USA request Assanges extradition

I've never heard the crickets so clearly here down under.... Which doesn't surprise me.

originally posted by: Kindnessandkisses
a reply to: paraphi

In USA a bought federal judge . A rigged federal defender, phone fake evidence against.. all evidence for home not used . Family hurt extortion..
It's beyond rigged.. oh and a sealed Court room to frame him
That's how USA federal courts work against whistleblowers.
Personal experience

It's the same in Canada, probably everywhere. I was a whistleblower in a $150 million tax and public funds fraud involving universities and a government minister. What happens... Everybody got gag orders/permanent injunctions, all done in superior court behind closed doors and all records sealed (something like my CSIS file apparently). The criminals in government will always protect their own and sacrifice whistleblowers.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: LABTECH767

I believe they did already jail several sources whom provided information to wicki leak's and in doing so they mostly acted lawfully and ethically as it could be argued those people were not simply whistle blowers but in some of the information they disclosed also actually traitors - it is a thin grey line though and if those people such as manning actually believed they were doing what they did to expose criminality on the part of there employer in the public interest then?.

What we are talking about is massive data dump of TS, secret and very sensitive information. How could anyone assume it was all criminal material to equal a whistle-blower status? I have looked over much of it and I found not a single thing even remotely equaling whistle-blower status, not one thing....

Manning should have received a hell of a lot more punishment. I do believe though that Wikileaks might have had a larger part in the process too and not just a depository. Someone helped Manning with information to gain access to areas he/she was not allowed to be in.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

So one has to as, what was the point of the DOJ adding charges they likely knew would prevent them from getting a hold of him? And I think that's to send a message.

Could very well be...We do not know on what side Trump sits. Does he want to fry his ass, or does he want to create a situation where the US can not touch him.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I still think the US is making a critical mistake, this is bad press for them.

Now if Assange had mysterious decided to commit suicide, fell down a flight of stairs or been mugged and killed for his wallet no one would be batting an eyelid but they chose this route because they feared he may indeed have an insurance package, a set of document's that would be release IF he met his untimely death and while he is alive that package is presumably still safe at least for the present so they have to find out whom has it, were it is and how it would be released.

That said I would have expected it to already be released BUT Assange may be holding onto it in the feint hope that he can use it in some form of plea bargain if he does get extradited to the US.

As I say I do not approve of him causing the death of spy's needlessly and perhaps disrupting serious operation's and there may have been time's when his leak's instead of making a safer world could have triggered instability which could have precipitated war so his actions were questionable.

But the US is still making a mistake, oh they may succeed in shutting down or as they probably now fully intend and may already have achieved to take control of Wikileaks but if that is the case then another source will likely come into being.

Assange stepped into a minefield when he upset everyone's propaganda machines as well.

I stand by my opinion, he should neither be charged or extradited - and doing so is only going to make a lot of people even some whom love the US become very suspicious of it, already our opinion's of TODAY's USA are rather jaded, look how many of there own citizen's they incarcerate in a prisoners for money from the state scheme, how corrupt there judicial system is and how violent and fractured US society appears to be from without.

I love the OLD US but I find it very hard to love what I see today from an outsiders perspective, there are undoubtedly probably still great places to live, great god fearing people and many patriot's of that great nation but it has so very many problems' it makes my country's fractious problems' look like a grazed knee compared to an amputated arm, the US need's to fix itself, restore power to it's people not it's corporations or it will fall apart and that will be VERY bad for entire the world.

originally posted by: LABTECH767

I still think the US is making a critical mistake, this is bad press for them.

Don't think the bad press can be worst then what the dump already did. Lots of egg on America's face.

Now if Assange had mysterious decided to commit suicide, fell down a flight of stairs or been mugged and killed for his wallet no one would be batting an eyelid but they chose this route because they feared he may indeed have an insurance package, a set of document's that would be release IF he met his untimely death and while he is alive that package is presumably still safe at least for the present so they have to find out whom has it, were it is and how it would be released.

That said I would have expected it to already be released BUT Assange may be holding onto it in the feint hope that he can use it in some form of plea bargain if he does get extradited to the US.

No need to kill him since the damage is already done and gone.

As I say I do not approve of him causing the death of spy's needlessly and perhaps disrupting serious operation's and there may have been time's when his leak's instead of making a safer world could have triggered instability which could have precipitated war so his actions were questionable.

