, right?

How can a dog became a cat and then offspring a cat + a cow? The god must be crazy.


Originally posted by edsinger but that is dated at least 2000+ years after the Jewish claim

Bible 2000 years ago, Koran 1600 years ago, that is 400 years not 2000+ unless you based it on Dead Sea scroll.
So bible copied Dead Sea scroll after they copied Sumerian tablet?


Originally posted by edsinger The Jews crossed into Canaan and took the land.
…the US would have to give back North America


They took it for free?
I wish I can go to your place and take the land.
I think U.S. should.
and on and on and on


Originally posted by edsinger The Jewish claim to land dates previous to the Muslim one. The Temple of Solomon came before the Dome of the Rock by a long period.

Yeap and Solomon belongs to Arab also, they are descendant of Abram, aren’t they?


Originally posted by edsinger Thing is, the Bible was inspired by God and therefore holds more credence than the tablets……


Is there any proof on that beside Jews bible? Don’t give me the proof from bible. We are arguing the credibility of bible here, so please bring some other historical proof.

Anyway that is your personal believe! and others have their believes differ from yours. You and others and we all NEVER GIVE UP. Don't accuse atheist for never giving up.



You made me laugh many times in fact.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by CibaiThat is better. It was a passed down story, certainly with many mistakes. When the author of bible heard the story, he could had heard it wrongly and wrote it wrongly to fit his/her own agenda. By the way why he/she changed the name to Noah? That’s naughty, wasn’t it?


How do you know that the original name was not Noah? Since you consider the Bible false, then I already have my answer.


Originally posted by CibaiWhat??? You kept on saying Sumerian “stole” it from someone else in this thread. You used the word STOLE, if Sumers stole, Jews stole too.And now you changed the word to passing down. Oh no....but.... yeah you can do whatever you like, like Jews changed the Gilgamesh to Noah. That's what bible all about anyway, all the cheats and all the lies.


No you were the one claiming the Jews stole this they stole that.

"Cheats and Lies" Yup --- I can see where you get your information.


Originally posted by Cibai

Why Abram changed himself from Sumerian to Jews?


He didn't, God did, READ the story so you understand, you can not argue what it says if you haven't read it for yourself.


Originally posted by Cibai
Ok Abram was the first Jews, as you said. And all his sons and daughter were all Jews. Arab are Jews, right?


Sons with Sarah(wife) = Jews -- Issac -- the Bloodline
Sons with Haggar(sarah's servant) = Arabs -- also a great nation as was promised by God.


Originally posted by Cibai
How can a dog became a cat and then offspring a cat + a cow? The god must be crazy.


So you do not consider Jews human I would presume? By your analogy your opinions are obvious.



Originally posted by Cibai
Bible 2000 years ago, Koran 1600 years ago, that is 400 years not 2000+ unless you based it on Dead Sea scroll. So bible copied Dead Sea scroll after they copied Sumerian tablet?


Hmm. Moses ~ 1500 B.C. + 600 years to Muhammad. That's 2100 years by my math....

The DSS were just the oldest known copies in existence, that's all. Plus they CONFIRMED what what passed to us through the ages through the Masoretic text and the Septuagint.

I would presume that you would understand that your Koran cannot be backed up in the same matter?


Originally posted by Cibai

They took it for free? I wish I can go to your place and take the land.
I think U.S. should.
and on and on and on


I am sure you do, so should the Indians retake Pakistan? How about kicking the Muslims from Africa? Your logic works BOTH ways.




Originally posted by CibaiYeap and Solomon belongs to Arab also, they are descendant of Abram, aren’t they?


But Solomon was from Issac's line not Ishmael's, so NO


Originally posted by CibaiIs there any proof on that beside Jews bible? Don’t give me the proof from bible. We are arguing the credibility of bible here, so please bring some other historical proof.


Bring the same for your Koran?


Originally posted by Cibai
Anyway that is your personal believe! and others have their believes differ from yours. You and others and we all NEVER GIVE UP. Don't accuse atheist for never giving up. You made me laugh many times in fact.


Atheist? why such hatred for the Jews then?



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger1. How do you know that the original name was not Noah? Since you consider the Bible false, then I already have my answer.


Since I consider the bible was false, and since Sumerians predate Bible, and since Sumerians called him Gilgamesh.


Originally posted by edsinger2. No you were the one claiming the Jews stole this they stole that.


