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NEWS: Quebec Premier Charest calls for stronger NAFTA modelled on EU

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posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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The Premier of Quebec Jean Charest has called for closer North American ties. Moving beyond the 10 year old North American Free Trade Agreement, he feels that an economic union modeled after that in the European Union is needed. He further added that the current NAFTA agreement is not working and change was needed. He also expressed displeasure at the U.S. governments ignoring the settlement system on trade disputes.

 



story.news.yahoo.com
BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - Quebec Premier Jean Charest called Thursday for closer economic and trade ties between Canada, Mexico and the United States, saying the three North American countries should take the European Union as an example of closer integration.


Charest, in Brussels attending a conference on federalism, said the 10-year old North American Free Trade Agreement needed to be strengthened, adding the current deal was not working.

"NAFTA has become a question mark for many of us," Charest said.

He said Washington was ignoring NAFTA's dispute settlement system, which rules on trade disputes like the import of cheaper Canadian softwood lumber into the United States, which Washington has long argued was a product unfairly subsidized.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


On paper the thought of integrating North America's economies looks good. However, after that the implementation gets a bit harder. However, the advantages would be great and North America united ala the E.U. would be a force both militarily and economically to be reckoned with. With the natural resources of Canada, the agriculture of Mexico and the U.S., it would be hard to beat.


[edit on 3/3/05 by FredT]




posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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oh, charest, charest! The betrayal! Don't you remember who crippled our beef and lumber bussinesses as political coin? What Canada needs is OUT of NAFTA, and new trade deals with other countries.

DE



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Ah typical Canadian Liberal, how do they want to sell us out now...Jean Charest has little to no say in this matter, and I can tell you if the North American Trade Union becomes a reality Quebec will seperate shortly thereafter, and I will be moving to the new Quebec Nation. NAFTA did not turn out well for us, what makes Liberals assume that going even further into the pocket of Corporate America will do what NAFTA did not, and that is create a true Free Trade zone. Too bad Free Trade is a scam... like a pyramid scheme really, it sounds good on paper but in practice it fails miserably.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 01:27 PM
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All moot, signifying nothing. Terms for NAFTA's expansion were built into the original agreement, the deadline's up and we're in the home stretch.

...All that's left to attend to are a few small matters of "harmonization" like immigration and security.

It's a done deal sports fans. They're just getting around to telling us about it.

.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
I can tell you if the North American Trade Union becomes a reality Quebec will seperate shortly thereafter, and I will be moving to the new Quebec Nation. NAFTA did not turn out well for us, what makes Liberals assume that going even further into the pocket of Corporate America will do what NAFTA did not, and that is create a true Free Trade zone. Too bad Free Trade is a scam... like a pyramid scheme really, it sounds good on paper but in practice it fails miserably.


I'll be right on your heels. This kind of move I expected from the Conservatives, since they, in essence, want to make Canada like the states. Strange.

NAFTA did little but put short-term gains into our pocket, only to make us desperately dependent on US bussiness. Now, the US is doing- as it always does- what it wants, consequences be damned. They ahev violated the terms of NAFTA again and again. How can people say it's a good thing?

Quebec Free State, here I come.

DE



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
All moot, signifying nothing. Terms for NAFTA's expansion were built into the original agreement, the deadline's up and we're in the home stretch.


Well looks like I need to do some reading. Ill admit my knowledge of NAFTA is pretty slim. Well, economic unions really do seem the way to go and no doubt it will have long term benifits.

I need to do some reading for sure.

Deus, this is not a attack at Qubec, but does it have the infrastructure and the economy to really sustain itself as a stand alone country?

[edit on 3/3/05 by FredT]



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Heck why don't teh Quebecois just cede from canada and become a US Territory?



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Deus, this is not a attack at Qubec, but does it have the infrastructure and the economy to really sustain itself as a stand alone country?


Maybe, maybe not. Quebec is a big province and has quite a bit of resources to leverage itself as a country in its own right.

en.wikipedia.org...




The St. Lawrence River Valley is a fertile agricultural region, producing dairy products, fruit, vegetables, maple sugar (Quebec is the world's largest producer), and livestock.

North of the St. Lawrence River Valley, the territory of Quebec is extremely rich in resources in its coniferous forests, lakes, and rivers—pulp and paper, lumber, and hydroelectricity are still some of the province's most important industries.