I really didn't see anything that was good for the public to know...

I stand by my opinion, he should neither be charged or extradited - and doing so is only going to make a lot of people even some whom love the US become very suspicious of it, already our opinion's of TODAY's USA are rather jaded, look how many of there own citizen's they incarcerate in a prisoners for money from the state scheme, how corrupt there judicial system is and how violent and fractured US society appears to be from without.

I love the OLD US but I find it very hard to love what I see today from an outsiders perspective, there are undoubtedly probably still great places to live, great god fearing people and many patriot's of that great nation but it has so very many problems' it makes my country's fractious problems' look like a grazed knee compared to an amputated arm, the US need's to fix itself, restore power to it's people not it's corporations or it will fall apart and that will be VERY bad for entire the world.

How can you say the quote above this one and still say "he should neither be charged or extradited". As I said it will come down to whether he was involved in the gathering or not. If he provided the means for Manning to gain access then he should be brought up on those charges. I think the ones they are suggesting right now are rather small in nature.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I am not saying this from the perspective of a US citizen but as an outsider, it paint's the US as on a witch hunt and out to make an example of the man.

Perhaps the US does have a point in what they are doing, perhaps it will even work or it could and probably will backfire especially when seen from a historic perspective as a time when the US became the enemy and not the bastion of free speech.

How do you think future historian's will view this.

originally posted by: LABTECH767

I am not saying this from the perspective of a US citizen but as an outsider, it paint's the US as on a witch hunt and out to make an example of the man.

Not sure witch hunt is the right word, and making an example of what? A man who broke laws and damaged America's intel capabilities, hmmm maybe we need to make example of a person like that.

Perhaps the US does have a point in what they are doing, perhaps it will even work or it could and probably will backfire especially when seen from a historic perspective as a time when the US became the enemy and not the bastion of free speech.

How do you think future historian's will view this.

It will read... F with America and America will F right back...

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
By appearances only.

Why? Are you afraid of the facts and the evidence being presented? If Assange ends up in the US then he will have an army of lawyers. This will be as public as it gets.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

The government's charges may not be related to Assange being a whistleblower. He’s being charged with “ WWI-era Espionage Act over “unlawfully obtaining and disclosing classified documents related to the national defense.” All of the charges combined carry a maximum sentence of up to 175 years in prison.”

He could forget getting off with trying to hide behind the whistleblower status since Chelsie Manning has already been sent to jail for 30 years for what she revealed to Assange.


Maybe Trump will save him with a pardon


Didn't he say he loved WikiLeaks

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
By appearances only.

Why? Are you afraid of the facts and the evidence being presented? If Assange ends up in the US then he will have an army of lawyers. This will be as public as it gets.

You don't get the same rights to a defense when espionage act is tacked on.

I'm not afraid of any evidence... I'm afraid of the precedence.

If he stands trial here (which I doubt UK will extradite now) he would likely get found guilty since he wouldn't have the right to a proper defense.

This is an Intel community job. They want him badly because of all the past leaks he did not just this one.

Obama could pardon Manning for that one leak and the IC community wouldn’t bitch but Assange has been doing this a long time and they want to get him very badly.


I doubt England doesn't hand him over. The IC of the US is too close to the UK's IC and America would be very angry if they didn't hand him over.

Assange problem is this isn't political, both sides the left and right want him punished.

They're not going to go into anything related to whistleblowing and if Assange’s defense tries to do that the prosecutor will object and the judge will likely not allow it as relevant.

And remember CS above is right, the government will cry national security is at stake so little will be allowed to be revealed. The only thing relevant is that he published and received illegally stolen national security material that the original leaker has already been convicted of.

Assange needs to assemble a dream team as OJ had.

originally posted by: Willtell

Assange needs to assemble a dream team as OJ had.

If the exposed secret doesn't fit then you must requite... doesn't roll off the tongue as well as OJ's did.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That is utterly wrong, it will not read that it will read to the rest of us in the developed world that America has gone from peacekeeper to untrustworthy bully no longer worthy of envy or respect.

If the US want's to reclaim that respect it has to show itself to be a bastion of freedom once more - which it most certainly no longer is - a champion of freedom once more - which it most certainly no longer is and once again a country to be envied which I am actually very sad to inform you that it most certainly no longer is.

Remember the word's of your constitution.

