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Dear Resistance, You're Not The Resistance, You're The Establishment

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posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

I'm just curious how you square your kindergarten understanding of what conservatism is, with the fact that we want to drastically reduce the size of govenment. If conservatism seeks to conserve the status quo, why would we conservatives be looking to change the status quo?

In other words. The establishment is big government and I want small government. Am I not a conservative?




posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: JustJohnny



Those who want to try something new are the liberals..


Socialism isn't new, but nice try. Nor is any of the degeneracy your ilk proposes. It's as old as time. It's simply failed ideologies dressed up to appeal to the negative aspects of human nature. It all leads the same place, tyranny and despair.



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: JustJohnny

I'm just curious how you square your kindergarten understanding of what conservatism is, with the fact that we want to drastically reduce the size of govenment. If conservatism seeks to conserve the status quo, why would we conservatives be looking to change the status quo?

In other words. The establishment is big government and I want small government. Am I not a conservative?


Well let's be honest it means different things depending on where it's used. Conservative's in Europe are far different from the US version.

In the US generally Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. For example provide healthcare. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense.



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: JustJohnny

I'm just curious how you square your kindergarten understanding of what conservatism is, with the fact that we want to drastically reduce the size of govenment. If conservatism seeks to conserve the status quo, why would we conservatives be looking to change the status quo?

In other words. The establishment is big government and I want small government. Am I not a conservative?


In the US generally Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. For example provide healthcare. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense.



Liberals used to believe in those things too. Real liberals still do, but sadly the liberal brand and especially the Democrat party have been hijacked by people who don't believe in any of that anymore.
edit on 11 6 19 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:30 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Oh, I know. But the resident leftists have boiled it down to wanting nothing to change ever. There are thousands upon thousands of books written on what political conservatism is in the US. But if you listen to johnny here, he thinks it can be summed up in one line and that line is: protect the status quo or go back to a previous status quo.



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Anyone that thinks the DNC or GOP rank and file are the "Resistance" is an idiot. For the most part both parties are the same. And the elected officials of those parties have more in common with each other than the people they represent.

Regardless of if the Kochs back a Dem, they still represent one of the largest problems in this country. A 1% that ultimately has more power than the other 99%.

BTW: Since the Kochs have a long history of wanting the smallest government possible, using your own logic, doesn't this mean that the GOP are no longer the party that wants a limited government? I guess a large portion of Republican and Libertarian voters are now going to be voting D.


The Kochs, or at least half of the Kochs, backed a Dem in 2016. She lost. To a billionaire that didn't spend a billion on a campaign, like she did.

Where was that power in 2016?

BTW: In most conservative circles, the Kochs are persona non grata after backing Hillary. But none of them will vote D in its current incarnation.



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite




protect the status quo or go back to a previous status quo


Like religion?



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: Chadwickus

Like communism?

My point is that we all want to protect or advance institutions we believe in. None of them are new.
edit on 11-6-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:39 PM
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How does small government equate to slave labor? a reply to: Xcalibur254



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Dfairlite

Those who want to try something new are the liberals..



In 2016 I was so disgusted with the slimy career politicians on both sides that I tried something new and voted for a controversial and sometimes plain rude New York businessman who has never held any political office...

Hey, Im a liberal!!!



posted on Jun, 11 2019 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: underpass61

and they're fighting tooth and nail to go back to the old establishment. Look they're conservatives!



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 02:14 AM
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What I don't understand why people are calling those who work for less "slave labor". Isn't that market forces making wages so low? If people and businesses are willing to agree on labor and the cost of that labor how is it "slave labor"? If there is a surplus of a commodity (such as labor) doesn't the price naturally go down until it finds equilibrium? If a community wants higher wages then they must make labor scarce and usually that is done through specialization. General manual labor that doesn't take much training is easy to find and thus people are willing to work for less to get said job. I think Trump is trying to protect labor markets here in the US by imposing tariffs, however consumers still like their cheap goods, thus you have the "I want my prices cheap and my salary high" crowd that is not willing to give up either end of their standard of living. Back in the old days it was a huge sin to buy products that practiced in sweat shop labor practices over seas, but now its a God given right and consumers expect it for their cheaper goods and services. You have 7 billion people on Earth and you have technology that is expanding each year that reduces the need for manual labor, eventually society will be brought to its knees and we have to decide how to view technology. One view is "technology frees man from labor and allows them a greater amount of time of leisure to pursue interest and wants. Second view is "technology is destroying communities and jobs and leaving people to starve on the streets". Monetary system can't allow for technology to become to great, you need customers to get money and you need workers to earn money. Star Trek and other future movies never really went into detail on how they eliminated the need for money and created a Utopian society.



