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UK Thread for NHS discussion

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posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 02:53 AM
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Hi all you fellow brits a thought before i/we get started.

WHy dont we make it unofficial UK policy to header all our threads starting - UK Thread (as i have) might even mean we eventually get a dedicated forum but if not at least we can see the 'UK' threads.

So the NHS:

I don't remember there being issues getting an appointment for a doctor or dentist going back 10-20 years or more. However nowadays you can't even find a NHS dentist in many parts of the country.

Last time i wanted a doctors appointment i had to wait 5 weeks, phoned this morning when surgery opened and managed to book an appointment for the 17th July - again just over 5 weeks.

Waiting times seem to be increasing all the time, queues of ambulances outside A&E.

The Tories have done most of the damage over the years but Labour haven't been much better and I think we are seeing the last days/years of our NHS before it is fully privatised. (Still i'm sure they'll reduce NI/Tax cont's once they have lmao)

These are just my latest personal interactions with the NHS, so was wondering if things are similar in other parts of the UK?




posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: johnb
In theory, "Regional politics" is dedicated to non-American political issues. If you look at the sticky threads there, you discover that dedicated UK and Canadian forums were founded, and then presumably combined because there weren't enough threads to feed them individually.

On the main thread issue, it could be argued that the NHS has become a victim of its own success. That is, there has been such an ever-increasing reliance upon and demand for its services, spreading out to "luxury items" like fertility treatment, that it has become cripplingly expensive to operate. Especially since the politically explosive label "Cuts!" is now applied even to a failure to increase the budget.

As for G.P appointments- part of the problem may be well-meaning attempts to make it easier for people to get emergency access to the G.P., while advance appointments are thought to be less urgent, so they get lower priority. My local surgery has at least one morning dedicated to people who present themselves on the day.




edit on 10-6-2019 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 03:52 AM
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There seems to be a lot of variance in standards and approaches used by GP surgeries.

My surgery has an excellent system and I have never failed to get an on the day appointment for anything even remotely urgent.

My wife is registered at a different surgery a few miles away (So still same health board) who use a different system for appointments and she has often has to wait or try over several days to get an.appointment.

Its worth remembering that the NHS is underfunded in comparison to other similar countries health systems, yet still provides some of the best coverage.
edit on 10-6-2019 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 03:58 AM
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There are pressure on GP surgeries due to:

a. UKs population just keeps going up! At 66 million it's ten million more people than a couple of decades ago.
b. People go to the GP for stupid reasons. Got a headache then take a paracetomol, but "no... it may be a brain hemorage, so better go and see my GP".
c. Increase in real reasons to see the GP due to demographic shifts e.g. older people.
d. Not enough GPs being trained, which is being changed in the UK at least.
e. GPs not wanting to work in some crap-hole places.
f. GPs not wanting to change how they work e.g. to divest services to more qualified healthcare staff.
g. GPs are not employed by the NHS anyway. Shocking as it may seem GPs are private practices. It's because of this some GPs get paid huuuuuge salaries. A couple of years ago there was a story of a GP earning £700K. I'll qualify this by saying that most GPs are get "normal" GP salaries of £60K to £90K without expenses.
edit on 10/6/2019 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 04:20 AM
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Increasing privatisation by stealh and chronic underfunding by successive governments are the main problems. PFI/PPP policy under Labour caused a massive funding blackhole. Under Tories 80% of 'NHS' services contracts have been tendered to private healthcare at vastly inflated costs. NHS Care (Virgin Healthcare) and NHS Direct/Non Emergency 111 number.

The postcode lottery is an annoying one. I have severe epilepsy and a traumatic brain injury but no NHS treatment is available in my county, I don't even have a neurologist, epilepsy nurse or diagnosis after nearly seven years all of which is illegal under NICE guidelines and NHS Constitution but unfortunately commonplace - consultants are upfront that there's no funding or staff in the county. If I lived 10 - 15 miles away I'd have been treated in the Merseyside Walton Centre international specialist neurological unit and placed under EEG/CCTV monitoring for a month within the first two weeks of my first seizure to give full diagnosis, neuro-rehab treatment and neuro surgery and neuro implants available as treatment to stop the seizures and brain damage that results from each one.
edit on 10-6-2019 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

You'll probably find a high number of universal credit claimants in your wife's GP area whereas yours has less, the UC system has put a massive strain on GPs as statements of fitness for work are required every four weeks until the person is declared not fit by a medically unqualified administrator.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: johnb



PFI deals 'costing taxpayers billions'

Financing projects such as hospitals privately costs taxpayers billions of pounds more than public sector alternatives, parliament's spending watchdog says.