High-tech industries are very important around Montreal. It includes the aerospace companies like jet manufacturer Bombardier, the jet engine company Pratt and Withney and the flight simulator builder CAE. Those companies and other major subcontractors make Quebec the fourth biggest player worldwide in the aviation industry.


en.wikipedia.org...




Quebec has a modern post-industrial economy with a positive trade balance. Since the signing of the free trade agreement between Canada and the United States in 1987, Quebec exports to the American republic have exploded.

In 2002, Quebec had a GDP per capita of US$27,601. It imported US$83.363 billion of goods and services and exported US$92.195 billion. Approximately 85 per cent of all Quebec exports go to the United States.
....
In 2002, Quebec had international product exports of US$68.245 billion. (Source: Institut de la statistique du Québec (ISQ) and Statistics Canada (SC))

* Food products: US$3,340 million
* Wood and paper: US$9,902 million
* Textiles and clothes: US$3,045 million
* Minerals and mineral products: US$10,598 million
* Chemicals and petrochemical products: US$3,877 million
* Machinery and tools: US$4,581 million
* Transport material: US$15,750 million
* Electrical, electronics, and telecom products: US$7,172 million
* Electricity: US$832 million
* Uncategorized products: US$9,146 million



If seperation occurs, it will have a dampening effect on the Economy(Quebecs Economy that is), I personally do not think it will lead to economic ruin as was predicted when the referendums took place. Another province that could become a country in its own right is Ontario, but is it way to Liberal to even consider that option. Maybe Toronto should break off from the Commonwealth, our last Mayor threatend to do such a thing, as its perfectly legal for a city to govern itself as a country.




Heck why don't teh Quebecois just cede from canada and become a US Territory?


Because Quebecers dislike Americans and the USA alot more then the average Canadian
You mention Bush in Montreal in a good way, you're looking for trouble heh.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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Um, I'm gonna have to hold my tongue on this one. I've lost too many points already for being a jerk.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Um, I'm gonna have to hold my tongue on this one. I've lost too many points already for being a jerk.


No need to hold back, just keep the T&C of the site in mind. Its agood topic and could be a lively debate. Go for it!



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Deus, this is not a attack at Qubec, but does it have the infrastructure and the economy to really sustain itself as a stand alone country?


It has the resources and most of the infrastructure to head out on its own, but the internal economy needs quite a bit of work. the transportation infrastructure needs more work, and there are a fair amount of untapped resources. It would be hard at first -much like any new-found nation's struggle for indepedence- but they could make it.

DE



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Actually most of these "untapped resources" are on Native land. They don't want to separate. Quebec gets too many handouts from Canada as it is. For example: they just got more free daycare & maternity leave benefits than the rest of Canada; CTV newsnet. Bombardier would die. The majority of English speakers would move to Ontario. Quebec has the lowest # of birthrates in Canada, Quebec separtists want to keep the Canadian Currency, military, but think they can walk away from their fair share of the debt. Now come on flame me.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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I don't see any benefit to the United States n any sort of political or economic integration with Canada and especially Mexico.

Look what happened to Germany's economy when it absorbed the old DDR!

Mexico doesn't have a good enough agricultural infrastructure to even feed its own citizens, while the United States is the breadbasket to the world.

Mexico's low wages mean it can export goods at a good price to us, and our continued buying of those goods -- as well as our building additional maquiladoras -- is already creating a Mexican middle class.

And I don't see any benefit to integrating either Canada or Quebec* into the US. The Maritimes are an economic basket case, the Prairie Provinces don't bring anything to the party that we don't get from our own agricultural states, and both Ontario and BC have their own internationalist agenda which is quite different from ours. And since I do not want a warning from the moderators, I will not analyze la Belle Province, thank you very much. They have been a thorn in everyone's side, eh; Je me souviens!.

So where's the benefit to us?

I don't have any problem with free trade; I don't think that the government should impose tariffs to support inefficient industries and lazy workers. But any sort of further economic and/or political linkup is a loser.

I know, I know. It's a joke, see?

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Off_The_Street]



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Actually most of these "untapped resources" are on Native land. They don't want to separate. Quebec gets too many handouts from Canada as it is.