You want me to quote your words? Unless you have edited it.
I DID say Jews stole from Sumerians, and you DID say Sumerian stole from somewhere else. They all stole. It doesn't hurt to know Sumerians stole, but weeeee it hurts to know Jews stole. The bible stole or passing down or whatever words you like it to be.


Originally posted by edsinger3. He didn't, God did, READ the story so you understand, you can not argue what it says if you haven't read it for yourself.


Is there any proved God did? Which God? Give historical resources beside bible. We are discussing the credibility of bible here, DON'T tell me the bible is the proof.


Originally posted by edsinger4. Sons with Sarah(wife) = Jews -- Issac -- the Bloodline
Sons with Haggar(sarah's servant) = Arabs -- also a great nation as was promised by God.


In which part of bible did say that? And is there any outside reliable reosurces?

Let me ask again.
How can a dog became a cat and then offspring a cat + a cow? The god must be crazy.


Originally posted by edsinger5. Hmm. Moses ~ 1500 B.C. + 600 years to Muhammad. That's 2100 years by my math....


Yes, you can add up to 6,000 years or more if you recall fictive character Adam. Where is the evidence beside bible?

Was it Moses first or Abram first? You SAID the land was promised by God to Abram, how could Moses claimed the land before Abram existed?
Moses predates Abram, and the land was promised to Abram, that was before Moses. You confused with timelines? As you claimed the later bible is the original than the older Sumerian tablet?

Where could a mind be when it is twisted?


Originally posted by edsinger6. I would presume that you would understand that your Koran cannot be backed up in the same matter?


My Koran? I didn't bring Koran into this discussion. It was you who brought bible, jews and israel here in this forum.


Originally posted by edsinger7. I am sure you do, so should the Indians retake Pakistan? How about kicking the Muslims from Africa? Your logic works BOTH ways.


Yes, they should.


No, you are wrong, you can't kick African out of Africa. You must differentiate between religion and nations.

If Indian should NOT retake Pakistan, why should Jews retake israel? tell me!
The history and the whole world knew Pakistan was in India. But not everybody agree any God promised anything to Jews.

If one has to retake, then everybody retake. If one should NOT retake then jews should not retake!


Originally posted by edsinger8. But Solomon was from Issac's line not Ishmael's, so NO


Any proof on that? Physical evidence, not mumbo jumbo from jews bible.

Again, how could a monkey give birth to a monkey + chicken?

Jews are patriarchy right? If Abram suddenly transformed himself into Jews then all his descendants must be Jews regardless from which wife. Unless there was a 2nd Abram. I won't be surprised since we have Sumerian Abram and Jews Abram.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Cibai
Since I consider the bible was false, and since Sumerians predate Bible, and since Sumerians called him Gilgamesh.


His name could have been Bob for all we know, its irrelevant to the topic at hand. You consider the Bible false, I don't.


Originally posted by Cibai
You want me to quote your words? Unless you have edited it.
I DID say Jews stole from Sumerians, and you DID say Sumerian stole from somewhere else. They all stole. It doesn't hurt to know Sumerians stole, but weeeee it hurts to know Jews stole. The bible stole or passing down or whatever words you like it to be.


Exactly you used 'stole' first, and I followed your example trying to explain that the flood predated sumer.


Originally posted by Cibai
Is there any proved God did? Which God? Give historical resources beside bible. We are discussing the credibility of bible here, DON'T tell me the bible is the proof.


Well there were not exactly many newspapers back then, so what we rely on is what was recorded.


Originally posted by CibaiIn which part of bible did say that? And is there any outside reliable reosurces?


Obviously you haven't read it and I am not going to feed it to you. Outside sources? Any outside sources for the sumerian tablets?


Originally posted by CibaiLet me ask again.
How can a dog became a cat and then offspring a cat + a cow? The god must be crazy.



Let me TELL you again, you hate Jews and by implying that a dog and cat can even mate then you show your bias.

Dog can not equal a cat
Sumerian CAN equal a Jew (at least the first one did)
Race is not different species.

I will not even deal with this crap again, you hate Jews and that is obvious.



Originally posted by CibaiYes, you can add up to 6,000 years or more if you recall fictive character Adam. Where is the evidence beside bible?


Well Adam didn't record anything, the first written record was the stone tablets. At least Bible wise. Moses did write it down, in Hebrew even, not Hieroglyphics.




Originally posted by CibaiWas it Moses first or Abram first? You SAID the land was promised by God to Abram, how could Moses claimed the land before Abram existed?


