UFO Leak of the Century video.

The Wilson Leak: Latest Developments. Richard Dolan The Big Picture. youtu.be...

If this document is real, then it's hard to argue against it. But is it 100% genuine?

a reply to: 727Sky

What's your opinion of damon t. berry?

I just watched his 8 series documentary, and half of it blew me away because, half of it i've seen.

a reply to: Lumenari

I do find it interesting though that a witness to something and a testimony is enough to throw someone in jail for life...

In what place on earth does this happen?

Are you talking about the US justice system? or any other Western countries justice system?

If so then you are extremely wrong.


Maybe over a 100 years ago witness testimony alone was enough to get someone in trouble but not these days

The population has been programmed to react with shock, anger and dismissiveness about the topic itself. Thus keeping the topic shut down.

NO actually the opposite,

The general population has been programmed to have aliens on there minds for many decades now.

As for me again, I will probably never get an answer on the question "are they us, or them? And if them, then what are they?" Mostly, it seems, because of people like you.

You want to find out what it was and its because of persons asking for evidence that will not make this happen?

Seriously?

If evidence is provided like that which is asked for then you would finally know whether its ours or not


You should be siding with those that want evidence and not just testimony if you want to know and not being against those that ask for proof, otherwise you indirectly support and system of mind control based on just believing testimony. Its why Ufology is religious like to many that look into it.

Many experiencers claim to want to know when in fact they don't, they just want to keep believing in the reality that have shaped with their minds and not really wanting to know.

a reply to: Visiting ESB

n thousands of courtrooms every single day, eyewitness testimony is often all there is to prove or disprove a claim. Eyewitness testimony is a legitimate means of getting at the truth and drawing conclusions.

NO its never the case.

other bits of information are available to any court case and not just witness testimony.

Because if the justice system allowed just witness testimony to convict someone with no other evidence then its witness testimony would always get a person off the charges.

If all a prosecution has is a witness saying a person was here or there and did this or that then all the defense needs is witness testimony to say the suspect was else where.

Witness testimony is never all there is in any court case.


saying so to defend UFO sightings just shows how far some will reach to keep their beliefs alive.

a reply to: 727Sky

I cringe when these types of things get fired up. Brings back the horror of Stephen Greer.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

NO actually the opposite, 

The general population has been programmed to have aliens on there minds for many decades now. 

It's quite obvious that it has been drilled into people's minds that there is nothing strange regarding ufos. That the only people who see them are drunks, wackos, attention seekers etc

You only have to look at project blue book to know that. And still, with the mounting evidence, people still refuse to take them seriously, which is a huge shame. But as with ufo believers being like a religon, the same can be said for a lot of the skeptics. Both are using their belief system to justify what they believe, or do not believe.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

saying so to defend UFO sightings just shows how far some will reach to keep their beliefs alive.

When you have radar evidence, and multiple being also witnessing thst same object in radar, then witnesess are just as important as the radar evidence. We have seen this in so many militery cases alone.

a reply to: Jay-morris

It's quite obvious that it has been drilled into people's minds that there is nothing strange regarding ufos. That the only people who see them are drunks, wackos, attention seekers etc

So Leaders of nations and other supposedly credible people are drunks wackos and attention seekers?

Yes there is a whole lot of that to make UFO witnesses seem like crazies but most of that comes from the UFO community.

In general its a mix concerning what media is viewed by the general public that they wouldn't normally visit or read sites or books dedicated to Ufology.

Mainstream Movies and entertainment over the years have suggested what you say to a certain extent while other movies and so have suggested the opposite and serious credible people see them, so not really sure what point you are trying to make but its limited to only a percentage of what put in the public's mind about UFOs

Hence why I said the general public has been programmed to have aliens on their minds.

When you have radar evidence, and multiple being also witnessing thst same object in radar, then witnesess are just as important as the radar evidence. We have seen this in so many militery cases alone.

Yes,

However, I was replying to someone about witness testimony alone along with a claim without any other form of evidence.

and explained why it cannot work that way in a court of law

But as with ufo believers being like a religon, the same can be said for a lot of the skeptics.