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: JON666

If the Kochs had their way there would be no minimum wage or labor laws. They essentially want to be able to work people for long hours and pay them next to nothing. How is that not slave labor?



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

You forgot to mention Twitter and it's anti first amendment, censoring policies



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: PaladinRoden



What I don't understand why people are calling those who work for less "slave labor". Isn't that market forces making wages so low? If people and businesses are willing to agree on labor and the cost of that labor how is it "slave labor"?


Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, have zero protections, and can be treated as sub human by employers with little to no fear of being ratted out. That's why it's considered slave labor. Employer doesn't pay you? What are you going to do about it? Run to the cops and get deported? File a lawsuit and get deported? Same goes for every abuse an employer can push upon you. Same goes to the people who rent them living space. No need to worry about fixing terrible living conditions, the illegals can't do anything about it. They can just live in squalor.

The reason illegal immigrants are considered cheap labor is that they don't have to pay any income taxes. No social security taxes. No medicare taxes. No unemployment insurance. No federal/state income taxes. Plus they get benefits provided by the tax payer (public schools, healthcare, welfare

Simply put, they're a labor class that has no real recourse against abuse. Just like slaves were.



One view is "technology frees man from labor and allows them a greater amount of time of leisure to pursue interest and wants. Second view is "technology is destroying communities and jobs and leaving people to starve on the streets". Monetary system can't allow for technology to become to great, you need customers to get money and you need workers to earn money. Star Trek and other future movies never really went into detail on how they eliminated the need for money and created a Utopian society.


Or there's the other view, technology assists man in being even more productive and the standard of living continues to increase for those who make themselves productive and make use of new technology while the standard of living for the lazy and selfish plateau's in comparison. The fact that you referenced sci-fi shows (you know what the 'fi' stands for, right?) is an indictment of our education system.



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Well Dfairlight, not sure why you had implied my education is lacking because I made a small reference to Star Trek about how people predict future societies. Believe it or not a lot of inventions and scientific achievements were foretold in novels written decades and sometimes centuries before it was discovered or invented.

Gulliver's Travel (written in 1735): Stated Mars had two moons. 1877: Man discovered Mars had two moons.

From the Earth to the Moon (1865): Made mention of Lunar modules and return capsules. 1969: Apollo 11 did just that.

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea(1870): Mentioned electric powered submarines. 1960: Electric submarine invented.

Looking Backwards (1888): Mentioned the use of credit cards for exchange of goods and services. 1950: Credit card invented.

In the Year 2889 (1889): Mentioned airplanes and skywritting and the use of Video chat. Modern Day: Facetime

When Sleepers Walk (1899): Motion sensing doors that open when you walk near them. 1960: First motion sensing door invented.

The Land Ironclads (1903): Talked about the use of tanks in warfare. 1916: Invention of the tank and used in WW1

Stand on Zanzibar (My favorite 1969): On Demand TV, Satellite TV, Laser Printers, Electric Cars, European Union and Detroit falling into poverty.

There are hundreds more where science fiction turned into science fact. Since you brought up our education system there is one thing you prove. That education system robs children of the ability to think critically and abstractly. You believe that science fiction novels, shows, scripts, comic books are not real (and yes they are not real) but you also believe that everything in them is impossible to achieve technology wise. This proves that the education system robbed you of the ability to understand that the things used and the society people lived in are "ideas". Everything ever invented was first an idea and through research and scientific discovery it became reality. Your Austrian/Prussian Education system that was brought here by Horace Mann has done you a disservice, it robs your ability to think outside the box and thus your comment about my reference to Star Trek. The idea of a society that doesn't use a monetary system is beyond your comprehension and you feel the need to downplay it as science fiction nonsense. Not knowing the extent of your education but there was a man named Charles H. Duell and was US Commissioner of the patent office in 1899. His famous words were "everything that can be invented has been invented". History proved him wrong and history will also prove you wrong.