Well going on the belief that you absolutely have no idea what the Bible says because you have never even read it of your own accord and just rely on things said to you I will humor your question.

Abram became Abraham

Long after that came Moses, of the bloodline of Issac by the way..


Originally posted by Cibai
Moses predates Abram, and the land was promised to Abram, that was before Moses. You confused with timelines? As you claimed the later bible is the original than the older Sumerian tablet?


No I did not, go back and read.


Originally posted by Cibai
Where could a mind be when it is twisted?


Funny you should ask...


Originally posted by Cibai
My Koran? I didn't bring Koran into this discussion. It was you who brought bible, jews and israel here in this forum.



Well I sure figured your hatred of the Jews came from somewhere, maybe you are in the KKK.


Originally posted by Cibai

Originally posted by edsinger7. I am sure you do, so should the Indians retake Pakistan? How about kicking the Muslims from Africa? Your logic works BOTH ways.

Yes, they should.



Ah ha, so all the wars should go back and return the land. Where ever it is you live once belonged to someone else.
Possession is 9/10ths ownership isn't it?


Originally posted by Cibai
No, you are wrong, you can't kick African out of Africa. You must differentiate between religion and nations.



That's funny considering your comments above about Abram.



Originally posted by Cibai
If Indian should NOT retake Pakistan, why should Jews retake israel? tell me! The history and the whole world knew Pakistan was in India. But not everybody agree any God promised anything to Jews.


So Palestine was once Greek, so give it back to Greece then?


Originally posted by Cibai
If one has to retake, then everybody retake. If one should NOT retake then jews should not retake!


Jews didn't retake, they were dispersed by Rome, then given the land back in 1948, but were promised it in 1917 but the hatred (you so well show) delayed that until after millions were cooked in ovens by the nazi's with the Arabs consent.


Originally posted by Cibai

Originally posted by edsinger8. But Solomon was from Issac's line not Ishmael's, so NO


Any proof on that? Physical evidence, not mumbo jumbo from jews bible.


Yeah let me run down to the courthouse and get the birth certificate. Be right back.............
Your a funny one....

How about proof that it was even Solomon's temple, other than the Bible we don't have one, so it must be false right because everything in the Bible is false and lies because them darn Jews wrote it and they can only record falsity and lies right?



Originally posted by Cibai
Again, how could a monkey give birth to a monkey + chicken?


Again your racism show brightly. That's twice in the same thread. That hatred will eat at you. You really should give it up.




Originally posted by Cibai
Jews are patriarchy right? If Abram suddenly transformed himself into Jews then all his descendants must be Jews regardless from which wife. Unless there was a 2nd Abram. I won't be surprised since we have Sumerian Abram and Jews Abram.


Well you are somewhat correct. the line of Isaac became what we call Jews, the other child Ismahel became Arabs.

Jew was not a race at that time, it was a religion (Judaism). There are black Jews you know. Now you have descendants that are Jewish through birth and playing the odds, there are probably some Jewish folks in your family tree at some point.

You know looking now at both Arabs and Jews in the Holy Land, some look very much alike, they are both Semitic peoples.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger His name could have been Bob for all we know, its irrelevant to the topic at hand. You consider the Bible false, I don't.


Ok, let’s call him Gilgamesh since Sumerians tablet predate bible.


Originally posted by edsinger Well there were not exactly many newspapers back then, so what we rely on is what was recorded.


Don’t rely on ONE record only, it could be wrong and twisted. For flood story it has many resources, we rely on the oldest one.


Originally posted by edsinger Outside sources? Any outside sources for the sumerian tablets?


No and Yes, there is no outside source beside Sumerians tablets except Greek, Indian and other versions. They were not really reliable.
It is just the same as bible, BIBLE IS NOT A RELIABLE source since it has no other reliable sources. You can believe what you believe which is not reliable.


Originally posted by edsinger Dog can not equal a cat
Sumerian CAN equal a Jew (at least the first one did)
Race is not different species.


Now you said Sumerian equals to Jews. And Sumerians copied the story from somewhere else. If one day scientist find out the story belongs to Simpson’s family, then you will say Simpsons equals to Jews. You claimed everything scientist found equals to Jews?

How could a Japanese give birth to Japanese + Indian?


Originally posted by edsinger Well Adam didn't record anything, the first written record was the stone tablets. At least Bible wise. Moses did write it down, in Hebrew even, not Hieroglyphics.