I think you need to look up what skeptic means or simply stop trying to create an argument when there is no argument to be had

You may have disbelievers on your mind not skeptics, in which i agree, some disbelieve peoples claims due to either prior engagements with that person or simply how their sightings are expressed, I see disbelievers of individual claims made but not disbelievers of the whole UFO phenomenon.

So again I don't have a clue what you trying to say other than you have read and misinterpreted what I said to mean something else.

Maybe you should read what the person I was replying too posted and what they were replying too which prompted me to say what I did and you may get the bigger picture about why I said what I did.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: InhaleExhale

NO actually the opposite, 

The general population has been programmed to have aliens on there minds for many decades now. 

It's quite obvious that it has been drilled into people's minds that there is nothing strange regarding ufos. That the only people who see them are drunks, wackos, attention seekers etc

You only have to look at project blue book to know that. And still, with the mounting evidence, people still refuse to take them seriously, which is a huge shame. But as with ufo believers being like a religon, the same can be said for a lot of the skeptics. Both are using their belief system to justify what they believe, or do not believe.

nothing strange about UFOs other that they are aliens which has been like I said for many decades pushed by many forms of media hence why many that do see a UFO believe it to be alien in nature or why many that use the term UFO actually mean extraterrestrial craft and not something unidentified because they identify it as being alien in nature.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

And here is why I don't care to share.

You have blinded me with your logic and what I have seen and experienced is but a dream.

So when my family and I sit down and talk about it years later we should just stop talking about it.

Because it didn't happen, right?

THIS is why I have always been quiet about it.

Because nobody wants to even compare notes, much less try to figure out an answer.

I'm done with the topic again.

I'll revisit it in another 10 years and see where people are.

I check in every 10 years or so hoping people have evolved to the point where we can talk about it.

So far it seems to be a devolution.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: 727Sky

CASH GRABBB!!! As soon as he mentioned Greer, and EdMItchell, and TTSA he lost all credibility.

I watched a video once of Greer taking a group of people who paid for a tour of UFOs into the woods and up to a large clearing, where he claimed there was an invisible UFO parked.

These people are selling stories. Made up stories. The fact that there are gov personel involved, and still not one shred of evidence for anything they have said, should be an eye opener.

Why do you follow these people? What reason do you have to believe in what they are saying? Name one single thing that could count as convincing material. (Anectodal witness stories don’t count as convincing)

But you yourself just mentioned Greer, and Ed Mitchell and TTSA, so you just lost all credibility too. Or does that only apply when other people "mention" other people's names?

a reply to: 727Sky

What a great thread. Thanks for the class of content that real ATS is noted for, and largely lost in todays political upheaval and civil unrest,.

Most of us that follow the UFO enigma have our heros, and Dolan and Knapp are certainly on the top of my list as well, along with our dearly departed Stanton Friedman and Jim Mars.

Most of the exposure we have had to this subject was initiated from the content of these authors. They have integrity with exhaustive field work to back it up. ATS has embraced them with countless threads.

We get to sit in our comfy chairs and get an education that can be had no where else.

a reply to: Lumenari

You have blinded me with your logic and what I have seen and experienced is but a dream.

Huh?

I replied to by quoting exactly what I was replying too.

It was about witness testimony and sending to prison for life.

Nothing about your sighting.

Then I quoted you saying you saying YOU want to find out what it is but may never find out if its our or not and said you should side with not be against persons that want more than witness testimony and actual evidence that could maybe answer the question you were asking.

Because it didn't happen, right?

Are you delusional?

where in my reply to you did I even hint at that?

Because nobody wants to even compare notes, much less try to figure out an answer.

You asked

As for me again, I will probably never get an answer on the question "are they us, or them? And if them, then what are they?" Mostly, it seems, because of people like you.

the only way to answer this in any definitive way is with evidence.

Comparing notes wont give you anything other finding some that have seen similar things while others have seen different things and wont get anywhere answering your question without speculation and belief that its ours or there's

I'm done with the topic again. I'll revisit it in another 10 years and see where people are.

