UK Thread for NHS discussion

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Its part of the Brexit problem is that this is going to take significant resources out of pharmaceuticals.

Research is one of those odd Brexit things for sure. We give the EU £10 and they give us back £3, and we are supposed to feel grateful? Anyway, that's another topic, eh?

Huge amounts of research goes on around universities in the UK. The culture of academia encourages reseach and attracts private and commercial funding. The government has committed to maintain research post-Brexit, so let's just wait and see. Certainly, there are opportunities to forge closer academic links with other countries beyond the EU, although most universities have global links anyway.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Those pay grades are crazy. That's what a low end starting nurse in America will make. In a few years as a nurse I will be making about £122k (I am using pounds not dollars, I converted it). That's 3 days a week working, no overtime, no nights, no stress.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And yet, looking at rates of pay in the US (which are not as high as your experience suggests), we can conclude that while US nurses get paid more than UK nurses, they don't get the types of benefits UK nurses get. Like six weeks’ holidays, decent pension, decent employment rights et al. Plus basic pay is often unreflective of actual pay because nurses in the UK often work irregular working patterns

As in everything to do with life, when it comes down to statistics any point can be proved, if you want to try and prove it.

What is clear to those who look at clinical outcomes and the cost of healthcare is that the US system is broken. So, you can pay your doctors a million dollars, but the patient is still poorly served, including the unseen patient who cannot afford proper care.

a reply to: Cymru

www.express.co.uk...
www.dailymail.co.uk...

These nest two are only related due to the nature of the supposed botch up that took place under the current system.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.dailymail.co.uk...

I have been a blood doner myself but have no intention of letting someone else have my organ's and I have a number of reason's for this that are based upon my own ethical view's and belief's.

But all around the world today there is a roaring trade in Organ's, in China the organ's of minority's are claimed to have been forcibly harvested by the Chinese state for the benefit of the Han Majority but mostly for the elite whom can afford to pay for them.

In India small children were being murdered in back street's for there organ's, all across the third world organ's are being sold by the poor which while it make's them ill to give up one of there organ's is also very lucrative and for people earning literally penny's a day with children whom are starving you can understand both the cruelty and how unethical this practice is.

An old story from France back in the 1970's, an english student was backpacking when he was hit by a car, on his person he had a British blood doner card and he was rushed to a private hospital over there, his organ's were extracted and he eventually his body minus his eye's and internal organs was repatriated to the UK, the doctors here whom made the autopsy found only evidence of serious concussion but believed the young boy would likely have recovered.

I am sorry you think it is Bollox but to be frank my opinion of that attitude is that it is wrong.

We Brit's have long prided ourselves on the NHS and it's ethical commitment but those ethic's started to fail in the 70's when older patient's started to receive less than the top care they deserved - especially as the founding generation of the NHS itself (and was an utter betrayal of the founding principle of the NHS a comprehensive 'all inclusive' health care system from cradle to grave).

We also have to remember a speech in Parliament given by the government whom founded the NHS "Do not ever let the Tory's get there hand's in this".

Now I am aware many of you will have had organ Donation's and be recipient's of transplant's yourself, I have nothing against this and indeed believe it is the right of a person to give there organ's if they so choose but the idea of a Government making that decision for me and for other's is I find utterly reprehensible and disgusting.

Remember the Organ retention scandal, the NHS still had part of my mother's hip at Alder Hey in Liverpool, she was experimented on BEFORE the founding of the NHS by a doctor Brian MacFarland and one elderly nurse whom my mother met said to her that she was one of the lucky one's whom had gotten away, she was three years of age and had globapneumonia when she went into that hospital as a child - he and his team were searching for a cure for a disease called OsteoMyalitis and while my mother was under his care she mysteriously (As did other children under his care) contracted OsteoMyalitis - it is not an infectious disease so how did this happen, years later she was told that she had been a human guinea pig, a young doctor told her how sorry he was that the man had been a butcher and yet HE was made a MR for his work, only the fact that they later found out whom my mother really was, that she had a title and an inheritance (she never received it was all stolen) did they actually panic and try to get my mother whose body they had mangled better, she was on a frame for three years, wore irons on her leg's and never uttered a word for over two years probably due to the shock of what they had done to her.