Yes fictional character recorded nothing. And one of the oldest tablet found is Sumerians’ tablet.
Where is the proof about Moses writing?


Originally posted by edsinger Where ever it is you live once belonged to someone else.

Yes, Israel could be once belonged to someone else, don’t go back there.


Originally posted by edsinger
So Palestine was once Greek, so give it back to Greece then?

Any sources on that? If Palestine was not given back to Greek, then DON’T GIVE IT BACK TO jews. Simple as that.


Originally posted by edsinger Yeah let me run down to the courthouse and get the birth certificate.


It says you have no strong proof. Did they have the courthouse in the old times? Why jews claimed Israel while they have no whatever evidence, no courthouse no records, no proof beside bible which was written by their owns to fit their own agenda?


Originally posted by edsinger How about proof that it was even Solomon's temple, other than the Bible we don't have one, so it must be false right because everything in the Bible is false and lies because them darn Jews wrote it and they can only record falsity and lies right?


Right. Darn RIGHT.


Originally posted by edsinger Jew was not a race at that time, it was a religion (Judaism).


Alright, Abram created Judaism by forgetting his own Sumerian ancestor and start calling himself the 1st Jews. What a betrayal, naughty.


Originally posted by edsinger There are black Jews you know.


Good, they have rights to have Israel as Jews’ god promised. Share the land with the black please.


Originally posted by edsinger There are probably some Jewish folks in your family tree at some point.


Yes, there is a possibility. And there is a possibility also some Japanese folks in Jews family tree. Or perhaps Negro folks in Jews family tree.



Originally posted by edsinger You know looking now at both Arabs and Jews in the Holy Land, some look very much alike, they are both Semitic peoples.


Great, they should share Israel. What is Semitic? I thought you claimed Abram was something else, he was Sumerian became Jews?
Please revise your statement.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
And Yet there are those that think otherwise as to the Date...


At the same time, those who date the Flood within known Near Eastern ancient history - about 3000 BC - have long been derided by many Bible scholars. Even some who believe the Bible to be historically true feel the date cannot be later than 10,000 - 12,000 BC, placing it well beyond the reach of any related archaeological or literary data for which dates are known.



All the information I've seen from reliable biblical scholars indicates they feel a date of 2600-2400 BC to be most accurate. They don't generally accept earlier dates.


Although the equipment used to date radioactive materials has become more sophisticated, basic problems originally discovered by Willard Libby, inventor of the C14 dating method, still pertain. Radiocarbon (C14) dating, calibrated using known dates of Egyptian artifacts, has proved accurate back to only about 2000 BC, according to the discoverer


Ed, your source didn't keep up with the developements in radiocarbon dating since 1965. I'm afraid this is a leading tactic with some of the sites that want to prove a certain date. The issues were addressed long ago and now multiple methods are used to date sites. And as a note -- almost NO Egyptian artifacts (or other artifacts) are carbon dated. You can only date things that were once living (like mammoths and mummies and cotton cloth and food.)


EDIT: As for Gilgamesh and Noah being the exact same person, that is not what I am saying, what I think is that the persons both go back to a single source for the flood story, What are the odds of 2 people building boats and carrying animals after being warned of a coming flood.


Your source is very mistaken in this.

The Gilgamesh tale comes from an older tale (and it's copied, by the way), that of a merchant named Atrahasis: en.wikipedia.org...

In this, the flood is clearly local. The storm lasts only a week.

But you're right in that the brief details in the Gilgamesh story (not of Gilgamesh himself, but of the flood hero named Utnapishtim match to some degree, but are different in a number of details -- including the fact that the mountains were still visible in spite of the flood:
www.religioustolerance.org...

And Utnapishtim and his wife are turned into gods at the end of the tale:
www.piney-2.com...


The Jews did not steal the story no more than the Sumerians did, I believe the source came from the immediate post deluvian world, and was passed down from generation to generation.


See the previous links with lines that are directly copied from the (proveably) older tale of Atrahasis.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by CibaiOk, let’s call him Gilgamesh since Sumerians tablet predate bible.


Well as ByRD pointed out above, it to was taken from another name and another story that was also sumerian, so lets call it whatever, "the Flood Dude"


Originally posted by CibaiDon’t rely on ONE record only, it could be wrong and twisted. For flood story it has many resources, we rely on the oldest one.


But the oldest might not be the most accurate. How about examining all of them and try to piece the true story together.


