It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Could Atlantis have been built inside caldera of a volcanic island?

page: 4
7
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 19 2019 @ 09:34 AM
link   
a reply to: Harte

Indeed you could but of course some sites would have caught the attention of early imaginative beings rather more than others take some of the holy mountains around the world for example.

But for me Harte one of the most intriguing sites that I can not wait to see properly explored also pushes human civilization RIGHT back in time, oh not to pre cromagnon time's but still right back, a pyramid that while far from as fine or perfect a work as the Giza pyramid's is still a true wonder and is potentially well over 25000 years old.

I am pretty certain you will know of Gunung Padang in Indonesia, before research was even done on the site it attracted immediate criticism and attempt's not only to discredit the research already done but to shut down further research - thankfully this annoyed the leader of the Indonesian government so it has been ongoing if not as loudly trumpeted as perhaps it should be which of course is immediately reminiscent of what happened to Virginia Steen Mcintyre whose career was ruined because she came forward with evidence that rocked the established view of humanity in the america's and put some so called expert's opinion's into the trash bin of real lunatic fringe racist lies. ****


And no matter how primitive the structure may have been this show's evidence of an ancient unclassified civilization/culture in the area at least three time's older than the fertile crescent civilization's.


****

Remember this was still the age of the Smithsonian and there anti diffusionist ideologicaly driven policy (and remember the power the Smithsonian wielded and still does due to it's powerful benefactors).

Knowledge is power and so are lies, one is most of the time productive and good for you but the other is usually not.

edit on 19-6-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 19 2019 @ 07:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Indeed you could but of course some sites would have caught the attention of early imaginative beings rather more than others take some of the holy mountains around the world for example.

But for me Harte one of the most intriguing sites that I can not wait to see properly explored also pushes human civilization RIGHT back in time, oh not to pre cromagnon time's but still right back, a pyramid that while far from as fine or perfect a work as the Giza pyramid's is still a true wonder and is potentially well over 25000 years old.

I am pretty certain you will know of Gunung Padang in Indonesia, before research was even done on the site it attracted immediate criticism and attempt's not only to discredit the research already done but to shut down further research - thankfully this annoyed the leader of the Indonesian government so it has been ongoing if not as loudly trumpeted as perhaps it should be which of course is immediately reminiscent of what happened to Virginia Steen Mcintyre whose career was ruined because she came forward with evidence that rocked the established view of humanity in the america's and put some so called expert's opinion's into the trash bin of real lunatic fringe racist lies.

There's no evidence that Gunung Padang was any kind of architectural structure. It's a pile of basaltic columns.

And regarding Steen-McIntyre, she certainly did not have her career ruined by coming "forward with evidence that rocked the established view of humanity in the america's and put some so called expert's opinion's into the trash bin of real lunatic fringe racist lies." Her career wasn't ruined at all, in fact, as a quick perusal of the papers she's had published since then will show.
No, McIntyre was a grad student working a grunt job for the USGS when she jumped her boss's paper concerning the site at Hueyatlaco. You should probably take note that her boss, Cynthia Irwin-Williams published the entire site report - including the dates McIntyre stole from her - a couple of months after McIntyre sealed her own fate. Not an eye was blinked, and Irwin-Williams received no backlash at all for her report.

Harte



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 01:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte

I will disagree Harte, there is evidence but not evidence that you accept, I mean if an earth quake had scattered and broken the remains' of Nan Madol or it had been buried under ages of decayed plant growth that had turned to soil you might also then claim that was a natural site which it patently is not.
So very sorry but I have to disagree on that one.

As for Steen Macintyre that is new information to me, you may have mentioned it before but it never sank in so I am going to have to look at that in some more detail, very interesting though that the find's are therefore accepted but simply not from her.
Either way her name has become synonymous with an alleged cover up over the dating and claim's that she was fired for revealing that dating.
Either way she claimed it was HER research so?.
And while I know you are not a fan of this site and many of it's facts are questionable it is still the most prolific site to show up in a search of her name.
s8int.com...
Some good answers to a question as to why she was fired after exposing those dates - which may have forced Williams to publish the same dates when in fact they may have been otherwise obscured or not even published so in that respect you most certainly can respect Macintyre as an early whistleblower as to dating.
And I am very sorry for your humble opinion on that matter also Harte and while I DO have the utmost respect for you I shall also have to kindly decline to agree as I believe it most certainly does put there opinion's into the trash bin.
www.quora.com...