Over in Germany they prosecuted the NAZI doctors but our own one's got away with what they did before the war - when the NHS was founded the likes of him were also among the many more ethical men and woman whom formed the staff and specialists and sadly the practice of experimenting upon patient's goes on to this very day if not quite as badly as happened to my mother in those Pre War and Pre NHS day's.

a reply to: paraphi

5 weeks vacation, retirement, and shift differential for irregular working patterns were just some of my benefits. My brother in law in California is making $90k after just a few years. We live in a very low pay / low cost of living state, my wife is making about $65k after 3 years.

Not interested in a tit for tat against which system sucks more, merely commenting on how crazy low that pay is.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The pay may not be the best but that's because it's not a for profit system, people do the job to help people rather than make money. NHS staff receive around 25 - 50% from most brands, travel, services, accommodation etc for being frontline staff to make up for the lower wages.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: CthruU

British as we all know tried to concour the world - so in reality all threads are uk threads after all we're all descendants of british tyranny and occupation from way back.

That’s possibly one of the most idiotic things I’ve read on this site, and that’s really saying something.

Why?

How many countries in this world not flying the union jack on their flag are doing so without paying for their independence monetarily or with blood for running them out. You could count em on two hands.

Best you go back to your tennants lager and your fitba so you can really punish your mental health and then wait your turn for your overwhelmed NHS to medicate you back to normal.

You have no idea.

a reply to: CthruU

More 'the British are responsible for al the world's ill's' bollocks.

The UK doesn't hasn't had any real significant influence on world affairs since the end of WWII, nearly 75 years ago.

Lot of # happened since then....about time people accepted responsibility for their own inadequacies instead of trying to blame those bastard Brits for everything.

Pathetic.

And what has that got to do with the pro's and con's of our NHS?

Just another chance to have a pop and predictably repeat the vitriolic anti-British propaganda that seems to be so prevalent on ATS nowadays.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: CthruU

More 'the British are responsible for al the world's ill's' bollocks.

The UK doesn't hasn't had any real significant influence on world affairs since the end of WWII, nearly 75 years ago.

Lot of # happened since then....about time people accepted responsibility for their own inadequacies instead of trying to blame those bastard Brits for everything.

Pathetic.

And what has that got to do with the pro's and con's of our NHS?

Just another chance to have a pop and predictably repeat the vitriolic anti-British propaganda that seems to be so prevalent on ATS nowadays.

Rubbish, the thread called for uk participants only- point remains majority of people can trace their decendency back to british occupation roots. It was a of the cuff comment i thought would be recognized as such but fact remains that it's true so fact still remains that in reality we are all entitled to post on your closed shop attempt to isolate a thread as we for the most part as stated are from british descent.

A fact you cannot dispute unless your as "pathetic" as your defence in this matter.

Go back to my original post and actually read it if you want to know what it's got to do with the NHS.
If you do that you will realize that not only do you need another tenants but that i was born in glasgow and actually have a fair idea what I'm on about.

Must be a celtic supporter as from what I remember they where usually the ones who needed the NHS after a fitba match. Nae botha jimmy.

originally posted by: paraphi
A couple of years ago there was a story of a GP earning £700K. I'll qualify this by saying that most GPs are get "normal" GP salaries of £60K to £90K without expenses.

The bloke I share my semi with is a NHS doctor part time now due to stresses. Nicest man on planet earth and extremely moralistic and has actually been torn to pieces by the organisation to the point of breakdown. Anyway that was i the past. He told me he'd been offered £2,500 a day to work as a scam for something called a Locum (think thats the word) doctor but can't do it for moral reasons and takes £38,000 a year doing something else....................... He told me loads of fellow doctors he knows are scamming the tax payers upto £4,000 a day on this Locum thing! He reckons it's legal theft from the state and that they are all in on it. Fantastic person and refuses to do the same. Sounds like the system is somehow broken?

a reply to: CthruU

Of course you have every right to post in any thread here on ATS, it's an international site, I would never suggest any other.

Just pointing out that there seems to be an abundance of 'The British are responsible for everything that is wrong in the world today' posts nowadays.
I guess it makes a change from the alternative 'America is responsible for everything that is wrong in the world today'.

Both are clearly wrong.
It's about time people accepted responsibility for their own failings.

We didn't # the world up....people the world over are perfectly capable of doing that themselves.