Originally posted by CibaiNo and Yes, there is no outside source beside Sumerians tablets except Greek, Indian and other versions. They were not really reliable.It is just the same as bible, BIBLE IS NOT A RELIABLE source since it has no other reliable sources. You can believe what you believe which is not reliable.


Well the Bible being a NOT reliable source is an opinion. Many including scientists do feel that it records history very well, you can not just pick and choose.



Originally posted by CibaiNow you said Sumerian equals to Jews. And Sumerians copied the story from somewhere else. If one day scientist find out the story belongs to Simpson’s family, then you will say Simpsons equals to Jews. You claimed everything scientist found equals to Jews?


What? See Byrds post, he does a good job and knows the subject well.


Originally posted by CibaiHow could a Japanese give birth to Japanese + Indian?


Well that could easily happen, you would have an indo japanese ethnicity.


Originally posted by CibaiYes fictional character recorded nothing. And one of the oldest tablet found is Sumerians’ tablet.Where is the proof about Moses writing?


Well considering the proof of the Old testament speaks for itself, it is one of many ancient documents we have, but since you hate the Jews so much you automatically consider it false without even knowing what it says.


Originally posted by CibaiYes, Israel could be once belonged to someone else, don’t go back there.


The Land of Israel did belong to someone else before the Jews. Thing is the claim of Islam to the land is false because Abraham was promised the land and his bloodline of Issac inherited that promise not the line of Ismael.


Originally posted by CibaiAny sources on that? If Palestine was not given back to Greek, then DON’T GIVE IT BACK TO jews. Simple as that.


Any sources? Ever heard of Alexander the Great?


Originally posted by CibaiIt says you have no strong proof. Did they have the courthouse in the old times? Why jews claimed Israel while they have no whatever evidence, no courthouse no records, no proof beside bible which was written by their owns to fit their own agenda?


Well again your bias sticks out. There have been many things stated in the Bible that have been LATER proven through science and archeology.


Originally posted by CibaiRight. Darn RIGHT.

Yes you hate the Jews.



Originally posted by CibaiAlright, Abram created Judaism by forgetting his own Sumerian ancestor and start calling himself the 1st Jews. What a betrayal, naughty.


Not at all, it just shows your lack of understanding the foundation of Judaism and the covenants of God. He made covenants to mankind even before there was a Jew, the rainbow for one.


Originally posted by CibaiGood, they have rights to have Israel as Jews’ god promised. Share the land with the black please.


Actually they do, the Ethiopian Jews came to Israel in groves in the 1980's. BTW they had been around since the time of Sheba which backs up the story in the Bible concerning her and Solomon.


Originally posted by CibaiYes, there is a possibility. And there is a possibility also some Japanese folks in Jews family tree. Or perhaps Negro folks in Jews family tree.


True indeed.


Originally posted by CibaiGreat, they should share Israel. What is Semitic? I thought you claimed Abram was something else, he was Sumerian became Jews? Please revise your statement.


If you can not understand this after 5 attempts, I will just request you go back and read, no need to keep repeating it.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by ByrdSee the previous links with lines that are directly copied from the (proveably) older tale of Atrahasis.


Thanks Byrd, your contribution to this conversation is appreciated.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:10 AM
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There's been a recent program on either the Discovery channel or the History channel about "the flood dude" Atrahasis. They went over a lot of the evidence including supporting documents.

On a personal level, I see the Noah (third generation tale) and the Gilgamesh tale as "teaching tales". These are example stories (of the "names have been changed to protect the innocent" type of tales) used to warn people against certain actions and strengthen social bonds. The Native American Coyote tales are another good example of this -- the "if you do that, this will happen."

In this case it's a "if you continue to misbehave, remember that LAST time god/the gods sent a flood and wiped everyone out except for a few very good people" type story. The "gods got tired of you and your noise and antics" tale occurs in a lot of societies, but the punishment and who survived varies.

So I don't see it as factual history, but as one of the most important morality enforcing tales of the Bible.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger Well as ByRD pointed out above,…so lets call it whatever, "the Flood Dude"

Byrd is one of the best, I love his writing. He is a kind of person who help others free from stupid bible and other religious dogma.
Ok, he is Flood Dude, he is no longer exclusive to bible.

Originally posted by edsinger But the oldest might not be the most accurate. How about examining all of them and try to piece the true story together.