As for "illegal immigrants" my reference to a free market society gives equal power to both employer and employee. Employee can simply chose not to work for said employer. If employees want to unite and negotiate a balanced share of the profits then they are free to do so and employer is also free to not engage. No one has a right to anyone's labor and no employee has a right to a job, its a mutual agreement between two parties. Illegal aliens don't have to work for low wages they can simply hold out for better work or improve themselves to make themselves more marketable. That was my point.



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: PaladinRoden



Well Dfairlight


That's not how it's spelled, it's right there, spelled in front of you.



not sure why you had implied my education is lacking because I made a small reference to Star Trek about how people predict future societies.


1984 and idiocracy are sci-fi in certain ways I guess. Quite the utopia they predicted and we created....

Star trek has predicted certain technologies, but definitely not some future society.



Since you brought up our education system there is one thing you prove. That education system robs children of the ability to think critically and abstractly.


Oh, this will be good. I guarantee it's going to be a very deep thought that follows and certainly not him doing exactly what he's accusing me of. /s



You believe that science fiction novels, shows, scripts, comic books are not real (and yes they are not real)


Off to a good start, acknowledging I was indeed correct in what fiction meant. But then, the assumptions and lack of critical and abstract thought begin.



but you also believe that everything in them is impossible to achieve technology wise.


Nope. I don't believe that one bit. I'm well aware of many science fiction technologies that were only an idea or a prop before becoming a reality. Furthermore, at no point did I reference impossible technologies in my response to you.



This proves that the education system robbed you of the ability to understand that the things used and the society people lived in are "ideas".


Except it proves nothing since the statement was false.



Everything ever invented was first an idea and through research and scientific discovery it became reality.


Dropping the truth bombs! woo!



our Austrian/Prussian Education system that was brought here by Horace Mann has done you a disservice, it robs your ability to think outside the box and thus your comment about my reference to Star Trek.


Let's pretend for a moment your premise isn't fatally flawed and I do in fact believe what you accused me of believing. Thinking outside of the box is believing what you see on tv? That's your argument? I've been robbed of my critical thought because I don't believe sci-fi utopia's will exist?



The idea of a society that doesn't use a monetary system is beyond your comprehension and you feel the need to downplay it as science fiction nonsense.


Well that depends on what you mean by a monetary system. But yes, I understand human nature and the fact that it hasn't really changed much in the last few thousand years and it won't be changing much in the next few thousand.



Not knowing the extent of your education but there was a man named Charles H. Duell and was US Commissioner of the patent office in 1899. His famous words were "everything that can be invented has been invented". History proved him wrong and history will also prove you wrong.


Oh, there will be attempts at your utopias. I don't doubt that. They will just end up like the hunger games or divergent. Because that's human nature. The only way around it is to turn us all into mindless drones who never question anything but that will never last.



As for "illegal immigrants" my reference to a free market society gives equal power to both employer and employee.


Except it ignores the fact that the illegal immigrants have an advantage in the market place (cost, because they don't pay taxes) that is also an exploitable weakness (being here illegally, they're subject to deportation).



Employee can simply chose not to work for said employer.


Or they can be deported back to their 3rd world country where they can't get a job. Are you seeing the problem yet?



Illegal aliens don't have to work for low wages they can simply hold out for better work or improve themselves to make themselves more marketable.


But those better jobs are frequently watched by government entity's and have a lot to lose if they hire illegals.



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I stand corrected Dfairlite, my lame attempt at explaining low wages as a result of free market forces was completely debunked. They are indeed "slave labor". Why they get paid a wage at all being slaves and everything must be because of the generosity of the slave owner. I was under this weird assumption that the reason why wages have stayed flat for a long time was because of the abundance of labor that is willing to work for a lesser wage, either it be illegal or HB1 Visas or automation that reduces the need for manual labor. Stupid me thinking Trump's tariffs and wall idea would help raise wages by reducing the cheap labor coming across the boarder, but apparently it had nothing to do with that. I guess we need another civil war to stop this "slave labor" from being forced into bondage working in the conditions they do because they literally have no choice and its forced as the term "slave" would imply. I'm just a dumb cis gendered christian male who doesn't know anything *derp derp*



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Drop the Kochs ploy I asked how smaller government causes slavery or opression of the citizens



posted on Jun, 12 2019 @ 10:16 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Awesome! Thanks for calling it like It is, no sugar coating. S&F!



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