The NAO report, which was written before the collapse of Carillion, found 716 public projects were active under PFI and its successor PF2, with annual costs amounting to £10.3bn in 2016/17.

PFI projects will cost the taxpayer a further £199bn by the 2040s, it said.

PFI use proliferated under Tony Blair's Labour government, but PFIs fell out of favour after the 2008 financial crisis, as the cost of private finance increased and as questions were raised over their efficacy.

t also said Treasury Committee analysis from 2011 estimated the cost of a privately financed hospital was 70% higher than a comparative project in the public sector.The watchdog highlighted the increased cost of borrowing which it said was 2% to 3.75% higher for PFIs compared to state borrowing.

"Paying off a debt of £100m over 30 years with interest of 2% costs £34m in interest. At 4% this more than doubles to £73m."
Shackled' to PFI


"I am concerned that Treasury has re-launched PFI under new branding, without doing anything about most of its underlying problems," she said.

"We need more investment in our schools and hospitals but if we get the contracts wrong, taxpayers pay the price."

But she said many local bodies were now "shackled to inflexible PFI contracts that are exorbitantly expensive to change."

The GMB union said it showed PFI to be "a catastrophic waste of taxpayers' money" and that it should mean "the game is up for PFI".



BUT IS IT???

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 06:08 AM
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I concur with everything you said (apart from the political bit as I'm ignorant to it I'm afraid)

But we are over run with populace increase, and have lack of staff and lack of funding.

I am currently in a waiting room now, and have been waiting 18 months for treatment (not terminal).

Regards
FA



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: johnb

I rarely visit my GP but have found the appointment process and indeed the visit sorely lacking .
My Fiancee's Daughter became seriously ill requiring days in intensive care and years of treatment .
Work signed me off (I'd have happily quit if they didn't) and requested a sick note to cover my extended leave, 10 weeks of it eventually .
I spent 20 minutes explaining the situation to the receptionist and she suggested waiting for an emergency appointment the following day and it was only a box ticking exercise given the circumstances and the Dr might not even want to see me.
I traveled 75 miles home from the Hospital we were in and waited most of the morning just to request a sick note.
When I eventually got in the Dr. didn't even know why I was there. I explained the situation (again) and he asked me all sorts of questions about her that at that point no-one was sure of as the condition was still life threatening and had not stabilised or been categorically diagnosed .
After what seemed like an eternity he agreed to an inital note covering the time already taken and two weeks more with further time if required .
His closing words were I'm worried about your blood pressure and smoking . Hells teeth , what did he expect at that point .
Sorry for the rant but I'll get to the point.
We hear all sorts about the NHS , funding , waiting times , negligence etc etc .
I saw some very professional and caring people who could not do enough for Daughter and indeed Us .
I then saw the bureaucratic debacle at the other end of the scale .
To summarise , the NHS is under funded and over subscribed but when you're up against a very unpleasant wall they're there to help and they do it very well .



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: Cymru

I think most of us agree the frontlines are doing a fantastic job and as much as they generally can.

The problem i dont really think is underfunding either its the big pharma massively overcharging supply costs as well as every other link in the supply chain. The huge management govt beaurocracy running things swallows so much cash.

Maybe it should be run on a far more local level but that would lead to even more of a postcode lottery - a tricky one to sort now for sure as there are so many vested interests and political point scoring to be done.


Also as mentioned above the fact people are living longer is not helping and I hesitate to mention the people who travel here just to use the NHS as that will just drag the thread off topic but it is a factor however small or large the true numbers are.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:04 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

PFI was (and is) a frigging disaster. Proof is any is needed that politicians should not make business decsions.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:04 AM
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a reply to: johnb

Any political administration that attempts to fully privatize our NHS will fail.

It will be the final nail in their coffin because far too many good people fought and died in two world wars for it to come about.

The people of this nation on all sides need and require such a service and without it be will be no better off than the likes of the USA.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:15 AM
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a reply to: johnb

Just to give you an idea of my experience in the states to compare. For a regular cleaning it's usually same week or next week. For a root canal it's usually 1-2 weeks. The crown is a longer procedure, it was 2 weeks if we let one of the dentists at the clinic do it, 3 weeks if we wanted our specific dentist at that clinic to do it.

Those are the longest times me and my wife have ever had to wait, with just sticking to our dentist and not shopping around for the first available slot at any dentist.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: johnb
The problem i dont really think is underfunding either its the big pharma massively overcharging supply costs as well as every other link in the supply chain. The huge management govt beaurocracy running things swallows so much cash.