If we were to re-date many of the find's in museum's etc (Sadly they may now be too contaminated and have been around other exhibit's also) I suspect many of the initial dates given would be shown to be century's and even eon's too young, carbon dating as you know can be wildly inaccurate as well as there is strong potential for bacteria, fire and other sources of isotopic carbon molecules to contaminate and therefore to skew that dating so I would stick to other longer duration isotope dating such as Argon Krypton dating usually reserved for stone surface dating (can never return an accurate date as the surface erodes away of course but were it is well preserved can give a rough estimate of atmospheric exposure and isotopic absorption over that time - forgive me my chemistry is rusty and I have not touched it since leaving college all those decades ago now but you catch my gist.

edit on 22-6-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 04:20 PM
link   
a reply to: LABTECH767
Link to evidence that Steen-Mcintyre was "fired."

Harte



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 05:20 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte

Obviously Harte I did not write that article and was not there, neither were you, so either of us making a statement upon that matter is subjective and is going to be flavored by our opposing (on this issue) opinion's and belief's.
That said good point and I could ONLY counter - link proving she was NOT fired.

But that said, how could we even trust link's and claim's both FOR and AGAINST that after this length of time?.

edit on 22-6-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 05:29 PM
link   
The claim is that she was fired, isn't it?
The claim has to be supported, not the negation of the claim.
I can tell you now she wasn't "fired."

Harte



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 05:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte

I am going to have to break off this discussion Harte, I don't mean to be rude you have your opinion and belief and I have mine but we have both now wandered very far off topic, only tangentially related in so far as the discussion is about ancient human intelligence and how that may or may not pertain to potential lost civilization's some of which may be even under the ocean if such unknown and ancient civilizations can be shown to be a potential reality.

So from your perspective you have won your argument and from mine I have neither won nor lost it as I still believe in the voracity of the subject and also the claim's that this lady was unfairly excluded as a result of her decision to knowingly or unknowingly break rank's over what on the surface seem's a minor discovery but a ground breaking one that proves ancient human's when and were they were supposed to have not been at that time.



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 12:21 AM
link   
Advanced ancient cultures is kind of a side issue to Atlantis, I think.

If a 10,000 year old text describes a culture as "advanced", I think that would usually mean "slightly less primitive than its peers" for those of us reading about it today.


But to be so remembered, the Atlantean people would have been very powerful in their time. Not "lasers" powerful. More like "able to attack you on your shores." kind of powerful.

And where there are stories of giants, :

anthropology.msu.edu...

"While observing some of the graves, Garcea noticed differences in their burials. Some graves appeared to be “a tight bundle of bones,” as if the bodies were squeezed into a confined space. These smaller burials were misleading because the individuals buried in them were actually quite large, some estimated to be as tall as “six feet eight inches” with dense bones, indicating that they must have been extremely muscular. On the other hand, other skeletons were much smaller, measuring to only about five feet, six inches tall. Also, unlike the previous graves, these burials contained goods such as arrowheads, beads and even animal bones. However, since neither grave contained any potsherds, they were not sure which ones where Kiffian and which ones were Tenerian."


Although this find is from later than Atlantis' time, it's clear there were a few tribes full of people who were each about the size of Shaquille O'niel. Calling them "giants" would be only a VERY slight exaggeration.



originally posted by: Harte

No, McIntyre was a grad student working a grunt job for the USGS when she jumped her boss's paper concerning the site at Hueyatlaco. You should probably take note that her boss, Cynthia Irwin-Williams published the entire site report - including the dates McIntyre stole from her - a couple of months after McIntyre sealed her own fate. Not an eye was blinked, and Irwin-Williams received no backlash at all for her report.

Harte


I am given to understand that that is considered really bad etiquette in scholarly circles. Stabbing in the back the person who paid for and/or organized the expedition by not letting them publish first.



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 08:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

I am going to have to break off this discussion Harte, I don't mean to be rude you have your opinion and belief and I have mine but we have both now wandered very far off topic, only tangentially related in so far as the discussion is about ancient human intelligence and how that may or may not pertain to potential lost civilization's some of which may be even under the ocean if such unknown and ancient civilizations can be shown to be a potential reality.

So from your perspective you have won your argument and from mine I have neither won nor lost it as I still believe in the voracity of the subject and also the claim's that this lady was unfairly excluded as a result of her decision to knowingly or unknowingly break rank's over what on the surface seem's a minor discovery but a ground breaking one that proves ancient human's when and were they were supposed to have not been at that time.

Just want to reiterate that Steen-Mcintyre's boss, Cynthia Irwin-Williams, was prepared to publish those same results, and did so afterwards, when Steen-Mcintyre published. This was the cause of her setback, not the anomalous dates.

Harte



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 11:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Although this find is from later than Atlantis' time, it's clear there were a few tribes full of people who were each about the size of Shaquille O'niel. Calling them "giants" would be only a VERY slight exaggeration.


Well, somewhat of an exaggeration. Shaquille O'niel is 7"1' and carrying a huge bulk. From the paper it says:



peoples are tall in stature, approaching two meters for both males and females.