Do you have link that shows the amount of aid they get compared to thier taxes? If the Indians can retain thier land and stay part of Canada, that has to put a damper in things.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Actually most of these "untapped resources" are on Native land.

Prove it. The whole of the Laurentians and the Arctic of Quebec can't be Native land.

They don't want to separate.

Sounds familiar, just the west wants to become the US's lapdog. Unfortunately, they are not in the majority, are they? Quebec is still bound by its treaties to the natives.

Quebec gets too many handouts from Canada as it is. For example: they just got more free daycare & maternity leave benefits than the rest of Canada; CTV newsnet

Here we go again. Maybe they value social programs, because they had already established a daycare program on provincial money. Now, the existing program is getting a boost. Sorry if King Ralph suckered you out of your health and daycare benefits.

Bombardier would die.

Bombadier is making money hand over fist. Quebec's aerospace assets are the sixth largest in the world.

As of 2001, it has 80,000 employees, and CAD 16 billion in annual gross revenue. The aerospace arm, Bombardier Aerospace, accounts for over half of the company's revenue and is reportedly the third-largest aircraft manufacturer in the world behind the giants Boeing and Airbus. From en.wikipedia.org...


The majority of English speakers would move to Ontario.

Fortunately, that is a rather small minority of the population (8%), and I'm sure other would just come flooding back in. I know I will. en.wikipedia.org...

Quebec has the lowest # of birthrates in Canada,

Annual population growth of 1.4%, which isn't bad considering it's the second most populated place in the country. Sure, the prairies have higher birthrates... oh no, they don't. Both manitoba and saskatchewan have NEGATIVE population growth, while alberta has a massive groth factor with about half the population of Quebec.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


Quebec separtists want to keep the Canadian Currency, military, but think they can walk away from their fair share of the debt.

Never heard them say that. Impressive, all your allegations, and no proof. In fact, flat out lies. As for the military, part of the reason they'd want to seperate is the shoddy state of the CFs. Oh, and I'm sure you'll be having to trade for Quebec francs soon enough.

For the record, correcting your flat-out lies isn't flaming.





posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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part of quebec is owned by indians nations so they cant go anywhere.the nafta argeemeet its time to scrap free trade.wheat, lumber, meat it will not stop.canada has had it with free trade.it time to take back our jobs and press all govenments to go back to the days we had better jobs and more balanced wages.walmart can leave canada its just wasting our time and resources.free trade needs to be banned.time to get ride of polices that dont work.bring back duties at the boarder. i think large companies had a good enough free ride.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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as posted by sardion2000
...Quebec will seperate shortly thereafter, and I will be moving to the new Quebec Nation.


Certainly does not require this NAFTA announcement from Charest for Quebec to be considering its own sovereignty:
Landry expects sovereignty campaign to begin in June



seekerof



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by sardion2000
...Quebec will seperate shortly thereafter, and I will be moving to the new Quebec Nation.


Certainly does not require this NAFTA announcement from Charest for Quebec to be considering its own sovereignty:
Landry expects sovereignty campaign to begin in June



seekerof


Well what I guess I should of said is that it might actually succeed. And this time I may just support depending on what happens this year and next. Allthough I get no say votewise I will be attempting to persuade one way or the other anyone I can find who gets a vote in Quebec.

DuesEx I have got to disagree with you on Bombadier, I personally hate that company. Its a corporate wealthfare recipient, selling off thier recreation unit was the best thing they did in a Long time imo. Made quite a bit of money on the stock, future propects do not look encoraging though. If they somehow loose thier subsidies they could go belly up. They're only hope is to get into fuel cells in a big way, I saw thier unicycle design powered by a fuel cell, it looks hype. If only they can get that out of the lab and into the showroom, because I know I want one.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Actually most of these "untapped resources" are on Native land. They don't want to separate. Quebec gets too many handouts from Canada as it is.


Do you have link that shows the amount of aid they get compared to thier taxes? If the Indians can retain thier land and stay part of Canada, that has to put a damper in things.


Natives in this country pay little to no taxes. As for the resources on native land in Quebec I dunno, could be true. However if Quebec votes to seperate then well anything could happen I guess.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 01:43 AM
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The weird possibility is that Quebec would leave Canada, become part of France then France would be part of NAFTA!



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