Just saying.

Pointless engaging with you about football, you clearly know nothing about it or the 'related' off pitch shenanigans.

As for the NHS; It should be our shining beacon, something which other nations aspire to.
Unfortunately due to serial under-funding, incredibly poor management, back door privatisation, out-dated work practices, extremely poor working conditions and relatively low wages etc it has become a poor imitation of what it both could and should be.

But it's still #ing brilliant and far better than what many country's offer.

a reply to: CthruU

May I ask why you seem to think that nearly every poster on here is Scottish?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: CthruU

May I ask why you seem to think that nearly every poster on here is Scottish?

When it's really only the good looking ones...

a reply to: ScepticScot

When it's really only the good looking ones...

Good grief man, I nearly choked on my Bucky and deep-fried kebab.

Paid a flying visit to Jockshire on Saturday to see some marra's and a bit of business.
As welcoming as ever.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: CthruU

May I ask why you seem to think that nearly every poster on here is Scottish?

I don't OC, may i respectfully request you re read my posts from start to finish.

At that point i hope we don't need the NHS after another misunderstood fallout.

I always start out with correct approach and then just give as good as i get.

Surely for once you'd have to agree champ.

Otherwise I'm of to the NHS as clearly im effn mental. But then again no matter how articularly i diplomatically try to get my point across there's still those that will hate for past grudges.

I am very good at reading between the lines life has taught me that repeatedly but life has also taught me i am a minority and there are a hell of a lot of people more smarter than me but that never the less doesn't mean I'm wrong necessarily.

However the op called for a uk only thread and as my last hater correctly stated this is a international site and a great one at that but all i was saying is that end of day i came from the uk and so have every right to post while respecting his wishes to try to make it a closed uk shop regardless.

So please go back re read with a neutral unbiased mindset and then see if your politely put question is still accurate. If at that point you still think im out of order I'll unsubscribe. Yes I'll give up.

Then of to the NHS I'll go wait my turn but probably be told as usual - piss off theres nothing wrong with you stop chasing benefits you don't deserve.

Just be fair. Not many consistant opponents would offer you that.

Here's your chance show all who read what your really made of-

What's popular demand or whats right.

Balls in your court.

a reply to: CthruU

....and as my last hater.....

Whoah, steady on son, I'm no hater.

Please show me where I expressed anything like 'hatred' to anyone.

Disagreeing and expressing one's opinion isn't hatred.

I never took you for a snowflake, please say it ain't so.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: CthruU

....and as my last hater.....

Whoah, steady on son, I'm no hater.

Please show me where I expressed anything like 'hatred' to anyone.

Disagreeing and expressing one's opinion isn't hatred.

I never took you for a snowflake, please say it ain't so.

What is it then when you address someone's opinions as "pathetic" and say their using "Vitriolic Anti British propaganda", i certainly cant assume you respect or "like" my opinions.

Leaves me few options and "hate" for what I've said is certainly a viable conclusion.

a reply to: CthruU

You get from my one line post that I'm a "hater"? Rather harsh. As Freeborn says, a poster disagreeing with you does not = hater.

I did read your posts and I still don't get your Scottish fixation but back on topic, you think the NHS' problems are down to immigration?

a reply to: CthruU

Oh dear.....you are in fact a snowflake.

I think the opinions were 'pathetic' and I disagree with them.
I also think the anti-British sentiment you expressed is part of a growing trend here on ATS.

I don't particularly 'like' what you said....but I most definitely don't bear any hatred towards you.
Far, far from it.
I don't even dislike you so why would I hate someone over a few little words said on an international discussion forum?
I assure you, I have far more important real life things to concern myself about.

Hatred is a very strong emotion.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Locum shifts are not a scam, they have always been about, scam implies to me that they are in someway illegal or wrong. It's basically the hospital paying for agency staff to fill a position due to a shortage. So for example you're respiratory consultant goes off sick with stress for a month that needs filled and you can't exactly just put a add on gumtree for a temp so you go to a agency who will charge the hospital a premium to fill that position for the duration they are required.

Pretty much all health care professionals have something like this, its used really as a way to top up your crap pay for those who use them but they cost the NHS a fortune, their use is more down to crap clinical governance than it is to do with the staff who take those shifts "scamming" the NHS.