Byrd said bible is 3rd hand resources in this case.
True, oldest might not be accurate, and 3rd hand is certainly worst, distorted passing down, all the cheats and lies. So BIBLE IS FAR FROM ACCURATE. That’s the whole point, at least on this case.
It’s ok to piece the story together. But somehow according to Byrd, it COULD NOT be factual.
It is not a sad thing to hear Sumerian and the flood dude was a fiction, but ouchhhh it hurts to know bible is a joke, what would happen to 1 billion Catholics/Christians? Would they go to hell for believing the false?

Originally posted by edsinger Well the Bible being a NOT reliable source is an opinion. Many including scientists do feel that it records history very well, you can not just pick and choose.

Yes it is an opinion. For those Catholic/Christian who believe it is a reliable source is also just an OPINION also. Bible is not something the truth and only truth, it is just an opinion of mass.
Why not people just Pick and Choose? Why Catholic/Chistian pick and choose 3rd hand resources?

Originally posted by edsinger Well that could easily happen, you would have an indo japanese ethnicity.

Yes, if the Japanese breed with Indian, then it is Indo-Japanese.
You did say Abram was the 1st Jews, there were no Jews and no Arabs before him. All his descendants must be Jews and have the rights to claim Israel.
What happen to God, why he gave right to ½ of Abram descendants and denied another half?
The god must be crazy.

Originally posted by edsinger Well considering the proof of the Old testament speaks for itself, it is one of many ancient documents we have…

What documents? Show me please.
I think the more you show the more people know they are all plagiarism?

Originally posted by edsinger The Land of Israel did belong to someone else before the Jews. Thing is the claim of Islam to the land is false because Abraham was promised the land and his bloodline of Issac inherited that promise not the line of Ismael.

Where is the proof? Give me please.
Jews could easily made it up, they could have written anything, they could have changed the words or made up the promise to have the land. All the cheats and lies.

Originally posted by edsinger Ever heard of Alexander the Great?

Yes, Alexander, I heard of him, I never studied him. But I watched the movie. He NEVER EVER conquered Indian! He failed there, he was killed there. He underestimated India, his soldiers gone to a place, a jungle with animals and insects they had never seen before. They faced Indian elephant cavalries which they never ever thought of and which elephants they never ever seen before.
I could be wrong, Byrd could be a help. 

Originally posted by edsinger There have been many things stated in the Bible that have been LATER proven through science and archeology.

What are they? Are they just another plagiarisms?

Originally posted by edsinger He made covenants to mankind even before there was a Jew, the rainbow for one.

Are you saying there was no never ever rainbow before the flood dude?
Who is joking here?

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Cibai]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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Gilgamesh was NOT Noah.
Check here: www.piney-2.com...

THE FLOOD NARRATIVE FROM THE GILGAMESH EPIC Tablet XI

Told by Utnapishtim to Gilgamesh

The story is related by Utnapishtim (Sumerian Ziusudra , Genesis Noah)

There are many interesting things in this tale for you all to consider.

Here is a page briefly stating flood accounts from many peoples around the world. www.dreamscape.com...

Here is a page with descriptions of massive earth changes:

"Looking for evidence of ancient cataclysmic floods, Underworld explores up-to-date geological and climatological research on what may have happened during the last 17,000 years. Central to Hancock's investigation are inundation maps created by Dr. Glen Milne of Durham University which show vast tracts of mostly coastal land which were submerged by three waves of cataclysmic flooding between 17,000 and 8,000 years ago. The area of land -- the best quality habitable land of that time -- lost to the sea was huge: 5 percent of the earth's surface or 25 million square kilometers. While such maps cannot be 100 percent accurate, Hancock believes they are accurate enough to support his theories."

www.theosophy-nw.org...



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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You seem to just HATE the Bible and the Jews in general, you want proof when there can be no proof as we can not travel back in time. You call it nothing but lies and cheats and yet you have never read it, nor even looked into what it says. You argue from only one angle and do not even care to examine the other side of the story. I Pity you.

Tell you what, PROVE the Bible wrong........... You cant...

It must be sad in your case to not now what comes after death, I for one know what comes and my heart is at peace. Yours never will be especially with the hatred you have towards the Jewish people.

Fine , let your hate eat you from within.

Last thing, no matter how much you hate the Jews and their book, just as the Book foretold 2000 years beforehand that the Israelites would return to their land, they have, and they will stay. There is nothing you can do about it, the hatred just breeds more and more. It was tried in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973 and each time whilst outnumbered, they won. the will win the next time also.



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