This is exactly why I say some want Ufology to be religious like.

If you seriously believe what you saw was something extraordinary and seriously want to know you would not get upset at a skeptical point of view and actually support it because its the only way to get any answers if any will arise.


How you interpreted my post is really beyond my thinking.

I mentioned nothing about your sighting but the...... sorry to say....... stupid witness testimony thing you said.

I also replied to anther poster that said the same thing.

I also explained if all that's required in court is witness testimony to convict someone then no one would ever be convicted because if the prosecution has a witness then all the defense needs is a witness alibi.

Evidence is what is used to convict people and if definitive answers are wanted by witnesses of strange occurrences then they should be happy people are interested in finding evidence not just believing witness testimony because if that's the case and we do compare all the stories people have to tell and simply believe them, then everything from fairies to demons to metal saucer craft to black triangles to orbs of light are all here and are all different.

Yes there is lot of synchronicity in what many say but overall there is way more division in sightings which if simply believed there are countless life forms visiting earth, making contact, abducting people and performing experiments and observing and playing games and scaring and enlightening us.

If UFOs have a physical presence here, then it shouldn't be religion and belief based if answers are wanted like you say you do.

Sorry if you misinterpret that as saying what you saw didn't happen because it absolutely doesn't and is actually trying to help you see that only way to get the answers you say you want is via evidence which individual sightings don't have other than testimony which is the lowest form of evidence because of how our minds work.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: 727Sky

CASH GRABBB!!! As soon as he mentioned Greer, and EdMItchell, and TTSA he lost all credibility.

I watched a video once of Greer taking a group of people who paid for a tour of UFOs into the woods and up to a large clearing, where he claimed there was an invisible UFO parked.

These people are selling stories. Made up stories. The fact that there are gov personel involved, and still not one shred of evidence for anything they have said, should be an eye opener.

Why do you follow these people? What reason do you have to believe in what they are saying? Name one single thing that could count as convincing material. (Anectodal witness stories don’t count as convincing)

But you yourself just mentioned Greer, and Ed Mitchell and TTSA, so you just lost all credibility too. Or does that only apply when other people "mention" other people's names?

If that makes any sense to you, then you have much deeper problems to work on bud.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: 727Sky

CASH GRABBB!!! As soon as he mentioned Greer, and EdMItchell, and TTSA he lost all credibility.

I watched a video once of Greer taking a group of people who paid for a tour of UFOs into the woods and up to a large clearing, where he claimed there was an invisible UFO parked.

These people are selling stories. Made up stories. The fact that there are gov personel involved, and still not one shred of evidence for anything they have said, should be an eye opener.

Why do you follow these people? What reason do you have to believe in what they are saying? Name one single thing that could count as convincing material. (Anectodal witness stories don’t count as convincing)

But you yourself just mentioned Greer, and Ed Mitchell and TTSA, so you just lost all credibility too. Or does that only apply when other people "mention" other people's names?

If that makes any sense to you, then you have much deeper problems to work on bud.

My biggest problem is seeing nobodies with zero creds like yourself defame a national hero like Ed Mitchell and claim that when his name is mentioned it discredits someone.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: 727Sky

CASH GRABBB!!! As soon as he mentioned Greer, and EdMItchell, and TTSA he lost all credibility.

I watched a video once of Greer taking a group of people who paid for a tour of UFOs into the woods and up to a large clearing, where he claimed there was an invisible UFO parked.

These people are selling stories. Made up stories. The fact that there are gov personel involved, and still not one shred of evidence for anything they have said, should be an eye opener.

Why do you follow these people? What reason do you have to believe in what they are saying? Name one single thing that could count as convincing material. (Anectodal witness stories don’t count as convincing)

But you yourself just mentioned Greer, and Ed Mitchell and TTSA, so you just lost all credibility too. Or does that only apply when other people "mention" other people's names?

If that makes any sense to you, then you have much deeper problems to work on bud.