Your citizen's are supposed to be free and informed - that latter part informed mean's educated and have access to information that is currently being withheld from them often by there own intelligence services whom are most often in breach of your own constitution using war powers that have never been relaxed and which have been in place in your country to allow them to circumvent your constitution and NOT for the betterment of your nation but of a minority since the 1930's.

There is actually no problem with those powers being in place but they were only ever meant as temporary and NOT permanent powers suspending and NOT cancelling your constitution.

Listen to me and think for once, I am British and I love your nation for the price it paid to help mine but I have seen in my lifetime which is just shy of 50 years your nation going DOWN, your right's being infringed and ignored and your role as a paragon of Freedom and a defender and policeman of the world lost while your military has been abused by at least two of your presidents for the sole purpose of there oil company aka Iraq (well actually the first gulf war was more than justified and Saddam had to be brought back on a leash which he was most effectively so maybe I am being a tad bit unfair to Bush Snr).

In your favor Libya as NOT your (the US) fault that was Cameron and his French counterpart (so the fault of we Brit's and our neighbors on the other side of the English channel) whom called on the US to back them in there attempt to get there hands' on Libya's oil while the US actually wanted to stay out of it but had to pay back debt's when they called on them to do so since we and the French had helped them in the Libya Debacle and several other conflict's.

The Last time the US genuinely tried to be the worlds policeman for the good of the people was in Somalia and that went very bad indeed - hell even we Brits at the height of our power had our hand's full when we had to stop the Mahdi and his Somali warrior's whom were at that time tearing up Egypt and much of north east Africa as they carved out a new empire for themselves - and had it not been for us would have succeeded in doing so.

I do however agree with Trump were China is concerned but I think it is too little and FAR too late - the cat as we say is well and truly out of the bag and China is now well nigh an unstoppable force with only genuine military conflict being the one thing that can stop them and no one in there right mind want's to go to war with a nuclear armed nation so if Trump's successor keeps up the pressure expect a raft of new proxy wars as happened with the Russian's and millions dead as a consequence but the only other option is to let your nation slip into second, then third and then fourth place on the global power and influence ranking as China, India and Russia catch up and each of those nations has a far higher population so once they are rich enough and have lifted enough of there people out of poverty they will consume more than the US and become more important markets as a consequence of this.

Meanwhile your security services are chasing after a sickly man whom they have tried to frame for rape to get him extradited in the past and whom as he is not one of your citizens has not actually broken any of your laws - though that information could be argued to be stolen intellectual property and therefore make him a thief though that type of theft anywhere but in the US and China is usually a civil and not a state matter.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
The espionage act is a weaponized archaic and irrelevant act the Obama admin got creative with to circumvent the rights of whistle blowers and journalists.
The worse part is, the defense cannot argue motive or intent...

I am not too familiar with US law, but happy for you to provide an impartial factoid around your point. Anyway, as I said the legal team behind Assange, should he be extradited, will doubtless ensure any actual, or perceived unfairness in his legal proceedings will be made known.

Anyway, it's all starting. The UK Home Secretary has signed the extradition request, so it will all enter a legal process which you can (should you wish) go and watch.

The ever so boring Guardian

a reply to: paraphi

I don't think I'll be able to give you a clear answer unfortunately. This is due to me not being a lawyer, and also that it appears the government can use different tools on a case by case basis to load the deck in their favor (my opinion).

The best example I can give to you is a case study from The Intercept. And to be fair, I couldn't call it impartial as they are the outlet she allegedly leaked to, but it's still the best example I can give, but I thought I'd share the caveat link
Edit: Here is a lengthy piece that may have some more answers for you, though they may not be as direct.

edit on 13-6-2019 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: LABTECH767

That is utterly wrong, it will not read that it will read to the rest of us in the developed world that America has gone from peacekeeper to untrustworthy bully no longer worthy of envy or respect.

Come-on, first my comment was meant to be snarky, and second yours is total BS. Data dumping a huge amount of military and Embassy intelligence is somehow OK? Not worthy to seek punishment? This is not a whistle-blower event in anyway.

If the US want's to reclaim that respect it has to show itself to be a bastion of freedom once more - which it most certainly no longer is - a champion of freedom once more - which it most certainly no longer is and once again a country to be envied which I am actually very sad to inform you that it most certainly no longer is.

Don't really care what your world thinks of America, would you like to know what I think of your country, ya I think not...