Which is approaching 6"5' - they would still have been huge compared to most human populations, but not quite Shaq's ludicrous size. Really interesting stuff though - thanks for linking. No idea what it has to do with the Alantis legend however.

Edit to add reference:
journals.plos.org.../journal.pone.00029 95x]
edit on 24/6/19 by FatherLukeDuke because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 07:00 PM
link   
I guess giants aren't really part of the story.

Neither is super-technology. I can't find anywhere in the story laid out by Critias that he mentions any technologies being used that weren't already known to the Greek people of his time.

The only out of place technology I see mentioned is triremes (out of place for such an ancient date.) And that could just be a translation issue, of the Greeks not having a better word to describe the type of ships the Atlanteans did use.

The hot water springs would make sense on a volcanic island. (Especially if the volcano is still active.)



posted on Jun, 25 2019 @ 07:15 AM
link   
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Indeed the idea that Atlantis was home to a high tech society probably originated from Edgar Cayce the sleeping prophet as he was known.


Of course this is really stepping into the twilight zone but still quite fun.

Remember though anything we may accuse establishment archaeologist's of we can probably double that were cult's are concerned and should take there idea's with a hefty pinch of salt.



posted on Jun, 25 2019 @ 09:55 AM
link   
Nah it don't



posted on Jun, 25 2019 @ 10:16 AM
link   
a reply to: LABTECH767
It comes from the Theosophists.

Harte



posted on Jun, 25 2019 @ 01:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte

Thank you for that correction and bit of information I trust you are correct on that matter, my own belief was actually never formerly in the platonic Atlantis, well not until I saw those rather compelling (to me) argument's about the eye of the Sahara but I have always believed that the earth has had many unknown chapters of which we know very little or indeed nothing, even our claim's as to what the earth's atmosphere was like over 2 billion years ago are based on scant evidence and only draw on chemical and isotopic data from stone's which were actually likely far beneath the surface at that epoch, indeed during the snow ball earth period 2.3 billion to about 750 million years ago (ending just about 100 million years before the increasingly redundant Cambrian explosion - since multi cellular simple organism fossil's have not been found predating it - indeed from within the latter stage of the snow ball earth period) at least twice an estimated 1.5 miles of the 'entire' earth's surface was removed and ground away by glacial action since the planet froze over at least according to the hypothesis several time's completely right to the equators, this action of course was sufficient to remove any trace of extremely early ecological evolution if they occurred and leaves us entirely with no evidence to either support or disprove there existence or that such earlier evolutionary periods may have actually occurred, the only scant evidence against is that unreliable - but all there really is - claim about the earth's atmosphere during that earlier period prior to and during the snow ball earth age.

So for all we know entire races other than man could have evolved and gone extinct long before us and of course within our own species existence I actually believe that we are older than the accepted model as you know and that we could certainly have given rise to previous civilization perhaps even one more advanced than our current one - and let's be fair are we really advanced? driving head long toward our own ecological catastrophe which may very well spell the age of the current - and perhaps all - age('s) of man.

In the entire life of our world our human age, the accepted one anyway, is just a flicker of a candle, not even a page in the novel of the earth's unwritten and unknown - at least to us - entire history.

Yet it may seem merely romanticism on my part but I feel we have a legacy which goes back long before, perhaps if not joined by blood at least Cayce got one thing right we may be joined by the spirit though his idea of the world is too far beyond even my often less than standard view of the earth's history.

Evidence in the form of isotopes and rare earth metal's taken from ancient ocean sediment strata rock of early ABOVE water continent's (where these materials were formed and eroded above sea level in the atmosphere) goes back perhaps over 2.8 billion years but how long those early - proto - continent's were above water and if anything remains of them in our own continent's is purely open to speculation by those in the know as to geological theory, the last time I read up it there was a theory that at least several time's in the ancient earth's history it had created and destroyed entire continental masses due to a computer model based on current tectonic action and evidence and attempting to extrapolate it back in time, some of those ancient super continent's which almost all eventually were recycled into the earth's crust were nearly as large as Gondwanaland or Pangea.

And so for me it is more than tempting to wonder if intelligent life may have existed on the earth back then - or even visited it if life somewhere else had evolved already and achieved intelligence by that time and learned a loophole to allow them to bypass the seeming restriction that the speed of light may place upon linear modes of travel.

But even if not it remain's a fascinating and tantalizing ancient and indeed very alien world to the one we now live in today and of course if we fail to survive ourselves and indeed natural climate change prediction's then one day someone like you and me may be typing on what passes for a keyboard while staring at what passes for a monitor in some future earth wondering the very same thing's.




top topics



 
7
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join