"Big pharma" is less a problem in the UK than elsewhere, but there are over-prescribing e.g. anti-biotics. Plus the NHS is not really bureaucracy-heavy, and is acknowledged as being pretty efficient in running costs. Both bureaucracy and pharma costs afflict the US to a massve extent.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:34 AM
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But it's free right?

When you can get in anyway...

A serious question.
Is the medical system better or worse today than before it went to universal coverage?



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:40 AM
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There are so many problems that contribute to this.

They can all be summed up by saying "increase in demand" and "nae staff".

More people need to take responsibility for their own health, the NHS I believe does too much for example bariatric surgery or cosmetic surgery or idiots who book a appointment with the GP because they have a cold, occasional headache, "my leg hurts when I do this...it never used to". I also think that you should receive a on the spot fine if you fail to attend a GP or hospital appointment without give notice or having reasonable grounds for doing so, the money from this should go directly into the NHS just like costs for prescriptions and other odd bits we pay for.

The biggest problem though is staff.

Doctors are smart people, they are the kids at at school who got the good grades, they then head of to uni for at least 5 years and walk out with a job that starting out pays you about £25,000 and really its going to take you about 5 or 6 years before your making some decent money (around 40-50k). Its a job that involves long hours, night shifts, lots of stress, and doing some rather unpleasant jobs so why not just take the easy route and instead of studding medicine go do law or economics, pays better, better conditions and just less hassle over all.

Nursing is the same, a band 5 nurse at the top of the pay scale is on about £30k, now that's a 3-4 year degree program, lots of stress, lots of long unsocial hours doing again some rather unpleasant things. Why not become a police officer where you're looking at 38k or a teacher where upper pay levels are about 40k. Want a real kick in the teeth get this, I am an experienced nurse at the top of my banding, my mate recently got a job in the same NHS trust working in the IT department looking after a single system he gets about 8k more than me a year.

So really then why the # would anyone want to take a job like medicine or nursing where you get crap pay compared to other comparable professions, more stress, less benefits and deal with all the negatives that go with working in the NHS....I had a colleague stabbed by a guy with dementia last year!

Honestly the first thing that they could do to fix the NHS is take a few billion they are spending on foreign aid, nukes, or whatever the newest pointless IT system is and use it to pay their staff a fair wage. Its crazy to think that the guy who is operating the ventilator that is keeping your son alive is probably earning less than his geography teacher or the IT tech.

If the NHS was to look after its staff better then the staff could look after the patients better this isn't rocket science.

Look at how the NHS treats its staff....there is the answer in my mind.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:42 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

Well, it exists and is available to everyone.

It's an apples and oranges question through given the time period that has transpired and the advancements in medical science since our NHS came about.

Without our NHS through 100,000s of people, possibly millions will die.

And that's just wrong on so many levels i don't even know where to begin.

edit on 10-6-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: paraphi



I am on a couple of long term medication (tablets) nothing specialised, so I

asked to go on generic medication and was told it was not how the practice

operated.

Might be small savings, but as the old Scots saying goes *many a mickle makes

a muckle.*



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 07:58 AM
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originally posted by: johnb
Hi all you fellow brits a thought before i/we get started.

WHy dont we make it unofficial UK policy to header all our threads starting - UK Thread (as i have) might even mean we eventually get a dedicated forum but if not at least we can see the 'UK' threads.

So the NHS:

I don't remember there being issues getting an appointment for a doctor or dentist going back 10-20 years or more. However nowadays you can't even find a NHS dentist in many parts of the country.

Last time i wanted a doctors appointment i had to wait 5 weeks, phoned this morning when surgery opened and managed to book an appointment for the 17th July - again just over 5 weeks.

Waiting times seem to be increasing all the time, queues of ambulances outside A&E.

The Tories have done most of the damage over the years but Labour haven't been much better and I think we are seeing the last days/years of our NHS before it is fully privatised. (Still i'm sure they'll reduce NI/Tax cont's once they have lmao)

These are just my latest personal interactions with the NHS, so was wondering if things are similar in other parts of the UK?



British as we all know tried to concour the world - so in reality all threads are uk threads after all we're all descendants of british tyranny and occupation from way back.

Unless of course your aboriginal /indian/cherokee/etc you get my drift.

You have one of the best health care services in the world back when we immigrated out of the religiously infected brutal existance we lived in in glasgow bailleston health care was free.

So you wait a little- so what. Your problems not with your health care service its with immigration for overpopulating the system.

Isn't it.



posted on Jun, 10 2019 @ 08:01 AM
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a reply to: CthruU




Your problems not with your health care service its with immigration for overpopulating the system.



Utter bollocks.

The NHS relies on immigration, there is very little in the way of so-called "Health care tourism", for the most part immigration is actually a net benefit to the NHS.



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