My biggest problem is seeing nobodies with zero creds like yourself defame a national hero like Ed Mitchell and claim that when his name is mentioned it discredits someone.

Ed mitchell has made a lot of uncredible comments over the years. I’ll not give him a pass because he did some cool stuff for a while. I’ll take each of his claims at face value because that is the reasonable thing to do.

a reply to: Woodcarver


Greer did have the meeting; this is 100% fact. The information contained in the document is 100% fact.


What is so difficult for you and the other moron, Abe F to understand; "NOT MADE BY HUMAN HANDS. NOT FROM PLANET EARTH?"


Aside from all the Constitutional, legal jurisdictional issues, and the IP now controlled by private contractors, as designed mind you, what do not understand? There is a potentially rogue operations outside the control of the branches of the USG that controls ET technology. I say potentially because corporations will make the case that they legally attained the IP and have patent rights and the USG will never relinquish the nature or provisions of such IP to those not "cleared" for those programs, even though they MIGHT be illegal.

The only question I have is about abductions. I was not cleared for any of this sh=t (if of course, what Greer says is true).

a reply to: Spacespider

These guys love to hear themselves talk. It damages their credibility IMO.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: 727Sky

CASH GRABBB!!! As soon as he mentioned Greer, and EdMItchell, and TTSA he lost all credibility.

I watched a video once of Greer taking a group of people who paid for a tour of UFOs into the woods and up to a large clearing, where he claimed there was an invisible UFO parked.

These people are selling stories. Made up stories. The fact that there are gov personel involved, and still not one shred of evidence for anything they have said, should be an eye opener.

Why do you follow these people? What reason do you have to believe in what they are saying? Name one single thing that could count as convincing material. (Anectodal witness stories don’t count as convincing)

So witnesses don't count.

A rather good way to keep from acknowledging that something is indeed out there and an explanation would be nice...

Let me ask this another way.

I've personally had 5 different UFO encounters in my life, all of them with multiple witnesses besides myself.

Not "a blinking light in the sky" or "it could be a comet or weather balloon" encounters, but multi-minute "I can describe every detail" ones.

As a child I touched one.

Now, I would really like to know the actual explanation of these things... our stuff, their stuff, if so who is "they"?

So to you is my search into the "what are they?" question just pointless and I'm dreaming it all up?

Honestly curious.

I think there are very good reasons to ignore a vast amount of eye witness accounts on this subject. Considering that this has been in the forefront of pop culture since the 40’s.

Or should we never accept any extraordinary claim without significant means to back it up? I’m not keen on that and i’m sure you aren’t either.

As far as your claims. They are not credible in the slightest bit to me. I call shenanigans and i insist you prove them, or i will simply dismiss you as someone who can’t distinguish fantasy from reality. There are plenty of those people floating around making absurd claims without the means to back them up, or the education to convice me that you are credible.

It exists in pop culture so that means millions of people suddenly started hallucinating about one specific aspect of pop culture? Why arent people telling stories that sound like HeMan or Lord of the Rings? Why is it always advanced beings in space ships? Where are all the "i swear to god this happened" stories about a sword swinging sorcery and sandals adventure akin to conan the barbarian or krull? Where are all the mermaids? Those have been in "pop culture" for quite a while now...

Your contribution is worth less than nothing to me, and your ignorance and lack of imagination is such that its actually painful for me to imagine being you. You probably scoffed at even hearing the word imagination because you are only capable of percieving it in that one nonsensical context.

Well go out and snag yourself an alien and parade it around on the tv or at least take some pictures. Until then, all you have are other people’s stories. If i’m so wrong, #ing prove it. Where is the evidence that is not stories? Why are you so sure if there is no #ing evidence?

Hey all I said is that "pop culture" argument is bunk. I don't know if theyre real or what they are. You are the one who "has all the answers" not me. Perhaps your fragile ego is not comfortable with Not Knowing something.

If your ego Must declare a victory, you're gonna need something better than "pop culture caused it". Thats really all I'm saying. You reached way out into lala land and pulled out some wild assumptions.