Your citizen's are supposed to be free and informed - that latter part informed mean's educated and have access to information that is currently being withheld from them often by there own intelligence services whom are most often in breach of your own constitution using war powers that have never been relaxed and which have been in place in your country to allow them to circumvent your constitution and NOT for the betterment of your nation but of a minority since the 1930's.

This rings much like the "open borders" movement, we will call it the "no secrets movement". It is stupid to suggest that everything should be on the table for everyone's view. You need to remember this data dumped most likely killed people, or at a minimum put many in harms way. It also opened to the world confidential Embassy transmission etc etc.

Where you are wrong in your interpretation of the Constitution, is the Government is not open to the world, but we elect officials to represent the citizens of their areas, so are representatives take on that role of informed as it is their job to do everything in the best interest of their constituents, if not then the constituents elect someone else to do the job.

Listen to me and think for once, I am British and I love your nation for the price it paid to help mine but I have seen in my lifetime which is just shy of 50 years your nation going DOWN, your right's being infringed and ignored and your role as a paragon of Freedom and a defender and policeman of the world lost while your military has been abused by at least two of your presidents for the sole purpose of there oil company aka Iraq (well actually the first gulf war was more than justified and Saddam had to be brought back on a leash which he was most effectively so maybe I am being a tad bit unfair to Bush Snr).

Does your Government have an open door policy to the world. Can you or I just walk into MI6 and say "what's shaking boys". I understand your point an agree with some, but once again it has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

The two wars were not about oil... they were about control...And we do not want to be the policemen of the world anymore, the world doesn't care one way or the other. You might suggest America is heading in the wrong direction, but that is not fully correct..THE WORLD is heading in the same direction.

I do however agree with Trump were China is concerned but I think it is too little and FAR too late - the cat as we say is well and truly out of the bag and China is now well nigh an unstoppable force with only genuine military conflict being the one thing that can stop them and no one in there right mind want's to go to war with a nuclear armed nation so if Trump's successor keeps up the pressure expect a raft of new proxy wars as happened with the Russian's and millions dead as a consequence but the only other option is to let your nation slip into second, then third and then fourth place on the global power and influence ranking as China, India and Russia catch up and each of those nations has a far higher population so once they are rich enough and have lifted enough of there people out of poverty they will consume more than the US and become more important markets as a consequence of this.

We can agree on all this... China is the most dangerous country in the world, India will go to war with Pakistan first and Russia gets a lot more credit then they deserve. They could not win any real conventional war with any true power in the world. They would get their ass handed to them very quickly and they know it.

Meanwhile your security services are chasing after a sickly man whom they have tried to frame for rape to get him extradited in the past and whom as he is not one of your citizens has not actually broken any of your laws - though that information could be argued to be stolen intellectual property and therefore make him a thief though that type of theft anywhere but in the US and China is usually a civil and not a state matter.

Actually it was Sweden that wants him for sexual offenses like not using a rubber...lol only in Sweden I guess. As I said before much of this comes down to his involvement as to how much help did he give Manning to get the information. Someone helped him/her/it to access areas out of his/her clearance range. Hacking is a crime in any country...Stealing states secrets is espionage in any country and the death penalty in many, so we are not talking stealing intellectual property in any way, we are talking State Secrets, huge difference.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well the UK as reportedly signed his extradition papers so it is in the US hand's now, I still feel sorry for the guy though I also feel sorry for the lives of any operatives whom were only doing there duty that may have lost there lives as well as sources in those nations those papers may have directly or indirectly identified whom may also have lost there lives as a result.

I Still don't think gagging the press during peacetime is a good thing to do though, during wartime it is a different matter entirely as loose lip's sink ship's a phrase from my country and from the second world war aptly point's out.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Well the UK as reportedly signed his extradition papers so it is in the US hand's now,

You've read the report too hastily. The papers that were signed authorise the beginning of the judicial process in the UK courts, but still have to be tested there. The case is still some way from being "in U.S. hands".

From the source in the other thread;

UK Home Secretary Sajid Javid said he signed the papers on Wednesday, a day after the US Justice Department formally asked Britain to extradite the 47-year-old Australian.

"There is an extradition request from the US that is before the courts tomorrow but yesterday I signed the extradition order and certified it and that will be going in front of the courts tomorrow," he added.

P.S. I've just seen on the television news that the full hearing will take place in February 2020.